Elite Dacian skirmishers... overpriced???

[Nightmare]

So I was toying with a Getai campaign. Upgraded a barracks in one of my cities and saw that I could train these dudes (Komatai Epilektoi). Then I saw the price tag and maintenance cost on them and promptly sprayed coffee all over my monitor :-(

Recruitment cost (normal unit sizes) is 2968, upkeep is 742, and you only get 30 guys. By way of comparison, a triarii is 1623/406, you get 40 of them, the stats are better, plus they are available earlier. Also, I used my general to compare with any mercenaries in my area. Elite german swordsmen (forgot the name of them, but recruitable right next to my starting city) are cheaper, plus I think you get more soldiers and better stats.

I wondered if there was something else this skirmisher had (armor piercing ability or something), but nothing showed up on any unit description. Then I tried to put a unit of these skirmishers against various other less-costly but superior-stat infantry in a custom battle to see what would happen. Unfortunately, not only did the elite skirmishers not show up on the unit selection screen, neither did many other units I wanted to put against them.

So what's up with these guys? Anyone know the skinny? Hidden stats that make these dudes worth the price? Something? Anything?

For what it's worth, this Getai campaign looks to be the shortest campaign ever.

[athanaric]

If you're referring to Xerunoudozez, they aren't elite. Still pretty tough though. As for the Dacian guys, they have .225 lethality swords, which is equal to the better swordsmen you'll see in this game (like the aforementioned Germanic dudes). Also good morale and stamina, decent armour and a bunch of javelins.

[Ca Putt]

check this out : http://europabarbarorum.heimstatt.ne...it&unit=dacian skirmisher komatai epilektoi&text=Epi&ownership=dacia&class=any&category=any

Well they are somewhat overpriced(as many elites) but they are really neat, Kill a lot and 16 morale also helps. I would not spam them but havin 1-2 in a larger army is a good idea.

btw to fight costom battles you need to start EB via the Multiplayer exe. The singleplayer version has all the Regional units included which fill up all lines and don't leave room for many factional units. For example most factions get the Indian Guild warrior aswell as scordici which is quite off ;) With the Multiplayer version you get all factional troops and a few appropriate regional troops(troops which live within the Area of influence of the faction)

[Ludens]

I can't comment on the unit, but if you want to test them in custom battle, you need to use a different export_descr_unit.txt (EDU) file. The problem is that the custom-battle unit-selection screen displays every unit that a faction can recruit. However, the number of regional units in EB is greater than the capacity of the selection screen. To get round this, the EB team created a second EDU file for custom & MP battles only. If you use the Trivial Script to start EB, the EDU will be swapped automatically on start-up. If you do not use the Trivial Script, you need to replace the EDU file in "\Rome - Total War\EB\Data\" with that from "\EB\mp custom game edu\" - folder. Remember to switch it back to the old version (which can be found in "\EB\sp campaign game edu\") if you want to continue your single-player campaign.

[Titus Marcellus Scato]

The ordinary Komatai have a -2 mount effect against horses (meaning they are less effective against cavalry). The elite ones don't have that handicap.

So if you're short of cavalry compared to the enemy (e.g. maybe you're fighting the Sauromatae), and you really need a flanking Komatai unit that won't take enormous casualties and rout if they happen to get hit by an enemy heavy cavalry charge, then the elite version might be worth it. They've also got better armour, so would be less vulnerable to showers of arrows from horse archers, which will devastate the ordinary Komatai. The elites would also be better at storming defended walls.

[Nightmare]

I just opened my KH campaign and a unit of spartan hoplites is 2785/774. Are these dudes anything approaching spartan hoplites? They are around the same price (actually, the skirmishers are more), but a spartan hoplite is supposed to be a true elite - an "elite of the elite." And I don't even build those.

I think it's a shame this mod makes anything approaching a top tier soldier so outrageously priced that you'd be stupid to build one. In my KH campaign, I never built a spartan hoplite. Never. I'm even the richest faction in the game, but I refuse to build one. For the price, I can afford several units of the next soldier down in tier, so why would I? Can't ever think of a reason. So it takes away from the game and the fun, because I'd like to build some. They're spartan hoplites for Christ's sake - the guys we've read so much about in history, the guys who stood against all the persians at Thermopolaie (I know, misspelled), the guys who did this, the guys who did that. And the game is set up so that I'd be stupid to build them, so I don't build them.

It takes away from the game and the fun, in my opinion, when prices for fun units are so outrageous that you're actually being stupid to build one. I don't like being stupid, especially in a strategy game, so I guess part of the game (the funnest part) is inaccessible to me.

Anyway, thanks for the tips on how to get custom battles to work - much appreciated.

[Cadwalader]

If you have the money, why not just recruit them? Nevermind the logic behind it. That's just part of the fun.

[Nightmare]

I just put them against triarii in a custom battle. Triarii won handily.

I've suspected this for a while, but haven't said anything. Now I'll say it. Game units need to be rebalanced in terms of stats/cost. I strongly urge the people who created this mod to look into the issue. A starting point might be looking at upper-tier and elite units.

Thanks.

[athanaric]

Most players are just fine with the current system. Also, did you notice that Spartans have unusually high stamina and higher morale than Triarii? They're much more versatile.

[seleucid empire]

dont spartans have a better charge than triarii?? they are counted as heavy infantry rather than spearmen

[bobbin]

I just opened my KH campaign and a unit of spartan hoplites is 2785/774. Are these dudes anything approaching spartan hoplites? They are around the same price (actually, the skirmishers are more), but a spartan hoplite is supposed to be a true elite - an "elite of the elite." And I don't even build those.

Its relative, the Komatai Epilektoi are an elite unit for the Getai, therefore they are priced similar to the elite units of the KH.

I think it's a shame this mod makes anything approaching a top tier soldier so outrageously priced that you'd be stupid to build one. In my KH campaign, I never built a spartan hoplite. Never. I'm even the richest faction in the game, but I refuse to build one. For the price, I can afford several units of the next soldier down in tier, so why would I? Can't ever think of a reason. So it takes away from the game and the fun, because I'd like to build some. They're spartan hoplites for Christ's sake - the guys we've read so much about in history, the guys who stood against all the persians at Thermopolaie (I know, misspelled), the guys who did this, the guys who did that. And the game is set up so that I'd be stupid to build them, so I don't build them.

The more elite units have such high upkeeps because in reality there weren't many of them around, as you cannot restrict how many and how often you can recruit units in RTW giving them a huge upkeep to encourage the player and AI to stick to realistic numbers was the best option available.

Sure if you look at the cold hard maths they aren't the logical choice, not that this is particularly unhistorical though (the Battle of Sphacteria for example). Most people recruit them when they have the money just for the fun of having them in their armies, and certainly if your playing the KH once you have conquered Greece and upgraded the mines there you'll having so much money you will be actively wasting it to keep the bad traits at bay, so these guys are perfect in that situation.

I've suspected this for a while, but haven't said anything. Now I'll say it. Game units need to be rebalanced in terms of stats/cost. I strongly urge the people who created this mod to look into the issue. A starting point might be looking at upper-tier and elite units.

If you really care about it then why not make a submod of how you feel units should be balanced? The team is finished with EB (with the possible exception of a few bug fixes) and completely focused on EBII now.

[seleucid empire]

also pitting one unit against another in custom battle is a poor way to assess a unit.a unit of Spartans at a crucial point has saved many of my battles in previous koinon campaigns.

also im guessing the eb team made the price of elites unbalanced for historical reasons. Rome was a superpower because of its efficient way of raising large numbers of troops. thats why princples and triarii cost less than 2k while other elites cause 3k or more. the dacian elites are expensve because historically, most barbarian armies were made up of tribal levies with maybe some nobles mixed in. plus spartans were trained from birth so that would explain their high cost

[Ca Putt]

I think you've heard plenty replies to your general idea: Elites are far too expensive. And it all boils down to 3 points -
a) It's realistic as getting even better equipment is always disproportionally expensive(something represented in many games, take most RPGs skilling up from 20 to 21 costs much more xp than from 19 to 20 eventho the benefits are identical)
b) It's accurate as The costs of units in EB are not purely derived from stats but also from culture, historical evidence etc. etc. some people needed more money to rally similar troops than others.
c) It's fun as it forces you to rely more on regular troops and not spam the whole map with elites, which is just lame, silly and overly a-historic. Rome conquered ye known world with regular legionaries, not with Pretorians(like in RTW) or Antesignani, Alexander conquered Persia with Pezhetairoi not Hypaspistai, Gengis Kahn and other Steppe warlords conquerd the world with "rank and file" Horsearchers not Cataphracts, Hitler overran europe with Panzer 4, Bf 109 and regular infantry, not Tigers, Me262 and the SS, let alone the "Maus"-Panzer^^. If it were Elites(meaning troops not social class) that do all the fighting, the Roman empire would not have risen, instead the Spartans would have conquered the world until someone introduced Feudalism :D
... and we all know how it went ;)

[Nightmare]

I think there is some confusion here - probably my fault. I put the dacian elite skirmishers up against triarii in a custom battle, I did not put spartan hoplites up against triarii. I'm sure spartan hoplites would crush triarii. They'd do it cost in-effectively, mind you, but I imagine they'd do it.

The result for the dacian elite skirmishers was actually much worse, because I only used a single unit of triarii against them. In truth, I should have used 2-3 units of triarii. This means the dacian elites are total crap, because of their cost.

If you have the money, why not just recruit them? Nevermind the logic behind it. That's just part of the fun.

No. If I am intended to recruit them, then the numbers should reflect that. As it is, the numbers say DON'T recruit them, so I don't and won't.

It's not fun for me to recruit grossly cost-ineffective, sucky stuff - in other words, to hurt myself. I don't walk around during the day hitting myself in the head with a hammer every 5 minutes either.

Most players are just fine with the current system. Also, did you notice that Spartans have unusually high stamina and higher morale than Triarii?

Again, talking the elite skirmishers, not the spartans. But spartans are way, way overpriced too. And I don't give a crap about their higher morale - my units almost never break, not even entire armies of strictly levies. Or, if I have one break here or there, it doesn't really affect the outcome. I rarely enter into battles I can't or won't win.

Even if morale for my troops was a problem (it never is), I doubt the higher morale of the spartan hoplites justifies their grotestquely higher cost. 10 units of the lower end, lower moral stuff that breaks easier would still beat 1 unit of the spartan hoplites that never breaks.

The more elite units have such high upkeeps because in reality there weren't many of them around, as you cannot restrict how many and how often you can recruit units in RTW giving them a huge upkeep to encourage the player and AI to stick to realistic numbers was the best option available.

It wasn't the best option available. In fact, turning what should be great units into utterly crappy units by making them so cost-ineffective is inexcusable. INEXCUSABLE.

If they wanted to force players not to build too many of these elites (perhaps a dubious proposition in itself, but I'm not here to debate that), the best options would have been some combination of 1) taking multiple turns to recruit the units, 2) severely restricting the recruiting area for the units, or 3) severely shrinking the unit sizes of the units. See, that took me all of 10 seconds, and I came up with 3 alternatives that are better than what they chose to do - make the units so grotesquely expensive that they SUCK. Make no mistake, a unit will always suck if it costs too much, irrespective of whatever fantastic stats it may have.

It's fun as it forces you to rely more on regular troops and not spam the whole map with elites, which is just lame, silly and overly a-historic.

Maybe it's fun for you, but it's not fun for me because I simply am not allowed to build the cool units, and thus I have to play the entire game with cost-effective levy spears.

The designers of this mod had many skills and talents - many. They had imagination, they had historical knowledge, they had map-making skills and modeling skills, even musical skills. One thing they severely lacked was skill with balancing and numbers.

[Smelly Jelly]

There there... Let it go man. After all it's a piece of cake to readjust the unit stats to your liking. Always make a back-up first. Copy your entire EB folder and store it somewhere safe, like under your matras, next to your stack of porn. Then go to the EB/Data/descr_unit file, search for the unit you want to modify (ctrl f) and do it.
After successfully modding whichever unit you desire, exit and save the modified descr_unit file and copy it to the singleplayerbackupfolder in EB/.

Inside that backupfolder is another descr_unit file, you have to overwrite, otherwise the default unit stats will load.

You can tweak just about anything. give weapons armour piercing attributes, more or less arrows, unit cost, upkeep, skills etc.

[Blxz]

In fact, turning what should be great units into utterly crappy units by making them so cost-ineffective is inexcusable. INEXCUSABLE.

Hahaha, oh jeez. Your posts are getting worse and worse with every day that I check back here. What are you, like 15?
You came into this forum with all these strong opinions and demands for change. Your way of going about getting the changes you want is to basically rant and hope people listen. Its not working for the following reasons:
1- They are balanced, not to money but for intra-faction and historical equipment setup. Dudes with helmets get more armour, etc. This is not balanced for multiplayer. Some factions are indeed weaker than others. They have ways of winning a battle but it requires tactics to overcome their equipment weaknesses. This is real.

2- As bobbin said, the team have finished working on EB. If you really want to effect some changes for the future you should go and rant in the EB2 forum. Better still, don't rant and try and present your case clearly, concisely and without these wild displays of emotion. If there is one thing that I learnt from MY classes it is that being a little more rational will go a long way in making people listen to you.

but it's not fun for me because I simply am not allowed to build the cool units, and thus I have to play the entire game with cost-effective levy spears.

English fail or more wild hyperbole? Who knows. But you were indeed allowed to recruit them. You chose not to despite having sickenly large amounts of money and being the richest in the world. This actually DID hurt you since by having large amounts of cash on hand, your faction members begin to develop bad traits. Use these money sinks because they are cool and when you have too much money they can stop you from going into huge levels of corruption and vices for your leaders. A double win if I say so myself.

[Brave Brave Sir Robin]

If you wanted to balance infantry elites, give them 80 men a piece on large as opposed to 60. This would justify their cost pretty well. Its also worth noting that we are always limited by 20 unit slots for an army. So when you get insanely wealthy, your full stack can still only have 20 units. Cost effective units aren't worth as much at this point, albeit this is late game.

Oh and its worth noting that we did readjust almost all units for EB Online so that their costs are reflective of their usefulness with a few exceptions i.e. Romans still slightly cheaper with infantry while their cav costs more, though these are few and far between. If you wanted to use that edu for SP, you might like it more. That being said, I don't think upkeep costs were edited as it is meant solely for MP.

[Nightmare]

There there... Let it go man.

Nah, it's all good bro. I'm just stating the facts as I see them. At the end of the day, I have too many hot girlfriends to bang to worry too much about this stuff, heh.

However, I would be interested in making my own mini-mod for balance purposes as someone suggested above. I'd do it if there were a few guys who agreed with the problems I outlined and were willing to assist. But if it's just me alone, I lack the time or motivation to dig so deep into the inner guts of the game, plot out effectiveness charts for hundreds of units, and come up with some balance scheme. I could do it, it would just be easier on me if I had some help.

Thanks for your info on how to mod the game - much appreciated. A quick and dirty with minimal effort on my part would be to just arbitrarily take units (say this elite dacian skirmisher, or the spartan hoplite) and drop the cost some arbitrary amount. At the end of the day, it would probably be no worse than the way the game is balanced now, and would probably be better. However, my problem is the word "arbitrary."

Jut off hand, anyone know someone who knows the "theory" (if there is one, heh) on how the modders came up with the unit stats? I'm asking because it would be helpful as a starting point for my own modding efforts if I knew the idea behind the way THEY did it. For instance, it would be useful for me to know if there was some number or numbers they used - say cost per attack point or cost per defense point or whatever. I could at least think about using similar formulas as they did and merely adjusting them. The pragmatist in me prefers to start simple and prefer the smallest/easiest changes possible to achieve, well, "sanity" in upper-tier unit stats.

[Nightmare]

Hahaha, oh jeez. Your posts are getting worse and worse with every day that I check back here. What are you, like 15?
You came into this forum with all these strong opinions and demands for change. Your way of going about getting the changes you want is to basically rant and hope people listen.

Pointing out something that seems strange (amazingly high cost for a unit that doesn't seem reflective of its worth) and asking "am I missing something - a hidden stat perhaps - or is this indeed strange?" doesn't qualify as a "demand for change" or a "rant hoping people will listen" in my book.

About the only thing accurate in what you said was "strong opinion," which I only formed after getting feedback and information from the posters here, and which I don't apologize for. Before I received that feedback, it was merely "suspicion of something strange," not "strong opinion."

...try and present your case clearly, concisely and without these wild displays of emotion. If there is one thing that I learnt from MY classes it is that being a little more rational will go a long way in making people listen to you.

On the contrary, the wild displays of emotion come from butthurt people like you who come into a thread and attack people personally because you think your favorite game that you have a personal attachment to is being attacked, therefore in your tribal mentality you think YOU are being attacked, and you "circle the wagons" and attack back, mostly with personal attacks. On the other hand, I have in fact presented my case "clearly, concisely, and without wild displays of emotion." There is nothing emotional about stating the fact that the mathematics of a unit don't work out from a cost-efficiency standpoint. There is nothing emotional about stating that a unit of these dacian elite skirmishers loses handily to a unit of cheap triarii which are recruitable the instant a roma campaign is started for the first time.

Since you don't like my posts, I recommend you put me on your ignore list, which is what I'm about to do with you now, so don't bother responding to this as I won't see it. "Cya, wouldn't want to be ya."

[Nightmare]

If you wanted to balance infantry elites, give them 80 men a piece on large as opposed to 60. This would justify their cost pretty well. Its also worth noting that we are always limited by 20 unit slots for an army. So when you get insanely wealthy, your full stack can still only have 20 units. Cost effective units aren't worth as much at this point, albeit this is late game.

Oh and its worth noting that we did readjust almost all units for EB Online so that their costs are reflective of their usefulness with a few exceptions i.e. Romans still slightly cheaper with infantry while their cav costs more, though these are few and far between. If you wanted to use that edu for SP, you might like it more. That being said, I don't think upkeep costs were edited as it is meant solely for MP.

I am very interested in hearing more about this - both the "give them 80 men a piece on large" (how/why does that work?) and the multiplayer stats you are using. If you guys believe the MP stuff is balanced the way I'd like, it would be quite easy for me to just use those.

As to my using the MP numbers, could you tell me a good way to adjust the upkeeps? Off the top of my head, would taking the percentage by which you reduced the recruitment cost for a unit, and reducing the upkeep by the same amount, work?

Appreciate the help!

[seleucid empire]

Hahaha, oh jeez. Your posts are getting worse and worse with every day that I check back here. What are you, like 15?
You came into this forum with all these strong opinions and demands for change. Your way of going about getting the changes you want is to basically rant and hope people listen

Blxz i dont think you should worry too much about him putting you on his ignore list. he is probably a kid after all and hes done the same to me and put me on his ignore list after i gave him advice on how to use chariots. This guy just doesnt listen and rates units as good or bad as he wants while denouncing the eb team. And anyway, now if you post something relevant and he cant see it and keeps ranting, he'll just look stupid

[seleucid empire]

plus youve been a member of this forum for more than 3 years i can see, and im guessing youve played EB for much longer so anything you say has more credibility than what nightmare says :P

[Ludens]

Keep it polite, please. Attack the argument, not the person.

This applies to everyone.

[The Celtic Viking]

I am very interested in hearing more about this - both the "give them 80 men a piece on large" (how/why does that work?) and the multiplayer stats you are using. If you guys believe the MP stuff is balanced the way I'd like, it would be quite easy for me to just use those.

As to my using the MP numbers, could you tell me a good way to adjust the upkeeps? Off the top of my head, would taking the percentage by which you reduced the recruitment cost for a unit, and reducing the upkeep by the same amount, work?

Appreciate the help!

The MP numbers would probably fall more to your liking - for example, the Komatai Epilektoi only cost 1686 and should have 40 men on normal size there.

As for how to calculate their upkeep, well, in the regular SP edu the upkeep is 1/4 of the recruitment cost, and you should be able to use that here too. That would put Komatai Epilektoi upkeep at about 422 (1686 / 4 = 421.5 ~ 422).

Please note that if you do decide to integrate the MP edu for SP games you will also need to fix their ownership, as well as use the descr_projectiles_new file that comes with the MP edu (alternatively edit the MP edu even more)

[Nightmare]

The MP numbers would probably fall more to your liking - for example, the Komatai Epilektoi only cost 1686 and should have 40 men on normal size there.

As for how to calculate their upkeep, well, in the regular SP edu the upkeep is 1/4 of the recruitment cost, and you should be able to use that here too. That would put Komatai Epilektoi upkeep at about 422 (1686 / 4 = 421.5 ~ 422).

Please note that if you do decide to integrate the MP edu for SP games you will also need to fix their ownership, as well as use the descr_projectiles_new file that comes with the MP edu (alternatively edit the MP edu even more)

I find it interesting that half the people here think it's crazy for me to bring this issue up, and the other half have apparently found the same problem I have and have modded the multiplayer accordingly just so the game makes sense to play from an MP perspective.

Anyway, thanks Celtic Viking and others. I'm definitely interested in trying the multiplayer configs for SP. If someone could throw some simplistic instructions up here on how to do this, I'd be very appreciative (I don't even know what an "edu" is). Or do you think it would be worth it to post asking for such a mod in the main area? I'm sure someone has done this before, saving me the trouble of having to edit upkeeps, ownerships, etc. right?

[Ca Putt]

I find it interesting that half the people here think it's crazy for me to bring this issue up, and the other half have apparently found the same problem I have and have modded the multiplayer accordingly just so the game makes sense to play from an MP perspective.

not quite, I think even more people think that the stats are unsuited for multiplayer, afterall in multiplayer it's all about a fair match between two real guys/gals thus pricing has to be fair for the battle. In singleplayer you get all the AOR stuff and the question of campaign capabilities(of the unit takes close to no losses, It does not have to be replaced on campaign) and the different budgets of the factions...

The EDU - Export_Descr_Unit.txt is the textfile you'll have to edit and generally have a lot of fun with, it lingers about in RTW/EB/Data amung others which largely similar names. (like the aforementioned dpn)

This could be usefull btw: http://rtw.heavengames.com/rtw/mods/...generals.shtml

have fun modding :)

And if you really want those shiny elite units(as anyone else) the costs may be high but even a sweboz player can afford an army of elites at some point of the game. I remember having a landing party of a KH FM, 4 spartans(units), 2 Cretans, 2 Rhodians, and 2 Tracian Prodromoi, beating the crap out of the Ptolemies^^, that was fun, two of my land armies had 3 units of epilektoi each, not counting the numberous other "elite"/"overpriced" units I fielded, I already held most of my VC but hey, IF you want to train elites a good economy can cope with it.
I like to see my armies "grow" from a simple band of Haploi and Sphendoatai into regular armies of Hoplitai that with increaced wealth of the League gets some Elites.

[The Celtic Viking]

To my knowledge, no one has gone through with it, but it is very easy to do yourself. Unfortunately, it's also very tedious, as you have to go through each and every unit. Anyway, I can give you the instructions here. Okay. First off, make a backup of the single player export_descr_unit (that's what edu stands for) file. You will find it in "where-ever-you-installed-RTW\EB\sp game edu backup". This is both so you can revert back to regular EB if you change your mind, and so that you can get the correct ownership lines later. Also make a backup the descr_projectiles_new file, which you will find at "where-ever-you-installed-RTW\EB\data" for the first reason.

Then go and download the MP edu here. Unfortunately, you don't seem to get the projectiles file there, so I uploaded it myself here. Put the edu in "where-ever-you-installed-RTW\EB\sp game edu backup", and the descr_projectiles_new in "where-ever-you-installed-RTW\EB\data".

Then open both the regular EB edu and the MP edu. Press ctrl + f to search for ;487 to skip to the first unit with the differences, the African Forest Elephant. The first line to look at is the second last one which should look like this in the MP edu:

stat_cost        2, 7500, 2500, 270, 400, 7500

The first number is how many turns it takes to recruit it, the second number the recruitment cost and the third the upkeep. After that are the weapon and armour cost for upgrades, and lastly the recruitment cost in custom battles. So, to calculate these elephants new upkeep cost, you take the recruitment cost - the second from the left, i.e. 7500 - and divide it by 4.

7500 / 4 = 1875.

Then you change the third number into 1875, so it looks like this:

stat_cost        2, 7500, 1875, 270, 400, 7500

Then the upkeep cost for these beasts is done. Next is ownership, which is the line just below it.

ownership        egypt, numidia, saba, slave, seleucid

To know what it should be like, look in the regular SP edu and if necessary just copy that line and paste it into the MP edu, overwriting the pre-existing line. In this case, though, it's not necessary since the African Forest Elephants have the same ownership in MP as they do in SP.

Then you just have to go down the list and do that with every unit until you reach the end. As I said, it's not difficult, it's just tedious.

Good luck!

[Lazy O]

Instead of modding the SP why do you not simply come to the hamachi network? The networks are empty and I need people to beat up :))))

[Blxz]

Blxz i dont think you should worry too much about him putting you on his ignore list. he is probably a kid after all and hes done the same to me and put me on his ignore list after i gave him advice on how to use chariots. This guy just doesnt listen and rates units as good or bad as he wants while denouncing the eb team. And anyway, now if you post something relevant and he cant see it and keeps ranting, he'll just look stupid

No worry there at all, I guess I could consider it a victory that he blocked me =)
I still had a good laugh at the post. And I tried to offer constructive criticism. Also, no need to put anyone on my block list; I've yet to see the use for it unless someone is a known porn spammer or something similar. Still, all the power to him. At least now no one gets offended.

And by the looks of it he has found a few like minded people to help him with his modding. Although I am still convinced he is trolling, just being very good/subtle at it. =D

[Lysimachos]

It may be too late, but I still want to share my take on this.

You can never, ever command more than 20 units at the same time. So, yes, although some elite units are so expensive that you could instead recruit several decent ones, they have a use, because they will improve the performance of your 20 of choice. If you don't need elite, that's fine, but you'd be even better of with them.

The pricetag doesn't mean you are not supposed to recruit them at all. It means you are not supposed to as long as you can't afford them, but once you can, you are. There isn't a single elite unit that's cost effective compared to cheaper ones. But that's what improved economy is for.

I'm sorry, but I can't wrap my head around why you are so adamant about not being able to recruit elite units, even though you have the money for it. The campaign economy is part of the balancing (that's a reason why balancing for multiplayer is different: there is no campaign and no economy). What is the money for if not for spending it?