Mithridatic Wars- Historical note

[seleucid empire]

Hello, ive noticed that during the mithridatic wars, pontus and armenia were able to call upon huge numbers of troops very quickly against Rome
Battle of Chaeronea: 120 000
Battle of Orchomenus: 80 000
Battle of Tigranocerta: 100 000

Im going to start a pontic campaign and for role playing purposes i will use fd to give Rome greece and start a war with them on 88 BC

for my campaign if an army has 3000 men then i role play that as 30 000 so i will have four stacks at chaeronea, 2-3 at orchomenus and 3 at tigranocerta
Does anyone know the compostion of these armies?? and how the pontus managed to raise such powerful armies (considering that the seleucids and ptolemies at their height could only muster 70 000)

The qualities of these armies couldnt have been as good as those of the hellenistic kingdoms could they?? but then i read that there were scythed chariots and bronze shields present in the first two battles

[Brennus]

I consider such numbers with a pinch of salt, the old problem of antiquarian authors deliberately inflating numbers in order to excite their readers.

Im no authority on the Pontic forces of Mithridates all I know is that against Sulla he fielded a more traditional Hellenistic force centred around a phalanx (Tigranes did the same against Lucullus I believe). Against Lucullus and Pompey however Mithridates fielded a much for Roman-esque force likely heavily composed of Theuropheroi and Thorokatai. He also had some heavy Galatian infantry, at least in the last Mithridatic wars.

[Brave Brave Sir Robin]

I'm not 100% on this but I don't think Tigranes used a Hellenistic style force at Tigranocerta. The army was centered more around his force of cataphracts, 15,000 strong supposedly. I think that it was more of a traditional Persian-style, allowing various soldiers to fight in their traditional style with a crack cavalry force.

Mithradate's early armies were certainly phalanx-based and he learned the limitations of such forces during early defeats against Sulla. As everyone else mentions, later Pontic armies were based around mobile infantry.

And yes, numbers are inflated heavily.

[Ludens]

I consider such numbers with a pinch of salt, the old problem of antiquarian authors deliberately inflating numbers in order to excite their readers.

That doesn't apply to just the authors of Antiquity, either.

[Brennus]

That doesn't apply to just the authors of Antiquity, either.

Are you disputing me Ludens? I who have loved thousands of women and befriended billions? ;)

I would go with Brave Sir Robin's information on Tigranes. I will admit it is not my field of expertise.

[vartan]

The population of the Armenian half of the combined Ponto-Armenian lands (if that's how you want to think of it) is estimated to be about 20 million. You'd probably expect more Armenian than Pontic forces in their combined armies during those wars, but considering you're combining the two forces, it wouldn't be surprising if they fielded numbers greater than those by Assyrian forces over half a millennium earlier (notable for fielding the largest force until then). What would really be interesting is how you would manage to replicate the geopolitical situation of the time on the campaign map of EB.

[Dudok22]

Those numbers must be wrong. Look at this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_...eronea_(86_BC)

40 000 vs 120 000 and romans had only 12 casualties. :D

"Appian and Plutarch claim that only 10,000 of the enemy forces survived and escaped to the nearby town. They add that 14 Romans were not accounted for at the end of the battle, two of which returned at nightfall, making the Roman casualty count an unbelievable 12 soldiers. While these figures are obviously inaccurate,as the close range nature of fighting between the infantry forces must have caused heavier Roman losses,nevertheless,the Pontic forces undoubtedly suffered disproportionately heavier casualties."

[athanaric]

The population of the Armenian half of the combined Ponto-Armenian lands (if that's how you want to think of it) is estimated to be about 20 million. You'd probably expect more Armenian than Pontic forces in their combined armies during those wars, but considering you're combining the two forces, it wouldn't be surprising if they fielded numbers greater than those by Assyrian forces over half a millennium earlier (notable for fielding the largest force until then). What would really be interesting is how you would manage to replicate the geopolitical situation of the time on the campaign map of EB.

You sure that's the population number during antiquity? Seems very high.

No, I am agreeing with you. I just wanted to say that this is not something unique to Classical sources. Apologies if I was unclear.

I think he might have been facetious.

[Ludens]

Are you disputing me Ludens?

No, I am agreeing with you. I just wanted to say that this is not something unique to Classical sources. Apologies if I was unclear.

[Brennus]

No, I am agreeing with you. I just wanted to say that this is not something unique to Classical sources. Apologies if I was unclear.

Sorry, that was my fault. That joke didn't really work.

[stratigos vasilios]

Are you disputing me Ludens? I who have loved thousands of women and befriended billions? ;)

Hahaha I enjoyed this considerably!

[seleucid empire]

didnt caesar or pompey have historians with them while on campaigns??