How being in Israel changed me.

[Hooahguy]

I arrived in Israel in early September. I came with an open mind, since I believe shutting one's mind from the start from a new experience is a bad thing in almost every case.
The first month I went with the flow, went to services in the morning, afternoon, and evening, went to all my classes, and tried my hardest to pay attention. After a month were the high holidays- Rosh Hashanah, Yom Kippur, and Sukkot. All the while I can not say that I was really enjoying the experience. After Yom Kippur I went on a 3-day hike called Yam L'yam (sea to sea) where we hiked from the Mediterranean to the Sea of Galilee, something like 60+ km. My feet were essentially destroyed by the hike since it was so strenuous, so I barely moved from my bed for like 4 days after the hike. No services, no classes.
But you know something? I enjoyed it. I enjoyed not going to anything. I sat in bed and read books, listened to music, or slept. I hobbled down to the computer room once a day to check facebook and email, and twice a day to eat something so I wouldnt starve.
Once my feet recovered a few days later and I could walk without a limp, I decided to still not go to anything. And I was happy. I was really happy to do nothing. The fact how I didnt go to prayers or any classes registered nothing but happiness in my mind. I just didnt care anymore. It was then that I began to re-examine my views on pretty much everything. I also began to surround myself with similar-minded people who attended my institution. There are few of us, and we are all quite close.

I had been pro-gay rights for a while already, but when the issue was raised at my institution, most of the people there showed nothing but ignorance on the subject. While we explained to them that it was not right to impose Jewish values on people who werent Jewish, such as being gay, they just could not accept that. They stubbornly insisted that since our Torah said that being gay was a crime, everyone who was gay is a sinner. That got me mad. I should add that the institution I am at claims to be somewhat "progressive."

Then one day we took a trip somewhere in Israel, cant remember where, and we were told the story of some Israeli soldier who jumped on a grenade to save his friends.
By then the fact that I wanted to join the US Army, and that my best friend wanted to join the US Marines, was pretty well known, and we got a lot of from it. And when I say a lot, I mean a lot. Such as alumni of the institution who had joined the IDF coming up to us to demand why we were "traitors" to our country. Speaking of one's country, I hung an American flag in my dorm room, since I wanted to show I love America in a sea of slightly anti-American rhetoric. They asked me to take it down, so me being the nice person I am, I took it down, but it took me 3 months to do it. It seems like people here cannot understand why I love the United States. In their eyes, a Jew should only love Israel, a view I vehemently disagree with.
I was really, really mad, but I dont show my anger on a daily basis since being always angry is a bad thing.
Oh, and I might add that 90% of the people who seem to hate America are going to college in the US. I really want to punch them in the face. Every one of them.

Anyhow back to the story. We were at this place and one idiotic person at my institution just had to lean over and tell my friend and I that "stuff like this only happens in the Israeli army since in the American military they only care about themselves."
We were seriously contemplating pushing him down the flight of stairs we were walking down. We were so angry that someone, who claimed to be a high school grad, could make such an ignorant comment. We spent the next week posting stories of US servicemen jumping on grenades to save their fellow soldiers on his facebook wall. Of course he claimed he ignored the posts since he cannot admit he was an idiot. We seriously think that half of the people here have IQs of under 70, they are that stupid.

It was then that I began to hate where I was. I began to hate religious Judaism and the ignorance it propagates.
Last week we had the annual talk about how much of a sin masturbation was. Of course they could not bring any reason other than religious ones, all of which can be debunked by science. Of course when people asked them about the fact how science disproves all of their claims, they just answered that we should "ignore science for a minute and look at Jewish law." Most of us (as in, my small group of friends) just got up at left at that point.

Along with my criticism of Judaism comes the Israel stuff. So some of you might have heard the stuff that has been going on with regards to Haredi men spitting on little girls who were walking to school. Then came the riots. I live about a ten minute drive from the "hot zone." Im not even sure where to begin when it comes to all this. There is so much racism and bigotry in this country that is propagated in the name of religion that its ridiculous. Last month or so, mobs of Orthodox Jews went around vandalizing mosques with anti-Muslim phrases and even burning some mosques down. Of course, this wasnt much news among the people here. No one seemed to care. Yet when one anti-Semitic guy throws bricks though a few Jewish stores in some small town in the US, the Jewish world declared it the "American Kristallnacht."
What a joke, makes me want to puke.

Im pretty burnt out right now. Im tired of being among idiots, tired of having to fake being religious because the last guys who were caught violating the sabbath were kicked out for a week, tired of being in this country where they claim to be a democracy, yet are slaves to a religion where freedom is hated.
I might post more about this later, Im just exhausted.

[Husar]

Interesting.

And thanks for sharing.

As you may know I've long thought that there are a lot of idiots in that region, especially on both sides of the israel-palestine conflict.
But I have to say my view of Israelis in general was a lot better than you portray them here.

Maybe it would help to go elsewhere and hang out with less religious people? Or is all of Israel like that?

[Hax]

Oh no, watch out, you might turn into Norman Finkelstein!

In all seriousness though, I don't think that critical self-reflection is something that comes natural to most people. Kudos to you, I think it's something people should never do. If people can recall, I used to be pretty staunchly pro-Palestinian and anti-Israeli (nearly to the point of anti-Semitism) myself, but things change, y'know. People change.

To be fair, I can imagine their paranoia; even though there are few Jews right now who actually lived during the Holocaust, I'm sure that they must have heard stories from their (grand)parents. If I were a Jewish Israeli and I heard some of the stories about anti-Semitic incidents in Europe and the United States right now, I'd be scared as well, even though the situation isn't nearly that bad. I think that's also partially the fault of Israel's excellent media apparatus, which has a tendency to focus on things that concern Jews.

That, and the fact that Israel is surrounded by an amount of countries that have multiple times threatened and attacked Israel, with the Iranian president going as far as to denying the Holocaust. I'm sure I don't have to tell you all this, but being isolated in the world you live in, with terror attacks being committed on your homeland, I'm not surprised that the people you mentioned are as hawkish and paranoia as you make them out to be.

I think the first step to finding a lasting solution is to have everybody stop pretending the Israeli-Palestinian conflict is some sort of cosmic war of Jews versus Muslims. I'm not sure what the more hardcore Jews think about it all, but the idea that the Jews and Muslims are supposed to fight eachother to the end of times exists within the minds of some Muslims currently (even though historically it makes no sense whatsoever).

So I have two questions for you:

1) In the political compass thread you said something about the "Islamic" idea of honour and Jihad. What do you mean by that?
2) With the recent riots that culminated in the vandalisation of mosques, do you think that Palestinian (armed) resistance is understandable?

[Vuk]

lol Hooahguy, I expected you to say that you heard gunfire for the first time and fainted (that happened to other Americans when my sister went to Israel...she was apparently the only one in her group who ever used a gun. There was fighting nearby and everyone panicked and freaked out).
Seriously though, thanks for posting. That is interesting. My sister had a much different experience in Israel, but she only spent two weeks there. Maybe it has to do with where you are?

[rvg]

...Im pretty burnt out right now. Im tired of being among idiots, tired of having to fake being religious because the last guys who were caught violating the sabbath were kicked out for a week, tired of being in this country where they claim to be a democracy, yet are slaves to a religion where freedom is hated. I might post more about this later, Im just exhausted.

The good news is that you have the Land of the Free to come home to.

[Jolt]

I arrived in Israel in early September. I came with an open mind, since I believe shutting one's mind from the start from a new experience is a bad thing in almost every case.
The first month I went with the flow, went to services in the morning, afternoon, and evening, went to all my classes, and tried my hardest to pay attention. After a month were the high holidays- Rosh Hashanah, Yom Kippur, and Sukkot. All the while I can not say that I was really enjoying the experience. After Yom Kippur I went on a 3-day hike called Yam L'yam (sea to sea) where we hiked from the Mediterranean to the Sea of Galilee, something like 60+ km. My feet were essentially destroyed by the hike since it was so strenuous, so I barely moved from my bed for like 4 days after the hike. No services, no classes.
But you know something? I enjoyed it. I enjoyed not going to anything. I sat in bed and read books, listened to music, or slept. I hobbled down to the computer room once a day to check facebook and email, and twice a day to eat something so I wouldnt starve.
Once my feet recovered a few days later and I could walk without a limp, I decided to still not go to anything. And I was happy. I was really happy to do nothing. The fact how I didnt go to prayers or any classes registered nothing but happiness in my mind. I just didnt care anymore. It was then that I began to re-examine my views on pretty much everything. I also began to surround myself with similar-minded people who attended my institution. There are few of us, and we are all quite close.

I had been pro-gay rights for a whole already, but when the issue was raised at my institution, most of the people there showed nothing but ignorance on the subject. While we explained to them that it was not right to impose Jewish values on people who werent Jewish, such as being gay, they just could not accept that. They stubbornly insisted that since our Torah said that being gay was a crime, everyone who was gay is a sinner. That got me mad. I should add that the institution I am at claims to be somewhat "progressive."

Then one day we took a trip somewhere in Israel, cant remember where, and we were told the story of some Israeli soldier who jumped on a grenade to save his friends.
By then the fact that I wanted to join the US Army, and that my best friend wanted to join the US Marines, was pretty well known, and we got a lot of from it. And when I say a lot, I mean a lot. Such as alumni of the institution who had joined the IDF coming up to us to demand why we were "traitors" to our country. Speaking of one's country, I hung an American flag in my dorm room, since I wanted to show I love America in a sea of slightly anti-American rhetoric. They asked me to take it down, so me being the nice person I am, I took it down, but it took me 3 months to do it. It seems like people here cannot understand why I love the United States. In their eyes, a Jew should only love Israel, a view I vehemently disagree with.
I was really, really mad, but I dont show my anger on a daily basis since being always angry is a bad thing.
Oh, and I might add that 90% of the people who seem to hate America are going to college in the US. I really want to punch them in the face. Every one of them.

Anyhow back to the story. We were at this place and one idiotic person at my institution just had to lean over and tell my friend and I that "stuff like this only happens in the Israeli army since in the American military they only care about themselves."
We were seriously contemplating pushing him down the flight of stairs we were walking down. We were so angry that someone, who claimed to be a high school grad, could make such an ignorant comment. We spent the next week posting stories of US servicemen jumping on grenades to save their fellow soldiers on his facebook wall. Of course he claimed he ignored the posts since he cannot admit he was an idiot. We seriously think that half of the people here have IQs of under 70, they are that stupid.

It was then that I began to hate where I was. I began to hate religious Judaism and the ignorance it propagates.
Last week we had the annual talk about how much of a sin masturbation was. Of course they could not bring any reason other than religious ones, all of which can be debunked by science. Of course when people asked them about the fact how science disproves all of their claims, they just answered that we should "ignore science for a minute and look at Jewish law." Most of us (as in, my small group of friends) just got up at left at that point.

Along with my criticism of Judaism comes the Israel stuff. So some of you might have heard the stuff that has been going on with regards to Haredi men spitting on little girls who were walking to school. Then came the riots. I live about a ten minute drive from the "hot zone." Im not even sure where to begin when it comes to all this. There is so much racism and bigotry in this country that is propagated in the name of religion that its ridiculous. Last month or so, mobs of Orthodox Jews went around vandalizing mosques with anti-Muslim phrases and even burning some mosques down. Of course, this wasnt much news among the people here. No one seemed to care. Yet when one anti-Semitic guy throws bricks though a few Jewish stores in some small town in the US, the Jewish world declared it the "American Kristallnacht."
What a joke, makes me want to puke.

Im pretty burnt out right now. Im tired of being among idiots, tired of having to fake being religious because the last guys who were caught violating the sabbath were kicked out for a week, tired of being in this country where they claim to be a democracy, yet are slaves to a religion where freedom is hated.
I might post more about this later, Im just exhausted.

Whoa, what a long way you have come! I still remember the new Hooahguy vehemently defending Israel and everything the country did. Obviously now you should have a clearer picture of the everyday descrimination of being a Palestinian or an Arab/Muslim living in Israel.

To be honest, in the hindsight, it doesn't surprise me that you are finding yourself way out of place in Israel. You were educated and brought up in America, which is a vast multicultural and (for the most part) secular society, whose fundational values are about individual freedom - of thought, worship, association, speech - and traded it for one country who was founded with the objective of becoming a Jewish State for Jews. Hence, it becomes one of the primary objective of the State of Israel and its society, to promote and uphold the Jewish religion and culture as the unifying factor of the whole society, and stamping out everything else which is non Jewish (Which also has religious arguments, since Jews are God's chosen people, and are therefore superior to all other races, cultures, religions, etc). Since both government and society endorse the propagation of Judaism as the most important defining pilar of Israel, it is bound to try to force any outsiders (Much more so Jews from other countries such as yourself) to comply to Jewish religious norms and values. Democracy in Israel is just an alien addition to a Jewish State, since the Israeli State was sponsored by Liberal Democratic countries right after World War 2.

So you are really feeling the differences between the American culture of tolerance and reason with which you have grown up with and the Israeli culture of compliance to Jewish religious socio-cultural norms and enforced pride of Israel and all things Jewish over and above any other connections that you might have towards non-Jewish things. Also, you now begin to see how one-sided the media can be (Especially the American one) in regards to the Palestinian-Israeli conflict.

[Husar]

In all seriousness though, I don't think that critical self-reflection is something that comes natural to most people. Kudos to you, I think it's something people should never do.

Why do you think critical self-reflection is something that people should never do?

[Hooahguy]

So I have two questions for you:

1) In the political compass thread you said something about the "Islamic" idea of honour and Jihad. What do you mean by that?
2) With the recent riots that culminated in the vandalisation of mosques, do you think that Palestinian (armed) resistance is understandable?

1) Well, lets use Saddam and Iraq as our example. Islamic ideas of honor means showing no tail to an enemy. You may show no weakness (at least according to the book I read on it). In addition, Saddam could not show weakness to his enemies in his country, or he risked being overthrown. A lot of his power hinged on the fact that he was very powerful, when in fact, he was not. So it made sense that he would go to lengths to make it look like he had WMDs to save his honor and the honor of his country, so much so that he gambled a war with a vastly superior enemy to save that.
Now lets apply that to this conflict. Israelis threw Palestinians out of their homes. There is no denying that. It was wrong of them to do that without permission or proper compensation. Because of that, they feel (and rightly so) wronged by the Israelis. They demand their honor be restored. So there is conflict, and there will always be, until, if my theory is correct, their honor is restored.

lol Hooahguy, I expected you to say that you heard gunfire for the first time and fainted (that happened to other Americans when my sister went to Israel...she was apparently the only one in her group who ever used a gun. There was fighting nearby and everyone panicked and freaked out).
Seriously though, thanks for posting. That is interesting. My sister had a much different experience in Israel, but she only spent two weeks there. Maybe it has to do with where you are?

Maybe. The area Im in is pretty modern-orthodox, so they try to embrace western values and Judaism. Though next door is one of the most ultra-orthodox centers of the world, so that isnt helping.
Also Ive fired a number of weapons so the sound of gunfire isnt new to me.

The good news is that you have the Land of the Free to come home to.

I seriously can not wait to come home. My flight is on the 28th of March, and Ill be home for 2 weeks, then I go back (sadly) for a month and a half, then my final flight home is on June 4th.

Whoa, what a long way you have come! I still remember the new Hooahguy vehemently defending Israel and everything the country did. Obviously now you should have a clearer picture of the everyday descrimination of being a Palestinian or an Arab/Muslim living in Israel.

So you are really feeling the differences between the American culture of tolerance and reason with which you have grown up with and the Israeli culture of compliance to Jewish religious socio-cultural norms and enforced pride of Israel and all things Jewish over and above any other connections that you might have towards non-Jewish things. Also, you now begin to see how one-sided the media can be (Especially the American one) in regards to the Palestinian-Israeli conflict.

Yes, I definitly see it. And I understand it. Though many Jews here are in poverty, it is worse for most Muslims. They are definitly descriminated against, I see it every day, and it is a horrible thing. While bombing innocent civilians is also very wrong, I cannot ignore what Israel has done to the Palestinians.

Though let me be clear: I am not anti-Israel- having a Jewish State is vital, and it needs to be upheld.

[Strike For The South]

Sounds terribly depressing

[Tellos Athenaios]

To be fair, I'd expect a relatively large number of “peanut” material in an exchange programme of a religious institution, by default. Reason is that such programmes have a tendency to attract “Born Again” type of people who tend to make up for their ignorance with zeal.

I also expect that your experience is skewed by the nature of the institution itself. For instance, I'd expect you to feel more at home at a secular university -- partly for the reasons Jolt mentioned, and partly because you get to see a much more broad cross section of Israel and in particular a much more secular and progressive part of Israeli society. For all claims of “progressiveness” that still means little more than allowing their disciplines to access Internet in the context of Torah study when it comes to the Orthodox Jews. They are roughly on the level of the Taliban, only without the latter's practical attitude and forward thinking outlook towards it all.

On the other hand there are plenty of ordinary Israeli's who really couldn't give a toss about whether you're a Jew or a Jedi.

[Ronin]

Good read.

I have been to Israel 2 times on business travel in the past, both times about 3 weeks in length.
And even if we were working in a IT company with a bunch of people that most people would call "forward-thinking" there was one lunch one day when the discussion got into politics, I quickly found it better just to not bring up such issues, just not worth the hassle of having those discussions.

Now if you want to talk about experiences that truly changed me......in Tel Aviv right next to our hotel, there was this strip club 'The Pussy Cat Club'....highly recommend it :P

[Hooahguy]

Sounds terribly depressing

Tell me about it...

To be fair, I'd expect a relatively large number of “peanut” material in an exchange programme of a religious institution, by default. Reason is that such programmes have a tendency to attract “Born Again” type of people who tend to make up for their ignorance with zeal.

I also expect that your experience is skewed by the nature of the institution itself. For instance, I'd expect you to feel more at home at a secular university -- partly for the reasons Jolt mentioned, and partly because you get to see a much more broad cross section of Israel and in particular a much more secular and progressive part of Israeli society. For all claims of “progressiveness” that still means little more than allowing their disciplines to access Internet in the context of Torah study when it comes to the Orthodox Jews. They are roughly on the level of the Taliban, only without the latter's practical attitude and forward thinking outlook towards it all.

On the other hand there are plenty of ordinary Israeli's who really couldn't give a toss about whether you're a Jew or a Jedi.

Agreed. I would be. Except my parents wanted me to go to the institution Im in currently, and since I plan on joining the US Army after I get back, I figured that doing what they wanted for a year wouldnt be so bad, since afterwards Id be doing what I wanted. Man I was wrong.

And I might be showing a bit of an extreme side of Israelis. Dont get me wrong, there are a lot of really nice people, its just here they are depressingly a silent majority.

Now if you want to talk about experiences that truly changed me......in Tel Aviv right next to our hotel, there was this strip club 'The Pussy Cat Club'....highly recommend it :P

I was in Tel-Aviv for one day, about 3 weeks ago. Id argue that it was the best day I had in Israel, even though we didnt end up going to any strip clubs.

[Vuk]

Also Ive fired a number of weapons so the sound of gunfire isnt new to me.

It was just a josh my friend.

[Ironside]

To be fair, I'd expect a relatively large number of “peanut” material in an exchange programme of a religious institution, by default. Reason is that such programmes have a tendency to attract “Born Again” type of people who tend to make up for their ignorance with zeal.

I also expect that your experience is skewed by the nature of the institution itself. For instance, I'd expect you to feel more at home at a secular university -- partly for the reasons Jolt mentioned, and partly because you get to see a much more broad cross section of Israel and in particular a much more secular and progressive part of Israeli society. For all claims of “progressiveness” that still means little more than allowing their disciplines to access Internet in the context of Torah study when it comes to the Orthodox Jews. They are roughly on the level of the Taliban, only without the latter's practical attitude and forward thinking outlook towards it all.

On the other hand there are plenty of ordinary Israeli's who really couldn't give a toss about whether you're a Jew or a Jedi.

Probably. Israel feels very split on a lot of things. This is the same country that has Dana International for example, so it's impossible for it to only be Ortodox Jews.

Thanks for telling us Hooah, first person experiences are always interesting, in particular those who changes your views (since you're always extra prone to keep those).

[Hax]

Why do you think critical self-reflection is something that people should never do?

Ah yes. I obviously meant to say: "critical self-reflection is something people should always be doing". My bad.

[ICantSpellDawg]

Welcome back, Hoohaguy! I am vehemently against the idea of Israel as a "Jewish State" and believe that what is going on there right now is evil. I'm glad that you have seen this with your own eyes. There are some intense videos on youtube with roving gangs of settlers abusing progressive Jews and maiming Muslims on their own lands. It is sick what that country has become, it is moving in the direction of an ignorant religious theocracy in a similar fashion to Iran. It makes me want to vomit when I hear American politicians blindly supporting this burgeoning apartheid.

[Moros]

having a Jewish State is vital, and it needs to be upheld.

Just wondering why you think that? What are the thoughts behind this comment? Out of curiosity.

[Shaka_Khan]

He added that just in case the Israeli government monitors the internet.
J/k.... I could be wrong about what he was thinking, but I think he is thinking the same as me: I read a book on the WWII holocaust and one of the first that came to my mind was the need for a Jewish state to represent and protect the Jewish people. I feel sad for the Palestinians though. I wish things were solved in a way that didn't hurt anyone.

[Hooahguy]

Just wondering why you think that? What are the thoughts behind this comment? Out of curiosity.

As Shaka Khan said, I think its important that Jews feel they have a place to go if threatened. While I personally think that modern America fulfils that purpose, not everyone might think so.
Jews need a place to be proud of, a country that can stand up there with other great countries like the US and Britain, and say "I am a first world country. I represent democracy and freedom, and a home for Jews and anyone else who would like to live here."
Unfortunately that has been corrupted by the ultra-orthodox in the name of religion.
Unfortunately the crimes on both sides of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict are very serious, and while we wish there to be peace, I dont think its coming any time soon.

[Papewaio]

Maybe a quick review of the statements of the people creating the state of Israel and what they thought of what was happening in Europe should be done before assuming that being pro-Israel = anti-holocaust.

Also Israel hasn't been recently hijacked. One only has to read in Einstein's own words why he turned down being the leader of Israel.

"I should much rather see reasonable agreement with the Arabs on the basis of living together in peace than the creation of a Jewish state. …the essential nature of Judaism resists the idea of a Jewish state with borders, an army, and a measure of temporal power….I am afraid of the inner damage Judaism will sustain – especially from the development of a narrow nationalism within our own ranks…" 1938

Strip it down to its mechanics and you have a religious apartheid. One cannot be surprised that the fruit is based on the seeds.

[Hooahguy]

So you are saying it hijacked itself from the start? Interesting.

[naut]

Hooah. Thanks for sharing the Gonzo journalism. It's a full-on experience to be immersed like that, to be confronted, ask difficult questions of yourself and the people around you. You can be immensely proud of yourself, you come across as mature and reasonable after encountering such vehement ignorance. Hat's off to you young man.

[Husar]

And not to forget that I wonder why the jews need a "safe haven", but what about everyone else?

The holocaust was bad but what are the chances of it being repeated? What about the Palestinians, don't they need a safe haven and a country to be proud of, too?

Israel is not exactly a safe haven right now because it denies other people to have a haven at all and created itself on what used to be those other peoples' haven.

The sooner all sides acknowledge that security isn't achieved by creating conflict the better.

Doesn't mean Israel should be dismantled now but a solution has to be found that gives the Palestinians some security and pride as well.

And what Psycho just said.

[Furunculus]

insightful post hooha, my thanks, the experience obviously made quite an impression on you.

you have to wonder if turning israel in to the home of every jew, as happened in the late 20th century, rather knackered the cohesive civil society necessary to sustain the ideals of the original liberal democracy........

[Hooahguy]

I have oft asked the rabbis at my institution on whether they think Israel should be a democratic state or a Jewish state, since the two cannot co-exist in the same country. Every one of them answered the latter.
Im pretty annoyed right now. In fact, I began printing out pictures of people like Thomas Jefferson, John Stuart Mill, and Washington (as well as Patton, Churchill, and Eisenhower) and pasting them on my dorm wall to make a political statement.

[Hax]

Last night, I attended a lecture about the Gaza strip. I won't say too much about exactly what kind of people there were, but let me tell you, I felt a Zionist in comparison. Death glares when I dared mention Hamas' manifest that contains anti-Jewish slurs.

The speaker (dr. Sara Roy, from Harvard) had some interesting things to say though; with the embargos on exports and imports that have gradually been put in place since the 1990's up until the siege of 2006, along with the dismemberment of the Palestinian state, in essence severing the Gaza strip from the West Bank economically, have ground the Gazan economy to a near-halt; 30 to 35% of all people are unemployed, with unemployment amongst the youth hovering around 49%. The private sectors is nearly completely gone, only the public sector has grown, with about 14%.

Of course, the problem is that once people have nothing to live for, they're not afraid of doing anything. In my opinion, the siege and blockade of Gaza is more a threat to Israel itself than to anyone else.

She also noted that the issue of Israel being a Jewish state is something the Israelis themselves should decide.

[Papewaio]

Closed as per request.