Trojan War Happened In England.

[spankythehippo]

For those of you not familiar with the Trojan War, I'll give a brief explanation.

Menelaus, King of Sparta, married Helen. She was a looker. The Trojans sent an ambassador for some event. Paris was the ambassador. He too, was a looker (no comment). Paris and Helen decided they wanted a life of rowdy and passionate ... erm... love. So they ran away. Menelaus was pissed. He declared war on Troy. Sent all his dudes to get Helen back. Long story short, Troy died, and Helen went back to Sparta.


Now this is the interesting part. Iman Wilkens, a historian, claims that Homer, author of the Iliad, was not from Asia Minor, but was Celtic. And the Trojan War was in England.

http://www.troy-in-england.co.uk/whe...once-stood.htm

I found this one of the most interesting articles on history. But I'm more of a Norse mythology guy.

[Fisherking]

One obvious trouble with that scenario is Celtic Social Laws. Helen would have just divorced the guy and gone off with Paris. No muss no fuss. She could have even slept with him while married without it being a big to-do. No reason for a world war if it were Celtic Tribes.

I don’t know much about the Authors or their research in Geography but in the Celtic world view these things make no sense.

It is just an Englishman trying to say that his capital city is Troy in my view.

[spankythehippo]

One obvious trouble with that scenario is Celtic Social Laws. Helen would have just divorced the guy and gone off with Paris. No muss no fuss. She could have even slept with him while married without it being a big to-do. No reason for a world war if it were Celtic Tribes.

I don’t know much about the Authors or their research in Geography but in the Celtic world view these things make no sense.

It is just an Englishman trying to say that his capital city is Troy in my view.

The thing is, there is no Helen, and there is no Paris. The Trojan War was all about tin, for making bronze. The war was about resources.

Another thing that is quite interesting, is the sentence, "The face that launched a thousand ships."

Since when was Sparta a naval power? They never had a navy, even though they had admirals in the Persian War. But these admirals were on Athenian ships, because Athens wanted to be on good terms with Sparta during the Persian War. They are strictly a military state. And, according to Homer's Iliad, Troy was sacked and looted. Sparta didn't care for jewels, or gold or anything. Their currency was iron bars, to prevent theft. Spartan people were... well, spartan. That's where that word came from. They had no interests in any superficial items. They were prosperous, but only because of slavery of the Helots.

[Montmorency]

The Trojan War is usually dated to some point before the Spartans you speak of migrated into Greece. It's a bit like criticizing notions of an ancient Egyptian religion by claiming that everyone knows Egyptians thought Allah was the only god.

The Trojan-era Sparta would have been more of a grouping of loosely associated aristocrats. These aristocrats might easily have owned their very own naval craft, with which they would have sailed the Mediterranean looking for plunder and glory: the overarching motivations of a Late Bronze Age/Early Iron Age aristocrat warrior. Both plunder and glory aplenty would be found at Troy. Anyway, Sparta "only" sent something like 50 ships in the Iliad: 4%.

There isn't even total agreement on the historicity of a "Trojan War". This reinterpretation only makes it less credible. :/

[spankythehippo]

The Trojan War is usually dated to some point before the Spartans you speak of migrated into Greece. It's a bit like criticizing notions of an ancient Egyptian religion by claiming that everyone knows Egyptians thought Allah was the only god.

The Trojan-era Sparta would have been more of a grouping of loosely associated aristocrats. These aristocrats might easily have owned their very own naval craft, with which they would have sailed the Mediterranean looking for plunder and glory: the overarching motivations of a Late Bronze Age/Early Iron Age aristocrat warrior. Both plunder and glory aplenty would be found at Troy. Anyway, Sparta "only" sent something like 50 ships in the Iliad: 4%.

There isn't even total agreement on the historicity of a "Trojan War". This reinterpretation only makes it less credible. :/

But with all of the ancients, they tend to exaggerate a bit.

Also, the site of Troy in Turkey was desTROYed (geddit... heh heh) by a very inept amateur archaeologist, by the name of Heinrich Schliemann.

Exactly, the Spartans were not Spartans. They were descended from the Dorians, Peloponnesians, and migrants. So Homer was exaggerating, if there was a shred of truth to his story.

And some of the narratives in the Iliad are really far-fetched. When Achilles was about to fight Hector, Hector ran away. Achilles went after him, and circled Troy 7 times. That's quite alot of running. But there's also the story of Pheidippides, who ran from Athens to Sparta in a single day.

[Montmorency]

Exactly, the Spartans were not Spartans. They were descended from the Dorians, Peloponnesians, and migrants. So Homer was exaggerating, if there was a shred of truth to his story.

Yes, which tends to refute the point to which I replied.

And some of the narratives in the Iliad are really far-fetched. When Achilles was about to fight Hector, Hector ran away. Achilles went after him, and circled Troy 7 times. That's quite alot of running. But there's also the story of Pheidippides, who ran from Athens to Sparta in a single day.

...

What does this have to do with a "English" Trojan War? You're going off on tangents. Anyway, no one disputes that ancient epics are exaggerated in nature.

[Veho Nex]

I think Romans and Greeks during the height of their power took myths from other lands and turned them into their own. There are groups out there who believe Atlantis was really Indian in the beginning and that Alexander brought the myth of it back and turned it into how we see Atlantis today.

[Conradus]

I think Romans and Greeks during the height of their power took myths from other lands and turned them into their own. There are groups out there who believe Atlantis was really Indian in the beginning and that Alexander brought the myth of it back and turned it into how we see Atlantis today.

How can that be possible since one of the first mentions of Atlantis was in Plato's books, wasn't it? And at that time Alex still had to go to India.

[Fisherking]

The thing is, there is no Helen, and there is no Paris. The Trojan War was all about tin, for making bronze. The war was about resources.

Another thing that is quite interesting, is the sentence, "The face that launched a thousand ships."

A war over anything but women is likely. Evidence of battles though dose not make it the Trojan War.

Tell us how they put together the story. Is this just conjecture ? How did they put the story together?

[spankythehippo]

A war over anything but women is likely. Evidence of battles though dose not make it the Trojan War.

Tell us how they put together the story. Is this just conjecture ? How did they put the story together?

Which story? The Troy that Sparta fought or the Troy in England?