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  1. #1
    Poll Smoker Senior Member CountArach's Avatar
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    Default Re: Chronic Fructose Exposure

    Quote Originally Posted by Gelatinous Cube View Post
    It's just dumb. Its nanny-state stuff. A better solution would be better and more accurate health classes. Instead of memorizing body parts in grade school, maybe kids should be taught the fundamentals of a healthy diet. The Food Pyramid is a pretty sad and insufficient level of instruction.
    You can't have a double standard of teaching them a healthy diet while simultaneously making readily and cheaply available junk food that goes against everything you just taught them. It makes no sense.
    Rest in Peace TosaInu, the Org will be your legacy
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    Arena Senior Member Crazed Rabbit's Avatar
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    Default Re: Chronic Fructose Exposure

    Quote Originally Posted by CountArach View Post
    You can't have a double standard of teaching them a healthy diet while simultaneously making readily and cheaply available junk food that goes against everything you just taught them. It makes no sense.

    It's called freedom.

    CR
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    The poorest man may in his cottage bid defiance to all the forces of the Crown. It may be frail; its roof may shake; the wind may blow through it; the storm may enter; the rain may enter; but the King of England cannot enter – all his force dares not cross the threshold of the ruined tenement! - William Pitt the Elder

  3. #3
    Poll Smoker Senior Member CountArach's Avatar
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    Default Re: Chronic Fructose Exposure

    Quote Originally Posted by Crazed Rabbit View Post

    It's called freedom.

    CR
    So we should allow children who don't know any better to continue to eat foods that are doing them harm for a vague notion of what constitutes freedom? By the exact same argument we could do away with a legal drinking age.
    Rest in Peace TosaInu, the Org will be your legacy
    Quote Originally Posted by Leon Blum - For All Mankind
    Nothing established by violence and maintained by force, nothing that degrades humanity and is based on contempt for human personality, can endure.

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    Arena Senior Member Crazed Rabbit's Avatar
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    Default Re: Chronic Fructose Exposure

    Quote Originally Posted by CountArach View Post
    So we should allow children who don't know any better to continue to eat foods that are doing them harm for a vague notion of what constitutes freedom? By the exact same argument we could do away with a legal drinking age.
    Ah, it seems we might not be on the same page regarding the plan of action we're each talking about. The article mentions changing federal regulations and adding taxes. If public schools decide not to sell high-sugar food for lunch or in snack machines that's fine by me.

    CR
    Ja Mata, Tosa.

    The poorest man may in his cottage bid defiance to all the forces of the Crown. It may be frail; its roof may shake; the wind may blow through it; the storm may enter; the rain may enter; but the King of England cannot enter – all his force dares not cross the threshold of the ruined tenement! - William Pitt the Elder

  5. #5
    Poll Smoker Senior Member CountArach's Avatar
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    Default Re: Chronic Fructose Exposure

    Quote Originally Posted by Crazed Rabbit View Post
    Ah, it seems we might not be on the same page regarding the plan of action we're each talking about. The article mentions changing federal regulations and adding taxes. If public schools decide not to sell high-sugar food for lunch or in snack machines that's fine by me.

    CR
    Alright I understand and that sounds more in line with what I thought you'd be saying. I disagree in regards to the taxation and federal regulation, but I don't think that is an immense shock to either of us.
    Rest in Peace TosaInu, the Org will be your legacy
    Quote Originally Posted by Leon Blum - For All Mankind
    Nothing established by violence and maintained by force, nothing that degrades humanity and is based on contempt for human personality, can endure.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Chronic Fructose Exposure

    Quote Originally Posted by Crazed Rabbit View Post

    It's called freedom.

    CR
    Err, we're talking about public schools for children CR. Where they have to ask permission to go to the bathroom and get sent to detention if they don't.

  7. #7

    Default Re: Chronic Fructose Exposure

    Excessive cigarette and alcohol taxes are just as dumb--they harm the industry and hurt the consumers who are going to buy the stuff anyway just so that self-righteous types can feel better about themselves.
    Tax revenue. I hear there's a hole in the UK's coffers because people are smoking and drinking much less.
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    Poll Smoker Senior Member CountArach's Avatar
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    Default Re: Chronic Fructose Exposure

    Quote Originally Posted by Gelatinous Cube View Post
    Rather, I think its just feel-good-measures gone horribly, horribly wrong. The cigarette companies don't suffer for this, because we're going to buy our damned smokes anyway. It just hurts people who smoke. Aren't all the freaking public smoking laws enough? Aargh. Gah.
    As an asthmatic who struggles to breath if I so much as walk past someone smoking, no they aren't enough.
    Excessive cigarette and alcohol taxes are just as dumb--they harm the industry and hurt the consumers who are going to buy the stuff anyway just so that self-righteous types can feel better about themselves.
    The industry might care, but you're probably still going to buy the products that get price-jacked. The only person that gets hurt by measures like these are the consumers.
    Can you please reconcile these two statements?
    Rest in Peace TosaInu, the Org will be your legacy
    Quote Originally Posted by Leon Blum - For All Mankind
    Nothing established by violence and maintained by force, nothing that degrades humanity and is based on contempt for human personality, can endure.

  9. #9
    Senior Member Senior Member naut's Avatar
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    Default Re: Chronic Fructose Exposure

    If the kiddies want cake, give them cake.

    Quote Originally Posted by Crazed Rabbit View Post
    Ah, it seems we might not be on the same page regarding the plan of action we're each talking about. The article mentions changing federal regulations and adding taxes. If public schools decide not to sell high-sugar food for lunch or in snack machines that's fine by me.
    Aye.
    Last edited by naut; 02-07-2012 at 13:33.
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  10. #10

    Default Re: Chronic Fructose Exposure

    This is an issue that should be solved through social awareness, not taxation. Such taxation schemes disproportionately hurt the poor.

  11. #11
    Senior Member Senior Member gaelic cowboy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Chronic Fructose Exposure

    Quote Originally Posted by PanzerJaeger View Post
    This is an issue that should be solved through social awareness, not taxation. Such taxation schemes disproportionately hurt the poor.
    To create the social awarness you will have to spend money on various programmes in school and in society at large to get the message out.

    Unfortunately in most countries these will be immediately attacked as evidence of "Big Guvmint go mad" the temptation will be to row back eventually and lose the gains.

    Setting actual targets for producers to fulfill will be more likely to sort this problem.
    They slew him with poison afaid to meet him with the steel
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  12. #12

    Default Re: Chronic Fructose Exposure

    Quote Originally Posted by gaelic cowboy View Post
    To create the social awarness you will have to spend money on various programmes in school and in society at large to get the message out.

    Unfortunately in most countries these will be immediately attacked as evidence of "Big Guvmint go mad" the temptation will be to row back eventually and lose the gains.
    Not at all. America was very successful in greatly reducing smoking habits through public awareness campaigns - many of them privately funded. Today, those who choose to smoke are educated as to the risks. Taxes and fees, whether on manufacturers or consumers, have had more questionable results.

    Today, most parents don't know the extent of health issues associated with sugar intake. Educate them, and most will act in the best interests of their children.

    Setting actual targets for producers to fulfill will be more likely to sort this problem.
    Or they will simply push higher prices on to the consumer as is common when new fees are levied by the government for whatever reason.

  13. #13
    Senior Member Senior Member gaelic cowboy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Chronic Fructose Exposure

    Quote Originally Posted by PanzerJaeger View Post
    Or they will simply push higher prices on to the consumer as is common when new fees are levied by the government for whatever reason.

    Possibly

    but we know for sure that poor people only buy what eat cos they can afford it, the reason there is cos sugar an salt are cheap and help bulk up the foods.

    producers must be incentivised to reduce there reliance on these particular ingredients, eventually the costs would come down as manufacturers compete for the poor mans belly.

    At least thats the theory anyway


    Of course it could all backfire with higher costs but thats hardly worse than the status quo.
    Last edited by gaelic cowboy; 02-07-2012 at 14:24.
    They slew him with poison afaid to meet him with the steel
    a gallant son of eireann was Owen Roe o'Neill.

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  14. #14
    Senior Member Senior Member gaelic cowboy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Chronic Fructose Exposure

    Quote Originally Posted by PanzerJaeger View Post
    Not at all. America was very successful in greatly reducing smoking habits through public awareness campaigns - many of them privately funded. Today, those who choose to smoke are educated as to the risks. Taxes and fees, whether on manufacturers or consumers, have had more questionable results.

    Today, most parents don't know the extent of health issues associated with sugar intake. Educate them, and most will act in the best interests of their children.


    One thing that struck me is it was probably easier to educate people to the danger of smoking as they could just push the idea of quitting to increase lifespan.

    But unhealthy eating is more complicated and requires a broader approach than simply quiting etc.

    There can be more factors in the calculation and as a result more outcomes, you might not be obese but you could be eating unhealthily just the same.

    Since we are the majority of us separated from the means of producing our own food we rely on the manufacturer to a massive degree, unfortunately thats where the problems starts. We both of us have different motives I want cheap food to eat but the manufacturer want to sell more produce, sugar and salt reduce cost and increase sales.

    We have to be seen as serious that we want less of this stuff in our food, they wont change the recipe until we force them too.
    They slew him with poison afaid to meet him with the steel
    a gallant son of eireann was Owen Roe o'Neill.

    Internet is a bad place for info Gaelic Cowboy

  15. #15
    Liar and Trickster Senior Member Andres's Avatar
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    Default Re: Chronic Fructose Exposure

    If there exists public healthcare and everybody can benefit from it regardless of lifestyle, then it seems pretty normal to me that living unhealthy is taxed.

    Indeed, living unhealthy and then let society pay for your treatments is pretty selfish. Taxing sounds perfectly reasonable.

    However, if there doesn't exist something like public healthcare worthy of the name public healthcare, then why taxing? If everybody pays for his own healthcare, then the guy eating 10 hamburgers a day and smoking 2 packs a day, will have to pay a lot more for his personal healthcare (or he'll die young) and, assuming public healthcare is non existant, he'll pay for it himself. So the healthy guy doesn't feel any negative consequences of his neighbours' unhealthy lifestyle.

    How good is your public healthcare? If you tax the unhealthy lifestyle, then you need to get better public healthcare in return. If there's no such thing as public healthcare, then why should you have to pay taxes on a unhealthy lifestyle, since you'll take care yourself of the funding of the treatment your lifestyle will one day force you to get.
    Last edited by Andres; 02-07-2012 at 14:03.
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  16. #16
    Senior Member Senior Member gaelic cowboy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Chronic Fructose Exposure

    Andres if you take a Darwinian view of this you problem then you will not solve it EVER.

    Even people who think there are engaging in healthy eating are actually ingesting far too much sugars, fats an salts etc.

    The profit motive to use them is too high so you need to curb it somehow, limits on amounts put in food seems fairer to me.

    Initially the poor would suffer due to higher production costs but the motive of manufacturers to reduce there own costs while not incurring sanctions would eventually bring back down the cost for healthier alternatives.
    They slew him with poison afaid to meet him with the steel
    a gallant son of eireann was Owen Roe o'Neill.

    Internet is a bad place for info Gaelic Cowboy

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