Crusader Kings II

[Chaotix]

If you're at 100% decadence, you will sooner or later get hit with a Decadence Invasion.

Some county will revolt and come at you with roughly as many troops as you can muster in your entire realm. And they're all attrition free.

You'll also lose 50% decadence. But as soon as it jumps back up, you're susceptible to getting another one.

The way I handled decadence the last time I played Muslims was by keeping my dynasty very small. I was playing as Rum, so it eventually meant assassinating all of my Seljuk cousins. I also revoked or killed all of my vassal relatives and kept only my desmesne under Seljuk rule. Then give your designated heir a county and imprison the rest after he inherits. Rinse/repeat. With such a small dynasty you rarely gain any decadence, though it can be dangerous not knowing whether you'll have an heir.

[rickinator9]

Hit their separate stacks when they are besieging provinces. They should split up.

[Myth]

That's great and I'm certainly doing it, but the problem with the ERE and the war for Anatolia is that it's all landlocked so I can't really outspeed them wit clever navy use.

Also, how can I get the TO hochmeister as my vassal? Their ginormous stack is just sitting theren in an ERE province and they have apparently been kicked out of the baltic. I tried granting them a county and he was happy and all, but still did not accept being my vassal. However the KOJ still has the hospitalliers and templars as its vassal.

[rickinator9]

That's great and I'm certainly doing it, but the problem with the ERE and the war for Anatolia is that it's all landlocked so I can't really outspeed them wit clever navy use.

Always reserve 250 or so gold for mercenaries when you're small or have big blobs next to you to get mercenaries. I especially found horse archer mercenaries very good.

Also, how can I get the TO hochmeister as my vassal? Their ginormous stack is just sitting theren in an ERE province and they have apparently been kicked out of the baltic. I tried granting them a county and he was happy and all, but still did not accept being my vassal. However the KOJ still has the hospitalliers and templars as its vassal.

No idea. I never really played in the holy land. Perhaps it is not possible and Jerusalem just starts with them vassalised. Or this may still work: http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/...ssalising-them

[Monk]

I've said this before. I will say it again. This has got to be the greatest moment i've ever witnessed. Playing with Project Balance, what you are about to see is thanks to the duel engine which Meneth included in the mod's development... This engine was adapted from the Game of Thrones mod.. and is just about the most glorious thing i've ever seen. It's insanely high risk (you can be killed VERY easily) but my god.. moments like this guys.. it's moments like this.


Three mega powers locked in bitter struggle with one another. On one side, the Karen Shahdom of Persia defends the Satropy of Hamadan against the beligerants. On the other, the Sunni Calliphate of Arabia, with their allies the Tulunid Sultanate of Egypt, fight to retake Hamadan from Zoroastrian hands and restore Sunni rule in a Holy War.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

The two sides have been struggling for the last two years. The first battle at Dezbar completely destroyed the allied forces of the Abbasids. But now it's 956 and the Caliph's strength is rebuilt. He's back for round two at the Battle of Aligoodarz. He's got the upper hand, the Shah is on the ropes and despite having a numerical advantage, the morale of the Persian forces wavers... until...

Through the chaos the two men meet. Shah and Caliph. King and Emperor. They circle each other. Tense. Kingdom against Empire, Sunni against Zoroastrian, it has all been forgotten, all been boiled down to this one fight. Man against man.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

The Caliph lies defeated. The men around the moment of personal combat stand in awe. Their religious leader is at the mercy of his enemy. Their enemy.. and mercy is granted. Captured, the Caliph knows his war is over. The Shahdom of Persia has just defeated its two most powerful rivals as the entire world watched.

[Alexander the Pretty Good]

Ha, they didn't even change the graphics from AGOT.

All told, does Project Balance change more or less than E&B, Monk?

[naut]

Ha, they didn't even change the graphics from AGOT.

All told, does Project Balance change more or less than E&B, Monk?

PB doesn't make sweeping changes, it makes subtle changes that are aimed towards less volatile AI behaviour and a slower, but more deliberate game.

For me the most welcome changes are slower levy reinforcement, meaning less early game snowballing by medium-large realms. It also means the player can't do the same obviously. The other I appreciate is the law system, which has been broadened. Especially the changes to Crown Laws, which make for a more interesting 'per ruler' rule change.

[Monk]

Ha, they didn't even change the graphics from AGOT.

All told, does Project Balance change more or less than E&B, Monk?

In a broad sense it changes much more than my mod but does so in the same style I would mod in. Lots of little changes that add up to a better whole. PB used to be completely obnoxious in the trait restrictions/balance methods but it's a lot more reasonable these days. It probably helps that Meneth is one of the more approachable modders on the pdox forums and is actually willing to take feedback.

Overall PB leads to smaller retinue sizes, slower expansion of centralized crown powers and increases the difficulty for powers to blob effectively. After TOG's release it's very nearly the best mod for CK2, if not the best imo.

[Hooahguy]

Im thinking about getting one or more of the DLCs when the steam summer sale happens. Is the Old Gods DLC worth it? Any other worthy DLCs? No interest in playing as a muslim ruler though.

[edyzmedieval]

I just noticed Crusader Kings on Steam the other way, and got intrigued by it. Managing a kingdom/empire is definitely one of my favourite aspects of Total War, hence my interest.

So I'm asking the fans - do you heartily recommend it?

[B-Wing]

Managing a kingdom/empire is definitely one of my favourite aspects of Total War, hence my interest.

So I'm asking the fans - do you heartily recommend it?

I say it's definitely a worthwhile game to check out, if you don't mind the steep learning curve. It is an entirely different game from Medieval Total War, despite the similar setting. I haven't played the vanilla game in nearly a year, so I may not be up to speed on the improvements made by DLC updates, but there are two things I feel are worth pointing out:

(1) The game constantly throws difficult decisions at you to make which have serious impacts on your economy and/or character development. Most are minor, but some are quite important. Often times, none of your possible outcomes are favorable, and the random outcomes of these random events can absolutely derail your character and kingdom/duchy/empire. Some people love the challenge and "realism" presented by this lack of control, but I personally find them needlessly frustrating.

(2) There's nothing you can do to control the outcomes of battles. You can choose the number of troops to form your army with and select the general(s), but once the battle is engaged, you just watch the numbers dwindle. I find this rather unsatisfying, but again it just depends on how much control/influence you feel the need to have over the game.

Despite my gripes with these aspects, the overall experience is definitely worth delving into if management is one of your favorite aspects of TW. Just be prepared to deal with a lot of characters who very much have their own goals and personalities.

[edyzmedieval]

That's what I'm looking for, micro-management. One of the things I wish for more in TW games is micro-management, hence why I asked about Crusader Kings.

[Hooahguy]

That's what I'm looking for, micro-management. One of the things I wish for more in TW games is micro-management, hence why I asked about Crusader Kings.

Well if thats the case, definitely get CKII. Though I would wait until the Steam summer sale, probably will happen in a month.

[rickinator9]

Well if thats the case, definitely get CKII. Though I would wait until the Steam summer sale, probably will happen in a month.

or 2.

[Hooahguy]

or 2.

The summer sale is usually in mid to late July.

Anyhow I had a fantastic comeback. My last king died at age 30, leaving behind an heir who was just 6 years old. I already had levies up because I anticipated problems, and was able to put down the civil war that followed. Then my grandmother died, giving me claims on a large part of Scotland, which I proceeded to capture. Now I am King of Scotland. Absolutely spectacular how I started the game in lower Ireland, became King of Ireland, then became King of Ireland and Scotland, then was taken way down to just a duke, and worked my way back up to King of Scotland. While Im still a member of the English Empire, I am deciding whether or not independence is worth it. Im saving up to pay for some mercenaries so Ill have a fighting chance if the time for war ever comes.

[Myth]

As a strategy gamer who is always looking for a medieval setting to play in I'd say CK2 is great. Very, very imersive and realistic. Also, if you're the type of player who, like me, likes to autoresolve once he gets big enough in a Total War game, due to laziness to lead battles when obviously the AI can't tip the player faction over, then CKII is the way to go!

In regards to battles, I've found that when fighting european stacks raised by the AI, heavy infantry really matter. When you have access to masses of horse archers, those pretty much trump anything but really dedicated heavy cav armies. Also, the terrain traits give a huge bonus. Flat Terrain/Mountain Terrain expert really make a difference, it can especially be seen when you get it mid battle and you see how the enemy army gets depleted twice as fast.

I have a huge list of things that I want changed to improve CKII, but that's basically just making an awesome game even more awesome, they are in no way game breaking or anything. Anyway, my list:

- Make Baron revolts more meaningful, allow them to generate armies on the map and recruit mercs/get some adventurer support.
- Lower the opinion towards the liege for the neighbouring barons/mayors/bishops in a province if there is one of their rank rebelling in that province.
- Tyranny should be visible to the other monarchs on the map and not magically disappear if you banish or kill all those who had witnessed it.
- Severe tyrannical actions should give a negative trait.
- Matrilenial betrothals should be honoured by the AI or the AI should get a penalty when changing its mind once the boy turns 16.
- You should be able to see the laws in a realm you select. (if this is possible I don't know how to do it)
- Claim fabrication should give a negative opinion towards the one fabricating it, it's basically stealing land and it should be viewed negatively.
- When searching for characters you should be able to choose a combination of desired traits the character must possess.
- Characters should ask less frequently to be granted land if all available land for the liege to give is within their demesne limit. However, if the liege is over his demesne limit or if he has the money to build a new holding, characters should insist more.
- Unrest in provinces should gradually increase over long periods of non-stop war.
- When warring over a claim on a single county the attacking army can occupy it and be given a timer. If several years pass without the original owner of the county coming to remove the occupants, ownership of the county should be transferred to the aggressor, thus making it more likely for smaller realms to take "bites' out of juggernauts like the HRE.
- An army should be allowed to fortify it's position at a cost of gold, thus increasing the defensive bonus it gets. However this should take time, and returning back to "mobile mode" should not be instant, thus making this a liability if another army is actively pillaging across your realm.
- Besieging a county which borders only enemy territories or a coastal county which does not have an adequate fleet in the body of water it borders should give greater attrition to the besieging army.
- Infant mortality rate should be made much higher if the current birth rate remains.
- Christian rulers should be pressured by the pope to be more virtuous.
- Bishops should dislike the seven deadly sins more severely and not raise in support of sinful lieges.
- Allow the building of monasteries in provinces. They should provide a huge technology boost, a large piety boost and the option to send unmarried daughters to a monastery. For male rulers, they should afford the option to atone of one of the seven deadly sins at a cost of time spent away from governing the realm.
- Daughters should have the "Virgin" trait upon birth. Lustful daughters should have a large chance of disobeying their fathers and losing their virginity to some random idiot from court. Daughters who are not virgins have a severely lowered chance to be accepted as marriage material and no chance to be married of matrilenially to a ruler of Duke level higher.
- Daughters should have a chance to fall in love with random characters and ask your permission to marry them. If you refuse, they can have the option to running away with their new husband (or absconding to his court). The shy and chaste traits should reduce the chance of this happening.
- Sons should have the option of starting a love affair with random courters (especially your own), thus deflowering them (and lessening their value) and possibly angering their respective liege. Again, the chaste/shy traits should lower the chance of this happening.
- Rulers should have an increased chance of seeking a young lover as they grow older. Traits like lustful, attractive (for the lover), ugly (for their spouse) should change the probability, as should Chaste and Celibate.
- Greatly educe the chance of characters aspiring to a council position if they are only 1 point better than the current councillor. Exponantially increase the chance with each point the character exceeds the current councillor. Ambitious characters should attempt to sway your mind in various ways, including seduction, bribing and killing the current councillor (if he is not a powerful feudal lord).
- Homosexual characters set to educate a child SHOULD NOT make that child homosexual unless you want to include stuff like child abuse and paedophilia in the game.
- Women who are not direct rulers should be able to take on 3 wards, men who are rulers only 1.
- Characters who have educated two or more children should get a trait which allows them further slots to take on the education of more wards, and also allow a greater chance of their traits to "rub off" on the child.
- Allow for the removal of the "possessed" trait via exorcism, at a steep piety cost. Allow the trait to resurface in characters.


There is plenty more which I can suggest, but I have to cut off for now (work, work).

[naut]

When searching for characters you should be able to choose a combination of desired traits the character must possess.

Matchmaker. Standalone tool, I don't know if there is a more recent version out there.

[naut]

Nice! Who'd you start as?

[Beskar]

That's what I'm looking for, micro-management. One of the things I wish for more in TW games is micro-management, hence why I asked about Crusader Kings.

CK2 is mostly character driven.

However, EU4 should be out in August too, which is more about the 'embodiment of a nation', though EU3 is a good game and still play it quite often (with mods).

[Hooahguy]

Is the Legacy of Rome DLC worth it? I dont have an interest in playing as the Byzantines, but I like the concept of a standing army.

[Chaotix]

Is the Legacy of Rome DLC worth it? I dont have an interest in playing as the Byzantines, but I like the concept of a standing army.

Retinues are definitely a game-changer. I can't say whether they make the game more or less deep in terms of strategy, but they definitely change things up. I think it's also probably the way the developers mean for the game to be played.

Every culture does get it's own unique retinue type, so you don't have to play as the Byzantines to get something out of the DLC.

That said, if you don't actually want to play as the Byzantines... I honestly don't know if it's worth buying just for the retinues. Maybe get it when it's on sale, if at all?

[Hooahguy]

Retinues are definitely a game-changer. I can't say whether they make the game more or less deep in terms of strategy, but they definitely change things up. I think it's also probably the way the developers mean for the game to be played.

Every culture does get it's own unique retinue type, so you don't have to play as the Byzantines to get something out of the DLC.

That said, if you don't actually want to play as the Byzantines... I honestly don't know if it's worth buying just for the retinues. Maybe get it when it's on sale, if at all?

Yeah, I plan to get it when it goes on sale for the steam summer sale. But thats so far away from now...

EDIT: Impulse/gamespot had it on sale already, though Old Gods isnt on sale yet so Ill wait for that.

[B-Wing]

I'm presently debating whether or not to go ahead and get The Old Gods now or wait for a sale. The idea of trying to create an Irish kingdom at the new start date is very enticing.

[Hooahguy]

So after much fighting and taking advantage of an already weak English empire, I succeeded from England, creating a free Scotland. Obviously this didnt sit well with the English empress but what was she gonna do, as her armies were depleted and Im awesome. Anyhow, later on I set up my heir to marry the non-dynastic heir of the English empire. Then the king I was playing as died and I assassinated the old empress of England so now my queen was also Empress of England. So now my heir can unite both England and Scotland into one happy empire under my command. The Dunkeld dynasty has gone from lowly dukes to possible emperors, this game is amazing.

EDIT: Also, because the Empress of England is my wife, she cant declare war on me so England isnt a threat.

I really gotta take a picture of this.

[Myth]

I started as a Count in Burgundy. Took the petty Kingdom, then took all the counties near Savoy due to some breaking off of HRE vassals. With two Ducal titles now under my name (had to reform the Duchy of Savoy unfortunately), I created the true Kingdom of Burgundy. Now I'm waiting for the death of either the King of France or the Emperor of the HRE so if their vassals break off I can forge a claim and press on. Currently due to some marriage and inheritance issues I took some counties in northern Italy, so my Kingdom is growing. Too bad that from Primagenitor sucession in the petty kingdom we are now Gavelkind and raising Crown Authority is a tedious process.

[Chaotix]

I've noticed that at a certain point, Crown Authority just isn't worth raising. Medium seems to be the sweet spot unless you have a very stable and wealthy realm.

Yeah, the only reason to raise crown authority above medium is if you want Primogeniture. And then you should probably drop it back down again.

Gameplay-wise, Elective is probably better anyway, if slightly risky. But a lot of times for role-play reasons I'll go for Primo anyway.

[Myth]

Primogeniture is thee only acceptable way for me. Also, these claimants/adventurers are really getting on my nerves.

[komnenos]

I've noticed that at a certain point, Crown Authority just isn't worth raising. Medium seems to be the sweet spot unless you have a very stable and wealthy realm.

But I think it's better to raise your crown authority because most of the factions will be busy to lower this law. This will cause to make their faction goals busy and in this way you will forbidden them to think about other dangerous titles of their faction goal.
For example you'll see less factions about making elective system or put someone instead of you and so on.
So I prefer to always increase this law even if above medium.

[rickinator9]

But I think it's better to raise your crown authority because most of the factions will be busy to lower this law. This will cause to make their faction goals busy and in this way you will forbidden them to think about other dangerous titles of their faction goal.
For example you'll see less factions about making elective system or put someone instead of you and so on.
So I prefer to always increase this law even if above medium.

Unless they changed this, vassals can be in multiple factions at once.

[Hooahguy]

Alright, my current kingdom in all its glory:


Yes I do own the bottom tip of Ireland, not sure how I got it.

Although a few months after this screenshot was taken my heir's betrothal to the Princess and heir of Brittany was broken due to her father throwing her in prison and removing her from the line of succession so I think I can net him a better wife.