Crusader Kings II

[Hooahguy]

International diplomacy is headache-inducing. There really should be some sort of option to enter an alliance with another faction without having a marriage taking place. Im getting into position to take over Scotland (though not through marriage, unfortunately) and I want to secure the northern border with Norway. While Im a king and so is he, he refuses to have my daughter marry his son. Plus he likes me so I dont know what the problem is.

[Monk]

International diplomacy is headache-inducing. There really should be some sort of option to enter an alliance with another faction without having a marriage taking place. Im getting into position to take over Scotland (though not through marriage, unfortunately) and I want to secure the northern border with Norway. While Im a king and so is he, he refuses to have my daughter marry his son. Plus he likes me so I dont know what the problem is.

The Ai likely has other plans for that character. Hover your mouse over the 'send' button, it will tell you the various factors affecting the AI's decision making. He probably had the "desires better alliance" modifier which means he wants a better deal, or a deal with a stronger faction.

[The Stranger]

but the desires stronger alliance is often broken. sometimes I have dukes refuse marriage to my offspring while i have the strongest army in the world and the dynasty with the highest prestige. it works better than before but still doesnt work as good as it should

[Hooahguy]

Has anyone here been in a large-scale war? As the kingdom of Ireland, I can put a usurper on the throne of Scotland. And then, I think he will agree to become my vassal since he likes me so much. That is my hope, at least. Though to put this plan in place I will have to send all my forces plus mercs against them. Plus I will have to keep some at home since they love to send troops over to Ireland. Strategically that makes sense, but Id think it would be smarter to just fight me on their own turf.

[Kekvit Irae]

Has anyone here been in a large-scale war? As the kingdom of Ireland, I can put a usurper on the throne of Scotland. And then, I think he will agree to become my vassal since he likes me so much. That is my hope, at least. Though to put this plan in place I will have to send all my forces plus mercs against them. Plus I will have to keep some at home since they love to send troops over to Ireland. Strategically that makes sense, but Id think it would be smarter to just fight me on their own turf.

Rule 1 of warfare: Never go to war with anyone bigger than you unless you have an emergency fund for mercenaries. The AI does buy mercs from time to time, so you need to be prepared for the worst.
Rule 2 of warfare: Never go to war without upgrading your holdings first. 2k troops from a county is better than 500 troops.
Rule 3 of warfare: Never go to war with someone who you cant transport troops to easily.
Rule 4 of warfare: Always levy a navy even if you don't need it. This is especially important when you are chasing retreating armies. The time it takes to embark/move ship/disembark is much less than the time it takes to travel to the next county on foot. You'll arrive ahead of the retreating army, and gain defensive bonuses when they arrive.

[Hooahguy]

Thanks for the tips. I also just realized that I have some claim to every part of Scotland through having a claimant in my court. It would probably be smarter to slowly gobble up Scotland instead of trying to take it all at once. Though once I defeat their preliminary armies they don't hold much threat.

[rickinator9]

Thanks for the tips. I also just realized that I have some claim to every part of Scotland through having a claimant in my court. It would probably be smarter to slowly gobble up Scotland instead of trying to take it all at once. Though once I defeat their preliminary armies they don't hold much threat.

Might also be good saying you should disband armies from time to time. If you've got some 10000 men armies that are now 5000, it's probable that a lot of men are just in the 'bank'. Bring those armies home, disband them and after that reraise them.

[Ibn-Khaldun]

One thing that bothers me is that there are no naval battles in this game. So many times I have had a large fleet near my cost and what I see is some small enemy fleets just come in and unload their troops. It is really really annoying.

Is there a way to mod naval battles into the game?

[The Stranger]

Rule 1 of warfare: Never go to war with anyone bigger than you unless you have an emergency fund for mercenaries. The AI does buy mercs from time to time, so you need to be prepared for the worst.
Rule 2 of warfare: Never go to war without upgrading your holdings first. 2k troops from a county is better than 500 troops.
Rule 3 of warfare: Never go to war with someone who you cant transport troops to easily.
Rule 4 of warfare: Always levy a navy even if you don't need it. This is especially important when you are chasing retreating armies. The time it takes to embark/move ship/disembark is much less than the time it takes to travel to the next county on foot. You'll arrive ahead of the retreating army, and gain defensive bonuses when they arrive.

what I usually do is try to beat the enemy army on a spot that is favorable for me, either on plain terrain when attacking with bigger army or on suitable terrain (terrain minus for him and/or terrain bonus for me) when defending. After this is done, hunt down that army untill it is nearly destroyed (dont destroy it entirely) hoping to capture as many nobles and preferably the leader of the country/nation you are fighting (giving instant 100% warscore). IF the war is not over by then, split off a small part of your army, but big enough to safely siege counties. The rest of your army will chase down the parts of the enemy before they can regroup into 1 big army. I usually hire mercs and pay their costs by ransoming nobles. Sometimes I have income of like 7-8 a month and an upkeep of 20+ and I still pay my debts by ransoming + sacking cities. Wars are usually a big profit for me. Often I keep the mercenaries on after the war and offer other nations help and join in, capture some nobles and make some dough!

another strategy is, to put your entire army into a navy, sail to a coastal area and siege from the coast. whenever a stronger enemy army comes, you hop your army into a ship. if done properly the enemy can never touch you! i usually use this trick when crusading to quickly get 100 warscore against the shia caliphate :P

[The Stranger]

Thanks for the tips. I also just realized that I have some claim to every part of Scotland through having a claimant in my court. It would probably be smarter to slowly gobble up Scotland instead of trying to take it all at once. Though once I defeat their preliminary armies they don't hold much threat.

i have to remind you that if you push this claim you will not gain any land unless you give him land in your demesne and thus making him your vassal.

if you press a kingdom tier claim as a king he will also not become your vassal because equal rank cannot be vassals of each other. be careful that you do not waste alot of time and effort for just a happy neighbour.

what I do sometimes tho is to marry to a claimant and then press that claimants title so that our ofspring will become leader of that country. then divorce and repeat! it is possible to get your dynasty on the throne of half of europe within 1 generation that way :P

[Chaotix]

another strategy is, to put your entire army into a navy, sail to a coastal area and siege from the coast. whenever a stronger enemy army comes, you hop your army into a ship. if done properly the enemy can never touch you! i usually use this trick when crusading to quickly get 100 warscore against the shia caliphate :P

This one works like a charm. Used this to beat France as much-weaker England (total army strength about half the size of theirs). It was a defensive war, but still. France is incredibly ripe for naval attack from a nation that controls the Atlantic coast.

[Arjos]

On the line of the same tacting, when you attack a nation with a bigger army, if you have lots of coastal regions and can act quickly, you can sail to the enemy and pick each of his "contingents" as they try to assemble in a single region...
Thus even if you have only a limited force, you can wipe out a huge army before it forms up ^^

[Monk]

At last the full 1.06 changelog - and good lord it's a big one...


Original post: http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/....06-Change-Log

Well folks, tomorrow we release patch 1.06 and the Sword of Islam expansion. Until then, for the curious among you, here is the (mostly complete) change log:

MAJOR:
- Muslim Decadence System
- Muslim Polygamy
- Added new provinces, titles and history for Mali, Songhay and Ghana
- Added the province of Aprutium (split off from Spoleto)
- Added the new creatable Empires of Russia, Britannia, Spain, Francia, Scandinavia, Persia and Arabia
- Strong and Weak Claim System
- Overhaul of game text for Muslims
- Added plots to claim titles
- Split up the former Kingdom of Khazaria into many de jure kingdoms
- Split the Kingdom of Rus into the kingdoms of Rus and Ruthenia
- Added the duchies of Susa and Latium
- Revised murder plots completely. No decisions, just events.
- Commander traits added
- Heavily revised combat tactics
- Loads of new events

MINOR:
- AI: Much more eager to join Crusades/Jihads if it has de jure interests in the target kingdom
- AI: Much more eager to join Crusades/Jihads if in the same realm as the religious head
- AI: More stubborn about fighting decadence revolters
- AI: Tweaked Crusade targetting - will no longer target kingdoms with 0 'holiness' value for that religion
- AI: Non-Muslims will not accept marriages for female relatives with Muslims, unless they are vassals
- AI: Now prefers giving baronies/counties to courtiers with static dynasties rather than creating random characters
- AI: Vassals of vassals can now correctly revolt to depose their liege
- AI: DoW now factors in the strength of enemies of enemies
- AI: Willing to join another rebelling vassal's war for the crown only if they'd like them better as _liege_
- AI: Vassals should no longer start wars (except for revolts) if the whole realm is under attack from outside
- AI: Caliphs will now be more aggressive with calling Jihads
- Army AI: Will now assault when appropriate
- Army AI: Fixed a problem where you could trick AI armies into ping-ponging while it was trying to gather its forces
- Army AI: Fixed some issues where it would not count attached units properly
- Army AI: Better at moving across land without marching together with other armies, causing unnecessary attrition
- Army AI: Improved attrition check in targetting calculations
- Army AI: Fixed an issue where it would merge armies to huge sizes by not considering attached forces
- Invasion AI: Fixed an issue where it would choose poor secondary targets if the target province was too heavily defended
- No longer possible to call lieges to war against their own vassals
- Fixed a bug with the succession message not being shown for the ones who inherit titles
- Fixed an issue with the de jure law vote message not going away when trying to approve it
- Slightly increased merc reinforcement rates
- Fixed a memory leak with timed opinion modifiers that time out naturally
- Moved the county of Chalons into Lower Burgundy and Grisons into Upper Burgundy
- Fixed a bug with the depose liege CB sometimes making the new ruler independent (bug in the effect 'abdicate_to_most_liked_by').
- Fixed a bug with the effect 'abdicate_to_most_liked_by' that would invalidate outside wars
- Fixed a bug with the 'grant_title' effect which would assign the liege to the liege of the granter
- Fixed a potential infinite loop in war name generation
- Fixed a bug with the Feudal Elective law being tolerated for Republics
- If the loser in a war is imprisoned, he is now automatically released on peace
- Fixed a bug with created characters sometimes getting duplicate education traits
- People who avoid imprisonment will now always flee to another realm
- Added a whole bunch of cleaned up title coats of arms
- Muslim coats of arms should now use better colors
- No longer allowed to grant titles to prisoners
- You can now correctly press the de jure claims of vassals of vassals
- Fixed a bug with being able to call vassals of vassals of the enemy into wars within the same realm
- When winning (enforce or reverse) a war, all prisoners from your realm held by the enemy are now released
- Added opinion modifiers 'Imprisoned my Child' and 'Executed my Child'
- No longer allowed to ask to join outsider wars against your liege
- Fixed a bug with the depose liege CB in republics and bishoprics
- Rulers deposed with the 'depose' casus belli no longer get any land from their old vassals to remain rulers
- Fixed an issue where a ruler could not offer peace to a rebelling vassal if he had holdings occupied by another (loyal) vassal in a separate war
- Fixed a bug with the hostility icons for loyal vassals in separate wars with rebelling vassals
- If a vassal is at war with another vassal who is rebelling, the war no longer ends if the liege wins and the rebellion is crushed
- Fixed a bug with lieges ending up in two wars if a vassal revolted while a revoke action was pending
- Blocked excomm wars against revolters
- Fixed some issues with succession not being recalculated after certain event effects
- Peace Offers now make it clear whether it's a demand for surrender, white peace or surrender
- Cleaned up all CB tooltips
- The initial Seljuk-Byzantine war is now a full invasion of the de jure kingdom of Armenia
- Added "Scarred" trait
- Fixed a bug allowing rulers of a hostile religion to vote for de jure laws even when not de facto vassals
- Toned down base attribute gain of children from guardians
- Optimized the CPU heaviest events
- Fixed a nasty old crash bug with the defection of the Victual Brothers
- Fixed a hostility bug with allies helping to defend against a revolter
- Fixed an issue with Gavelkind inheritance in baronies, where the youngest child would inherit first
- Fixed an issue with the random seed in delayed events
- Fixed a bug allowing you to usurp titles from your own vassals
- Fixed an issue with vassals of vassals gaining independence when you pressed their claims
- The titular kingdoms of Naples and Trinacria are no longer creatable in-game
- The Ecumenical Patriarch will now refuse to excommunicate a character who has repented, even if the Emperor asks
- Merc navies will now disband when not getting paid
- Fixed an issue with the lower Crown Authority plot when the liege folds to the ultimatum of a vassal king
- No longer possible to grant duchies to barons
- The event effect 'destroy_landed_title' now gives the current holder a strong claim on the title
- The events where the Mongols receive reinforcements no longer trigger if the titles are held by non-Tengri or non-Mongol rulers
- Fixed an issue with attached units and siege outcomes
- Fixed a bug with Revokation plot wars against vassals who lose the title to someone else
- Fixed a bug where a vassal in revolt against his liege would sometimes have the war end inconclusively when the liege got a new liege
- Fixed an issue where children would change guardian if they became landed
- AI spouses of lower rank than you will now always accept education requests- In feudal elective titular realms, _all_ vassals of the appropriate tier are now electors
- The death of a spouse no longer makes characters lose their jobs
- Characters who end up leading the troops of their enemies should now automatically return home
- The opinion penalties for revoking a title are now applied whether or not the target accepts or refuses
- If a vassal refuses a title revokation and wins or achieves a white peace, the 'declared_war' opinion modifier is now cleared (meaning the liege does not get a 'free' title revokation)
- There is no longer a cooldown for calling allies to war who _accepted_ a previous call
- Primogeniture: more heirs should now be listed
- Gavelkind: fixed a glitch with grandchildren
- Removed impassable terrain between Kartli and Albania
- Fixed unit position in the Irish Sea
- Made Sviatopolk Rurikovich (count of Zaozerye in 1066) a legit bastard
- Heretics and infidels are now barred from inheriting anything that the religious head holds
- The portraits for undiscovered murderers should now be hidden in the event window
- Mercs and Holy Order commanders should no longer be shown in the quick marriage window
- Now always allowed to attach your units to your lieges' units
- Added an event where a ruler converts to the native culture
- Adjusted and improved the events where provinces change culture
- Reactivated the lifting FoW for allies in wars
- Doubled regular assassination costs
- The "Arrange Marriage" button now shows random courtiers if there are too few interesting women around
- There is now a slight chance of a random education outcome
- Fixed some issues with war invalidation for banishment of landed characters
- Can no longer banish mercs, holy order heads, or religious heads
- Attached units that are not in the same province as the master unit are no longer hostile to the master unit's enemies
- The spouse will now get a message on divorce
- Fixed some historical issues with Chios and Lesbos
- The liege should now get pressed claims on _all_ titles of characters who declare independence
- If an ally could legally call you into a war, you should always be able to ask to join as well
- Battle Death should now show the unit owner rather than the unit commander
- Vassals of lieges who are fighting their liege will no longer revolt
- Holy War CBs are now valid for Catholic vassals of Orthodox lieges, etc
- Added automatic county conversion events for Muslims (35500 and 35501)
- Pathfinding now prefers friendly territory to enemy territory
- Vassal vs Liege wars should now end with a _mutual_ truce

FOR MODDERS:
- Exported inbreeding trait gain factors to defines
- Exported most relevant files under common to their own folders, so they can be broken up into multiple files
- Added 'immortal' flag to traits; stops aging, character will not die of age or poor health
- Added 'pilgrimage' flag to traits; the character is away and needs a regent, but can still be a guardian, etc
- Added 'name_tier' to landed titles, so that empires can be called kingdoms, etc
- Added 'pass_effect' to decisions and laws, which is not run by automatic functions (useful for setting opinion modifiers when passing laws.)
- Added event target 'fromfrom'
- Added trigger 'in_revolt'
- Added 'divine_blood' flag to dynasties, which allows full consanguine marriages and tells the AI to prefer keepin' it in the family
- Added 'founder_named_dynasties' to cultures
- Can now script marriage consanguinity rules in religions
- Added a 'potential' trigger to Job Actions
- Added 'dismiss_trigger' to job titles
- Added a 'potential' trigger to traits
- Added trigger 'num_of_realm_counties'
- Added effect 'vassalize_or_take_under_title'
- Added trigger 'death_reason'
- Added event target 'killer'
- Added event effect 'objective_succeeds'
- The trigger 'can_be_given_away' is now more restrictive. Checks occupation or sieges of constituent Holdings, contestation in wars, etc.
- Added history command 'conquest_culture'
- Added trigger 'plot_power_contribution'
- Added trigger 'random'
- Added trigger 'any_potential_tribal_county'
- Added effect 'any_potential_tribal_county'
- Added effect 'random_potential_tribal_county'
- Added 'new' target in effects ( character = new ) for newly created characters
- Added death reason 'death_hashshashin'
- Added effect 'make_primary_spouse'
- Added trigger 'has_strong_claim'
- Added trigger 'has_weak_claim'
- Added effect 'add_weak_claim'
- Added effect 'add_weak_pressed_claim'
- Added trigger 'has_regent'
- Added trigger 'is_contested'
- Added event effect 'any_spouse'
- Added event effect 'random_spouse'
- Added trigger 'any_spouse'
- Added trigger 'is_main_spouse'
- Added a 'distance' trigger

[Martok]

Awesome! I've kinda been waiting for this to come out before I got too deeply into the game. Thanks for the heads-up Monk!

[Hooahguy]

Heard that its both savegame compatible and incompatible.
Its like Russian roulette.

[Monk]

Heard that its both savegame compatible and incompatible.
Its like Russian roulette.

Well it's sorta both. Paradox has said that while saves will be compatible and will load up fine without many oddities, you'll see a ton of balance issues if you carry a 1.05 game into 1.06 due to all the changes to the muslim world. To get the best experience you should (if you have a steam copy) set your game to ignore updates RIGHT NOW, if you're wrapped up in a game you want to finish.

It's always a good idea to start fresh with paradox patches.

[Hooahguy]

Yeah thats what Im going to do. Right now my goal is to get Scotland, then I will call it a game.

Also, whats another good nation to play as?

[Monk]

Yeah thats what Im going to do. Right now my goal is to get Scotland, then I will call it a game.

Also, whats another good nation to play as?

One of the Russian dukes offers an interesting game, forming the Rus and trying to survive the storm of the Mongols, ect.

An HRE vassal is good too. Accumulate power within the empire slowly before breaking away and taking on the emperor in an independence war. I did that with Tuscana back in 1.03 and later formed Italy. Good times, lots of opportunity there as well as with the others.

Poland is a rather simple but still fun king-tier game. Lots of options for early expansion.

Denmark is incredibly easy. Eat the eastern pagans for breakfast and begin uniting Scandinavia.

Apulia offers lots of interesting chances for fun. You start with almost all of de jure Sicily, but your family can be a bit of a pain.

Thats all i can think of for independent faction choices. Until I see how 1.06 affects the overall balance I'm not going to recommend any of the Iberian kingdoms. Without mods they hardly stand a chance of survival from the 1066 scenario.

[The Stranger]

barcelona, any of the jimena family members. france is good too, or the duke of aquitaine as vassal.

if you look for challenges go for counts near pagan/muslim territory.

[Centurion1]

anybody looking to learnt his game i suggest watching the lets play on croatia (and initially slavonia) He is not a boring commentators never moves the game quickly so you miss nothing, has a couple funny jokes (i actually laughed a couple times) and narrates what he is doing. he also has tutorial videos.

slavonia incidentally is a decent starting country as well.

[Hooahguy]

One of the Russian dukes offers an interesting game, forming the Rus and trying to survive the storm of the Mongols, ect.

An HRE vassal is good too. Accumulate power within the empire slowly before breaking away and taking on the emperor in an independence war. I did that with Tuscana back in 1.03 and later formed Italy. Good times, lots of opportunity there as well as with the others.

Poland is a rather simple but still fun king-tier game. Lots of options for early expansion.

Denmark is incredibly easy. Eat the eastern pagans for breakfast and begin uniting Scandinavia.

Apulia offers lots of interesting chances for fun. You start with almost all of de jure Sicily, but your family can be a bit of a pain.

Thats all i can think of for independent faction choices. Until I see how 1.06 affects the overall balance I'm not going to recommend any of the Iberian kingdoms. Without mods they hardly stand a chance of survival from the 1066 scenario.

My first CKII game was actually with HRE. Though I accidentally picked the king, not a vassal. Oops. Found myself at war on like 3 fronts, which is never good considering I was still learning the basics.

[Kekvit Irae]

anybody looking to learnt his game i suggest watching the lets play on croatia (and initially slavonia) He is not a boring commentators never moves the game quickly so you miss nothing, has a couple funny jokes (i actually laughed a couple times) and narrates what he is doing. he also has tutorial videos.

slavonia incidentally is a decent starting country as well.

If you want to plug someone, at least give a name or a link, because a quick search reveals two people doing a LP of Croatia. One is OfficerDew, who cant be arsed to fix his technical issues in post processing, and has a REALLY intrusive "Funny Minecraft Video" annotation that goes for the ENTIRE video. The other is TekkorGJC, who sounds like he bought his microphone from Walmart. Neither are good examples.
A good example of a CK2 LP, in my opinion, is 1066 Castille, by quill18. No long, intrusive annotations, and a good microphone. No post-processing, but he's doing it on a livestream.

[Monk]

Sword of Islam has been officially released on Gamersgate. Still waiting on the steam release, but for everyone else: GET YOU SOME!

http://www.gamersgate.com/DLC-CK2SI/...sword-of-islam

Also released:

Songs of the Caliph:
http://www.gamersgate.com/DLC-CK2SOC...-of-the-caliph

African Unit sprite pack:
http://www.gamersgate.com/DLC-CK2AUP...ican-unit-pack

Even though its ON gamersgate, you'll still have to use the in-game store if you wanna download it.

[Beskar]

I really love the duchy changes, finally, got actual pretty borders!

Also, the new empires are not titular, they are dejure.

There is a great new swarth of Kingdoms in the East, which looks to be interest stepping points to building a glorius kingdom.

Seljuk Turks as a titular Kingdom is removed, and it is simply the Sultanate of Persia. Also the Shia and Sunni Capihilites are no longer in the game, but there are the dejure Empires of Arabia and Persia.

[johnhughthom]

Nice to see a reasonable price for a Paradox expansion.

[Monk]

Seljuk Turks as a titular Kingdom is removed, and it is simply the Sultanate of Persia. Also the Shia and Sunni Capihilites are no longer in the game, but there are the dejure Empires of Arabia and Persia.

Indeed. With the new naming conventions, the Sultanate of Persia automatically becomes the Seljuk Sultanate. It keeps the turks in power, keeps their flavor on the map, but now strengthens them and gives them de jure loyalty bonuses for almost 60% of their starting provinces. Brilliant move on paradox's part to solve their stability problems, and it was one I was going to do myself in my mod. I elevated them to an empire level title but also awarded them the k_persia title to the ruler. It was working like a charm. This change however is much less round-about and accomplishes the same thing.

I'm running observe games while i wait for the DLC to launch on steam and also updating my mod. So far so good.

Unfortunately Iberia is still the same muslim stomping session it was in 1.05, but i suppose that's why we have mods, eh?

[Centurion1]

If you want to plug someone, at least give a name or a link, because a quick search reveals two people doing a LP of Croatia. One is OfficerDew, who cant be arsed to fix his technical issues in post processing, and has a REALLY intrusive "Funny Minecraft Video" annotation that goes for the ENTIRE video. The other is TekkorGJC, who sounds like he bought his microphone from Walmart. Neither are good examples.
A good example of a CK2 LP, in my opinion, is 1066 Castille, by quill18. No long, intrusive annotations, and a good microphone. No post-processing, but he's doing it on a livestream.

It is TekkorGJC and im sorry if he isn't up to your standards of lp. I enjoyed it and I learned quite a bit about the game. Hopefully one day I will find someone worthy of being watched for LP's.

He also addresses questions you ask him as I sent in a message to him and he got back to me pretty quickly. Sorry I forgot the name.

[Hooahguy]

Started a game as Scotland. Big mistake.
Ive been through 3 separate civil wars. Two by vassals, one by my brother. Then when I banished him everyone got upset. Most of pretty much everyone is really angry at me for being "a tyrant."

I have no idea how Im still in power. Hopefully my son will do better.

[Centurion1]

Started a game as Scotland. Big mistake.
Ive been through 3 separate civil wars. Two by vassals, one by my brother. Then when I banished him everyone got upset. Most of pretty much everyone is really angry at me for being "a tyrant."

I have no idea how Im still in power. Hopefully my son will do better.

those lairds are bothersome. makes you wish the england would cross the border flying the dragon sometimes....

personally starting out ive found that smaller nations or duchys under a large empire work the best.

[Hooahguy]

Executions in this game are flawed. If a vassal revolts, and you win and imprison him, there should be no penalty for executing him, if you choose to.

In fact, there needs to be a "fear" bonus for your vassals. If I was a vassal and my liege executed another vassal for treason, Id think twice before revolting. In my current game with Scotland, my half brother and one of my vassals revolted. I defeated them and put them in jail. I wanted their land so I could give it to my more loyal vassals, so I executed them both. Banished the other one (my brother). I got huge penalties and the tyrant trait. Seriously?

Now, if you needlessly execute people then yes, you should get penalties, and the more you execute the more severe the penalties should be.

But there should be no penalties for executing traitors.

I hope this is changed in the next patch.