With Great Sacrifice [Concluded]

[edse]

That might make some sense if I hadn't been the first to vote Monty yesterday (albeit at the behest of a dead scum) - BEFORE he made his reveal. If you were the last killer? I'm not hearing anything to dissuade me about your scumminess.

Maybe you were listening to the same bird as Yaropolk, or maybe you are the bird itself.

[Yaropolk]

That might make some sense if I hadn't been the first to vote Monty yesterday (albeit at the behest of a dead scum) - BEFORE he made his reveal. If you were the last killer? I'm not hearing anything to dissuade me about your scumminess.

I resent that. I'm only mostly dead. And I gave the town 2 scum. Anyway, Vote: Monty. I am genuinely curious of lynching him will fulfill the "pure of soul" requirement.

[LazyMcCrow]

I resent that. I'm only mostly dead. And I gave the town 2 scum. Anyway, Vote: Monty. I am genuinely curious of lynching him will fulfill the "pure of soul" requirement.

No offence meant. I love the fact that you are still voting. Given that nothing short of a miracle will save Monty this turn, I guess we won't find out whether or not your vote actually counts. So you are also not aware of what constitutes a town victory? Curious indeed.

[Montmorency]

Wow, did Chaotix really say that?

Guys, that was an unrequested tag-in and he bended the truth quite a bit. If you want to get a more accurate picture, just refer to my older posts.

Here's your choice: let the surviving killer and his god win - or allow me and Chaotix to win.

Now, don't you think I dese-e-e-rve to win, after all that has been said and done?

Sacrifice me to myself, and you can forget about winning any wars for the next hundred years.

[LazyMcCrow]

Tally

Montmorency: 4 (BSmith, Lewwyn, White eyes:D, LazyMcCrow)

BSmith: 1 (Monty)

LazyMcCrow: 1 (edse)

Yaropolk also votes for Monty!

[Csargo]

Now, don't you think I dese-e-e-rve to win, after all that has been said and done?

Sacrifice me to myself, and you can forget about winning any wars for the next hundred years.

No.

[DaveShack]

Vote: Montmorency Busy day, lucky to have remembered to do rounds of the games I'm in today.

[seireikhaan]

Extending the round 12 hours for two reasons- a) activity, b) not going to be able to do the writeup tonight. Sorry.

[Montmorency]

This is your chance to vote BSmith, mortals.

[edse]

Al right guys, think about it. We are not here to lynch Gods, we are here to find the purest sacrifice. That's not Montmorency.

The only threat to the town atm is the last killer and the fact that he didn't nightkill Monty last night makes me draw the conclusion that there is a mechanism that requires Monty to get lynched for the killer to win. BSmith or LazyMcCrow is the last killer and with him gone we have all the time in the world to find the sacrifice.

[LazyMcCrow]

Al right guys, think about it. We are not here to lynch Gods, we are here to find the purest sacrifice. That's not Montmorency.

The only threat to the town atm is the last killer and the fact that he didn't nightkill Monty last night makes me draw the conclusion that there is a mechanism that requires Monty to get lynched for the killer to win. BSmith or LazyMcCrow is the last killer and with him gone we have all the time in the world to find the sacrifice.

Interesting conclusion you have there. You're saying that a killer would win NOT by doing his job, but by town doing theirs? While lynching Montmorency does make me slightly nervous - given that a killer IS still at large and is clearly an active player (as opposed to the handful of inactives who I am assuming will get WoKed imminently) - you are right: lynching Monty is bad for town in that it gives the Killer another opportunity to get closer to victory. I'd almost be prepared to follow your lead on this one if it weren't for the fact that a) You propose to lynch me rather than Montmorency and b) I don't agree with your conclusion above. I imagine that you have it the wrong way round: I think Montmorency will achieve some kind of victory for outlasting all the other power roles when the killer is lynched. I imagine a killer without a God, will likely have to survive SK-style to the end of the game. That makes most sense to me when I 'think about it' as you instruct.

So - I think that Monty's lynch is probably for the best - as well as being a foregone conclusion anyway. It's possible that the remaining killer - if that is indeed the set-up, is one of the players who sits on the line between lurking and participation. The more you expound your theories the less likely I think it is that you are the killer, but I still wouldn't bet against it: Guilty til proven innocent and all that :) I guess we'll just have to get the popcorn out and watch what happens when a God is lynched. If that brings about the end of the game, so be it, but I don't think it will.

[Lewwyn]

Al right guys, think about it. We are not here to lynch Gods, we are here to find the purest sacrifice. That's not Montmorency.

Wouldn't a god be the purest sacrifice? And probably the god's champion as well? I don't really agree with this idea that somehow we just let a self-professed mafia live. I'd love to go lynch the last killer, but we're not sure about who that is. I've always found that in mafia games you must lynch known mafia even if you think we can always get around to lynching them later. We have to lynch Monty at some point. Best now instead of possibly lynching another villager.

Oh and lynching a god, I'm excited for the write up!

[edse]

unvote:vote: BSmith there you have a candidate to the lynch, he's on the line between lurking and participation

Montmorency: 5 (BSmith, Lewwyn, White eyes:D, LazyMcCrow, DaveShack)

BSmith: 2 (Monty, edse)

[edse]

Wouldn't a god be the purest sacrifice? And probably the god's champion as well?

The purest sacrifice can't really be one of three Gods or one of the three champions.

I forgot the No Vote category.

No Vote:Fluffy, landlubber, Zack

The names in red are in danger of being WOK:ed, landlubber should have been yesterday.

[White_eyes:D]

Why are you trying to save someone who admits they are up to no good?

[edse]

Why are you trying to save someone who admits they are up to no good?

He's not up to no good, the killer is.

[seireikhaan]

Round over. Writeup will be posted soon-ish.

[seireikhaan]

Our examination for the following day proved short and succinct. It seemed it was on everyone's minds to find out what exactly Montmorency meant by claiming divinity. Surely a divine power was purer than anything a mere mortal could hope for? If not... well, a distraction taken care of, at least. When the Emperor demanded my record of everyone's decision, it was clear who would be handed over. Montmorency raised an eyebrow at the Emperor as he walked up to the altar. "Are you sure you wish to do this? You know who sustains your power. It is not these mortals," he said, gesturing to the crowd. "You know what I offer is far more substantial. Abandon this now." Montmorency narrowed his eyes as he stood in front of the blood-stained slab.

"You are a blasphemer! I am the Emperor! The gods have given me the power of divine judgment! I am divine will incarnate, you are nothing! Now down onto the altar, or we'll force you down." Montmorency grinned. "Now!" the Emperor ordered. Montmorency just chuckled.

"I would like to see your guards try. Do you truly think they can subdue the god of slaughter?" As if to answer, TheFluffyOne, Landlubber, and Zaccino moved behind him, each placing a hand on one of his arms. He looked around, suddenly angry. His eyes blazed a golden hue. "You dare touch divinity?! For you, the deal is off." A bright light flashed through the room. The Emperor staggered back, blinded for just a moment. When he could see again, Montmorency had vanished. The three soldiers each were scalded all across their fronts. Scorched sinews stared back at their ruler as they collapsed in a heap. "We are not finished," a booming voice rang out. "This is not the end. Your suffering is not yet over. Prepare for oblivion. For the few brave enough, I look forward to seeing you again."

I stood next to the Emperor in pure shock. He was standing like a statue. The rest of the remaining group looked to him questioningly. "My lord..." I whispered. "What now? What do we do?" He shook his head slightly.

"Go."



IT IS NOW NIGHT 5. PLEASE SEND ORDERS NOW. 24 HOURS AS USUAL.

Alive:

Bsmith
Daveshack
Edse
Lazy McCrow
Lewwyn
White eyes


Lynched:

Atheotes (D1)
SalmonSoil (D2)
Chaotix (D3)
GeneralHankerchief (D4)
Montmorency (D5)

Attacked:

Seon (N2)
Yaropolk (N2)
Csargo (N2)
Jarema (N3)
Ishmael (N3)
Visorslash (N4)

Wrath of Khaan:

Zaccino
Landlubber
Fluffy

[LazyMcCrow]

"I would like to see your guards try. Do you truly think they can subdue the god of slaughter?" As if to answer, TheFluffyOne, Landlubber, and Zaccino moved behind him, each placing a hand on one of his arms. He looked around, suddenly angry. His eyes blazed a golden hue. "You dare touch divinity?! For you, the deal is off." A bright light flashed through the room. The Emperor staggered back, blinded for just a moment. When he could see again, Montmorency had vanished. The three soldiers each were scalded all across their fronts. Scorched sinews stared back at their ruler as they collapsed in a heap. "We are not finished," a booming voice rang out. "This is not the end. Your suffering is not yet over. Prepare for oblivion. For the few brave enough, I look forward to seeing you again."

Well - I guess that's what Montmorency meant by claiming divinity. Big thanks to Zac, Fluffy & Landlubber for taking one for the team ;P
I'm surprised no-one has had anything to say yet - it seems like its time to take a closer look at what everyones been up to over the course of the last few days. I shall chew some cocoa leaves and return imminently.

[LazyMcCrow]

Monty & Chaotix

Csargo & ?
Yaropolk & ?

> General Hankerchief?


Let us assume that GeneralHankerchief was the killer for Csargo:

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...post2053425747

That means that the remaining killer is Yaropolks' Death Cultist.

However:

The town consists of the priests and warriors attempting to find the pure sacrifice. The Mafia's motives will not be quite as clear cut.

...

There will be a minimum of roles. The town will have, at it's disposal, at least one doctor, and possibly an investigator of sorts depending on the numbers play out. There will also be one currently unidentified "mystery" town role. The mafia may have additional abilities on top of killing. If I were playing, I would not rule out 3rd party roles. I'm hoping for at least 30, up to 40 players. 40 would be ideal, but I can work with 30. There won't be alt accounts for this game.

Well, began the game with 20: I think we can rule out the doctor and investigator. We've established through (misleading?) reveals from Montmorency & Chaotix, that each mafia faction has a God & a killer. There has been no evidence thusfar to suggest that this isn't true. The hosts description defines the mafia VC as 'not quite as clear cut' as the town's which is clearly 'The town consists of the priests and warriors attempting to find the pure sacrifice'

So we have a remaining killer amongst us and possibly a pure sacrifice. Let us assume there IS a pure sacrifice and that the game will end when he is lynched or killed. Perhaps it is the Emperor?


I've scanned each post by the remaining alive players and then read the thread again. I built up opinions on all players and I assume one of them is the 'pure' sacrifice, but I think first we must catch the killer.


In my opinion the remaining killer is Daveshack. I basically follow the 'guilty until proven innocent' methodolgy of re-reading the thread and studying the voting form. Everything daveshack posted just confirmed to me he is the killer, whereas there were always a few things about other players that made me doubt it.

Particular posts that stood out for me as follows:

Daveshack - post 126 -

So the "survival" is just flavor, and they're really gone? Love the ambiguity.

If they're gone, we have a big zero. My suspect was going to be Yaropolk, though the evidence was merely having voted for both lynches.

This post either: a)exhonorates him from a connection with Yaropolk, or b)establishes one.

post 146 gets wind that Chaotix is a power role. Votes to eliminate the competition

post 193 - looks scummy if you want it too. I bought it at the time.

post 219 very townie indeed. Throws alot of bread to the ducks ie: away from himself.

post 230: backs off Lewwyn immediately that Lewwyn protests his innocence. He is scum there is no need for him to pursue an innocent so long as he is not getting lynched himself.

post 231: the whole 'need...more..info' stuck out for me at the time of posting. The only reason he needs more info is so that he can eliminate his competition.
post 232: paranoid about seeming scummy 'bumping up his post count' apology

This was when Daveshack was most active: ie: when he was being voted for. General Hankerchief moves his vote from Daveshack to Monty and Dave drops off the radar.
But then:

post 282: Happy to jump on the GH wagon. can't remember whether or not he voted before? that's because he has never voted for any reason other than to deflect attention.

post: 337 he even ****ing tiptoes

Look forward to seeing what everyone else has to say.

[DaveShack]

That's some nice analysis. Completely wrong conclusions, but nice. I won't even OMGUS, since you didn't vote. Trying to see if someone else does it first, so you don't get tagged as the one who started it?

Nah, I'm just trying to make sense of what little there is.

Repeating myself. There is practically nothing here. If there were something to go by, it would be different, but nothing really stands out. And I don't know what to do when there is nothing, other than to read the nothing again more slowly to see if anything shows.

[LazyMcCrow]

That's some nice analysis. Completely wrong conclusions, but nice. I won't even OMGUS, since you didn't vote. Trying to see if someone else does it first, so you don't get tagged as the one who started it?



Repeating myself. There is practically nothing here. If there were something to go by, it would be different, but nothing really stands out. And I don't know what to do when there is nothing, other than to read the nothing again more slowly to see if anything shows.

You're right - I completely forgot to vote for you as I had little enough time to read everything in the thread again and formulate an opinion, before I went into a meeting for the last couple of hours. Here we go - I'll remedy that now
vote: Daveshack

[Lewwyn]

Look forward to seeing what everyone else has to say.

That was a pretty awesome post. Honestly though, I'm not convinced yet. I think the crux here is that post 126. Is that confirming a connection to Yaropolk? I went back and looked, it comes after the kills so yeah I can see where you're coming from. Why would you even bring it up if you're not concerned with his death? On the other hand, I think there's a stronger case that a mafia player would ignore it and try to distance himself from the kill, not lament it. I think you're looking at it wrong.

I've been going back through a bit and I've been focusing on those that are here but are contributing very little, mostly White_Eyes and BSmith. This is not to say that one of them is definitely the killer, but I think what we should put pressure on them today to see if they are paying attention enough to defend themselves.

As for edse I've been on his case a lot this game, but for the last couple days we've had pretty much confirmed mafia to lynch. edse I'm still watching but I've seen more guilt elsewhere for now... It's late in my TimeZone. I will try to arrange some evidence to explain my concerns about White_Eyes and BSmith.

[LazyMcCrow]

(edit: reaction to Dave)....although your reaction just doesn't sound that scummy. Hmmmpf. What I don't like about your response though, is that there clearly IS loads of stuff to go through and loads of reaction. It seems like you can't be bothered with it, which I'm sorry to say DOES seem townie of you, given the ****poor show so far. Hells - we've been lucky enough for scum to fall on each others swords and now we're going to throw that away by just...not bothering? I like it less, but until I'm given a plausible reason to vote for someone else - by you or whoever: You're still my best guess. It's too late in the day now for 'Nothing really stands out'

[DaveShack]

You mean this post?

So the "survival" is just flavor, and they're really gone? Love the ambiguity.

If they're gone, we have a big zero. My suspect was going to be Yaropolk, though the evidence was merely having voted for both lynches.

Let me put that a different way. I was going to vote for Yaropolk at that point, because of his voting record. Monty (who we now know was "special" too) pointed out that the attacked people were missing from the living list. I expressed surprise that this was the case, since the writeup clearly indicated they survived in some form. In retrospect, now we know why Monty cared...

How is that scummy, to be confused now that the only player I had a feel for was gone but "saved by the writeup"? And remained a suspect of sorts, when the post-death "voting" continued?

Lazy and Lewwn both act townie, at least in the past few posts. There is someone who seemed eager to put someone else up, anyone but Monty, and that was Vote: Edse.

[edse]

Lazy and Lewwn both act townie, at least in the past few posts. There is someone who seemed eager to put someone else up, anyone but Monty, and that was Vote: Edse.

GAAAAAHHHHH!!! I WAS TRYING TO GET HIM LYNCHED THE TWO FIRST DAYS! And the last killer would be someone that was voting for Montmorency.

It's night now anyway so you are all voting in vain.

[LazyMcCrow]

You mean this post?



Let me put that a different way. I was going to vote for Yaropolk at that point, because of his voting record. Monty (who we now know was "special" too) pointed out that the attacked people were missing from the living list. I expressed surprise that this was the case, since the writeup clearly indicated they survived in some form. In retrospect, now we know why Monty cared...

How is that scummy, to be confused now that the only player I had a feel for was gone but "saved by the writeup"? And remained a suspect of sorts, when the post-death "voting" continued?

Lazy and Lewwn both act townie, at least in the past few posts. There is someone who seemed eager to put someone else up, anyone but Monty, and that was Vote: Edse.

That's the post. I read it as a deliberate effort to conveniently distance yourself from Yaropolk, using lazy reasoning to profess to be voting for him in the first place. However, I can see that as Lewwyn pointed out, it can be read in both ways, and I may indeed have got it the wrong way round. I'd appreciate the opinions of some proven innocents, as well as the rest of the alive.

[LazyMcCrow]

GAAAAAHHHHH!!! I WAS TRYING TO GET HIM LYNCHED THE TWO FIRST DAYS! And the last killer would be someone that was voting for Montmorency.

It's night now anyway so you are all voting in vain.

XD - oh yeah!

[BSmith]

I’m here, and if you have concerns about me, ask away. I have nothing to hide.

Does anyone know if the champions started on D1 as killers, or were they recruited by the gods? Reading Monty’s reveal post leads me to believe that they were recruited, but it is not clear. Knowing if/when they were recruited may help in the thread analysis.

[BSmith]

I went through the thread and looked at White_Eyes:D. He has said just about nothing this entire game. Here is a summary of all his posts:

Post #16: pre-game “in” post
Post #55: apologizes for missing first round (fluff)
Post #82: Votes for Chaotix mainly due to Chaotix’s almost nonsensical quasi-joke post (fluff)
Post #134: mainly talks about meta game setups by Khaan, interestingly states that more people need to vote, then places his vote on Csargo (who is dead at this point) with no reasoning whatsoever.
Post #166: Notes that he voted for a dead guy after the round is over (fluff)
Post #303: Posts to say he missed yet another round, jokes about being lynch bait. Thinks the GH lynch is a fail. (mostly fluff)
Post #324: Responds to Chaotix’s post about finding the last killer before lynching Monty. Votes for Monty.
Post #345: Questions edse “trying to save someone who admits they are up to no good”. (edse voted for me at this point instead of Monty).

Nothing stands out to me a scummy, other than the fact that he has done just enough to avoid the WoK and hasn’t said anything of consequence that could come back and bite him. I am suspicious, but unfortunately there is no real evidence against him.

In doing this exercise, I did notice this post by edse:

The purest sacrifice can't really be one of three Gods or one of the three champions.

Do you care to expound on this any? How do you know it can’t be one of them? One way to interpret this statement is that it is an attempt to deflect attention away from finding the last killer. Is this what you are advocating here?