Crusader Kings II

[rvg]

Are there any long term drawbacks to reducing the number of duchies in the realm?

I'm still on my first CK2 game. Started out as Heinrich of HRE just so that I could learn the game mechanics without being killed, and lo and behold, 120 years/3 emperors later I'm still playing it. Anyway, I hate dukes. They're nothing but trouble. They scheme and they plot and then they scheme some more. They lead/join factions especially when a new emperor takes over and generally refuse to cooperate with me. So nowadays, whenever a duke rebels, I crush his little rebellion, revoke his duchy and immediately destroy it. I can eat the -50 rep hit with a few counts without a problem, but are there any other issues I should be aware of?

[Chaotix]

Are there any long term drawbacks to reducing the number of duchies in the realm?

I'm still on my first CK2 game. Started out as Heinrich of HRE just so that I could learn the game mechanics without being killed, and lo and behold, 120 years/3 emperors later I'm still playing it. Anyway, I hate dukes. They're nothing but trouble. They scheme and they plot and then they scheme some more. They lead/join factions especially when a new emperor takes over and generally refuse to cooperate with me. So nowadays, whenever a duke rebels, I crush his little rebellion, revoke his duchy and immediately destroy it. I can eat the -50 rep hit with a few counts without a problem, but are there any other issues I should be aware of?

Hmm... Only that the starting size of the HRE is about as big as you can get with mostly Counts, and if you expand and want to keep it that way it's going to get ridiculous.

Generally, Counts are easier to deal with individually than Dukes, but a pain to deal with as a group. For instance, say your realm, the HRE, consists of about 20 de jure Duchies. It's probably a little bit more than that, but this will suffice. You can (and should) hold two of those Duchies yourself, and as much land within them as possible. Then, say all your vassals are Duke-level: you have 18 vassals to deal with, total.

There are usually 2-6 counties in a Duchy. If you remove all the Duchies, suddenly you will find yourself with around 50-75 direct vassals instead of 18. They are all weaker, yes, but if they all dislike you they are much harder to bribe or threaten off wholesale than a bunch of Dukes.

With the HRE in particular, things are a little different since you have Elective monarchy, and Counts can't vote. So getting rid of Dukes you don't like can help you maintain the succession. If you change from Elective to Primogeniture, you won't have to worry about that. At that point it's probably a better idea to give Duke titles to your enemies' former vassals after you revoke them - turning an enemy into an ally, or at the very least keeping them busy. The only time I would really worry about vassals is if they start to get multiple Duke titles, as then they can form Kingdoms, and you don't want that. In particular, Bohemia can be a pain since they are not your culture, but I figure 120 years in they have either converted to German or you've successfully dealt with them.

[rvg]

...There are usually 2-6 counties in a Duchy. If you remove all the Duchies, suddenly you will find yourself with around 50-75 direct vassals instead of 18. They are all weaker, yes, but if they all dislike you they are much harder to bribe or threaten off wholesale than a bunch of Dukes...

122 vassals and counting... As for Bohemia, I asked my vassal the Pope to excomm the Bohemian Queen, tried to arrest her, she rebelled. Crushed her rebellion, revoked her Kingdom, then destroyed it.

[rvg]

If you have The Old Gods, the new tech system relies on Duchies to generate tech points. Basically, if a county isn't organized into a Duchy, it won't get any more advanced without sending the spymaster to steal tech from someone else.

Hmm... that just might be the reason for me to get TOG. Didn't plan on buying it since I had no interest in playing a Pagan faction, but that new mechanic is intriguing.

Without the Old Gods, the biggest reason to create duchies is vassal management. Yes, Counts are easy to control, but what can they do? In a civil war they'll get annexed by your neighbors. With High Crown Authority or lower, where vassals can still wage war, counts aren't going to get you very much new land. The only plus is easy squashing during times of rebelliousness (like during the early reign of a bad king).

Yeah, civil wars suck. I have basically promised myself to never ever allow a civil war to happen, i.e. every time I see a faction gather up more than 15% of my strength, I excomm/arrest its leader.

[Chaotix]

If you have The Old Gods, the new tech system relies on Duchies to generate tech points. Basically, if a county isn't organized into a Duchy, it won't get any more advanced without sending the spymaster to steal tech from someone else.

So, if you can at all afford to do so, it is a good idea to create vassal duchies. Kings are entirely optional, and I tend to go without them, but some people prefer them for organizational purposes. In the end, you're going to have a civil war one way or the other--the plus is that you get to choose what it will look like well in advance.

Without the Old Gods, the biggest reason to create duchies is vassal management. Yes, Counts are easy to control, but what can they do? In a civil war they'll get annexed by your neighbors. With High Crown Authority or lower, where vassals can still wage war, counts aren't going to get you very much new land. The only plus is easy squashing during times of rebelliousness (like during the early reign of a bad king).

Good call on both the tech and annexed rebels, I forgot these points myself during my explanation.

Civil wars are almost impossible to avoid, but with high diplomacy you can usually prevent them from being too terrible. Being able to choose your heir with Elective (as in the HRE) is also a good way to ensure a smooth succession.

[Myth]

I have all the DLCs, I know that the tech system was different before (you could only favour which tech to get). I didn't know that Duchies mattered however. Inspired by these here posts, I started a game as the Jarl of Oppland (I think. The one who has modern day Denmark's capital). My life was all fun and games. First, the sons of Lodbrok asked who's face I would like to smash. I chose the Anglo-Saxon kingdom between Scotland and Wessex (so between Scotland and what appears to be London, Oxford, Winchester etc.) They died handily. Then I returned and told my neighbour to the east that I'm forming the Kindom of Denmark. It took some axe-to-the-face persuasion, but in the end he saw things my way.

Now a Kingdom, i raised Crown Authority to the paltry next-to-lowest state which I'm allowed and went to Ivar the Bonless's spineless son and informed him that from this day onward, Jorvik is part of the Kingdom of Denmark. A short debate involving axes and faces later, he too saw things my way.

Then I began playing "just the tip" with Wessex, chomping at their counties one at a time. They got the big idea of starting a holy war or two against me and failed miserably. Scotland also tried a holy war. Once.

Meanwhile i had some news shoved into my face, because I play CK2 on the highest speed setting usually, and normally have the political awareness of a potato. It turned out Sweden had formed, and for some reason we had East Fancia as a grey blob encompassing what I would call the height of the HRE's achievements - Capua to the south, my very borders to the north, a border with France and Lotharingia to the west (lotharingia was then promptly eaten by West Francia Grey Holly Roman Wannabee). To the east the Cumans and (surprise) my own Bulgarian Kingdom were having a hayday and the Basileos of the ERE was mainly preoccupied with not dying with his head impaled on a Bulgarian, Cuman or Arab spear. Strange, since someone reported that the ERE has a CB on everyone and anyone and it tends to blob like crazy with the Old Gods on.

So, anyway, It took some executins and encouragement to go join the Varangian guard to kill of all but one of my sons (pity the good one died young). I've been able to successfully emulate primageniture with Denmark this way. But I'm having trouble with the dukedoms of Jorvik and Pomerania, because thier leaders are always fighting someone within my borders. And that Pomeraninan bastard switched to Christianity and now half the time he is leading a faction to rebel against me. It also appears that I can't revoke a Ducal title without good reason.

I have two questions about this: do i absolutely have to form ducal titles? I can create 11 I think. I can also create the Kingdom of England and the Kingdom of Pomerania. Do I need to do so? How will Ducal titles benefit my technology? I've been stealing tech for 100 years already and I've slowly gotten pretty advanced.

I took a look at this whole "reforming the Norse faith" thing, but since I don't have the holy sites i can't do it yet. So I just subjugated Pomerania instead (hence the issues i mentioned above). And just as Sweden had fractured after an abysmal succession crisis and I eyed them and my good friend Fairhair's Ostlandet, suddenly, out of nowhere, East Francia started spamming Holy Wars at me. 20k stacks coming at me and that attrition bonus ain't what it used to be apparently. Now I have to huddle and wait for them in a province with rivers just to have a fighting chance. That, or spare 1000 gold in assassinations to get rid of their King. But I want to have a more permanent solution for them. Any suggestions? I'd take the usual subtle axe-to-the-face approach but they have more faces (and more axes) than myself, and they are mostly landlocked so I can't go all boats and scallywags on them.

Also, apparently I can call invasions and I didn't make use of this mechanic yet apart from the Lodbrok event. Would that help me do it?

[komnenos]

So now I want to ask you about your best record. What's your highest score in this game(without any cheating!)?

[Chaotix]

So now I want to ask you about your best record. What's your highest score in this game(without any cheating!)?

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Not an exact answer, but I'm pretty sure that's my best. I stopped playing after that screenshot.

174,000 + 8,000 combined Prestige/Piety of my current ruler makes ~182,000.

[rickinator9]

So now I want to ask you about your best record. What's your highest score in this game(without any cheating!)?

The El Cid Game. While not all my doing, it was certainly an achievement to keep that shit together.