Army neccesities.

[jirisys]

Look, I put a cute topic icon. I'm awesome.

*Ahem*

So, I was wondering. Battles lasted hours. Marching, even more. Sieges, hell. Sea faring, quite easy to figure out.

-Where did everyone piss? I mean, in battle, where your clothes were stained in blood, sweat and bowels; did it even matter if you pissed yourself? What about the back ranks? What about when you were marching? Did you have to run to the nearest bush and then back into formation?

-When and from where did you drink in the middle of battle (assuming you're in the front lines)? It's easy to figure out on the other situations, but auxiliares in the front lines with small goat stomachs containing water is a very dumb way to lose men. Though there's the possibility you would be dead even before you were thirsty.

-When were the wounded soldiers (that were not killed by the enemy) carried away from battle? Say you're shot with a javelin to the omoplatos (scapula, for the latins), and you can't move, but you're in the middle of your crazed fellowmen. What do you do? Well, if you don't get trampled, of course. Will you stay there till you bleed out or till the battle is over (whichever one is quicker)?

I am certain there's no information about these little details. But it's fun if we all grasp hands and think about it.

~Jirisys ()

[Shadowwalker]

Can't answer all questions but here are my thoughts:

-Where did everyone piss? I mean, in battle, where your clothes were stained in blood, sweat and bowels; did it even matter if you pissed yourself? What about the back ranks? What about when you were marching? Did you have to run to the nearest bush and then back into formation?

I don't think that this problem was too evident (unless the battle lasted half a day or longer). There's a quite stunning system "built-in" in (not only) humans.
Have a look for "sympathetic/parasympathetic nervous system".
And in addition from sources of later times there is quite a few hints that emptying your bladder was a "standard" part of battle preparation...

-When were the wounded soldiers (that were not killed by the enemy) carried away from battle? Say you're shot with a javelin to the omoplatos (scapula, for the latins), and you can't move, but you're in the middle of your crazed fellowmen. What do you do? Well, if you don't get trampled, of course. Will you stay there till you bleed out or till the battle is over (whichever one is quicker)?

From what I read I'd assume that usually the wounded as well as the dead were take care of after a battle, and soldiers belonging to the winning side usually having a better chance to be rescued.
I remember reading about a certain battle between Romani and some (Celt?)Iberian tribe that was a draw with heavy losses to both sides. The romans however managed to secretly remove quite a lot of their ead/severly wounded soldiers during the following night so that to the Iberians that came the next morning it seemed as if their losses had been much more numerous. Due to this they considered the battle lost and gave up.
It's only assuming but this seems to hint that wounded/dead were (usually) more or less ignored during a battle.
After all there was no such thing as a "Red Cross/Crescent" in ancient times...

~Jirisys ()[/QUOTE]

[FinnishedBarbarian]

Wouldn't most of the wounded die/lose limbs because of the infections if left without care for hours? Afterall there weren't antibiotics during those times so it would sound logical to extract those soldiers who weren't out of reach as quick as possible.

[Ca Putt]

And in addition from sources of later times there is quite a few hints that emptying your bladder was a "standard" part of battle preparation...

Somewhat reminds me of Family trips or a german comedy movie where the evil cowboy tells his minions: "Well, now everyone go to the loo and then we'll start riding“.

-When were the wounded soldiers (that were not killed by the enemy) carried away from battle? Say you're shot with a javelin to the omoplatos (scapula, for the latins), and you can't move, but you're in the middle of your crazed fellowmen. What do you do? Well, if you don't get trampled, of course. Will you stay there till you bleed out or till the battle is over (whichever one is quicker)?

I'd imagine that depend on 4 things: type of battle (in a hoplite pushing match you can hardly do anything for your wounded), the Commanders orders(duh), Unit type/role, and the individual soldiers attitude.
So I could imagine that an archer would drag his comrade (who took an arrow to the knee) to the back of the formation give him a stone pillow, say something movie like and go back into formation, hoping the commander did not see the whole thing. Afterall in antiquity war was a part of "everyday life" for many peoples and I'd fancy If possible you'd get your buddy out of problems once a while.
Don't get me wrong there were not generally more or biggers wars in antiquity(something you hear 24/7 on all history channels) they just involved larger percentages of of the population making it part of many peoples lifes. Tbh I can only think of 4 men of whom I know they were "participating" in a war and of those one is a technician, one a junior officer, one (was) a flak boy who never saw the frontline and one a Medic. Something unthinkable in Antiquity and not just because these roles were rather uncommon in hellenistic armies.
To get back to topic: I believe that from time to time you'd see a guy dragging out a comrade but the standard procedure was to just leave them where they fell and try to ignore them.

A human can survive 3 days without water, with all the swet involved in battles It'd most likely not hold as long in a battle but the actual engagement often only takes minutes. When standing on opposing hills 500 meters apart It's perfectly possible to "pass the water" and this was most likely the most time consuming part of most battles. If the actual fighting really took 5 hours I'd fancy the main problem would be attrition rather than thirst as even fighting with little more than a tunic and maybe a ranged weapon for several hours tires quite a lot.
Additionally I'd like to say that there are accounts that state Soldiers drank blood after battle, this may be true or may not be true but it shows that it was considered normal for soliders not to drink during battle but wait until the fighting was over.

[Klemens]

From what I've read, I imagine fighting is a series of attacks and counterattacks between battalions which is why it can last for hours. It's been recorded that during battles enemy battalions have called truces to pick up their wounded. In the battle of Thermopylae for example, when Leonidas was killed all the Spartans fought to take his body back - which seems to me that Hoplites can quickly break ranks and reform. Now you ask "what about the phalangites?" In my opinion the less straining experience of fighting in a closed phalanx with sarissas allowed the soldiers to last in formation for many hours longer. Roman authors have described the phalanx as "an unstoppable advance" which only supports the idea that phalangites stood in formation all battle and kept putting pressure on exhausted battalions.

Rome total war fails to represent the "baggage" that follows an army. Hoplites had squires and legionaries must have had their retinue (although I believe it may have been other legionaries due to the flexible nature of a cohort), non combatants that would risk popping out of the front line to pick up the wounded. So imagine men in formed ranks, with non-uniformed noncombatants running around them and generally staying out of the fighting. I don't see how a battle can last for six hours or more when modern day reenactors get exhausted after a 5 minute sprint in full bronze. There must have been (and its been recorded) lulls in a battle between battalions.

[moonburn]

a maniple of 10 contained 8 legionaires and 2 servents i´ve read somewhere

as for drinking and getting tired and what to do if you´re wounded i believe that those are secondary to winning the damm thing if you win you get time to attend the wounded if you loose you can´t be bothered to be delayed by the injured

[Frtigern]

I don't think if I was a soldier in standing in front I would want the rank behind me peeing all over me, during battle. More comfort = better performance. Perhaps some armies had jars that the rear ranks would pass up and then do their duty in and then pass it to the side or to the rear, to be either, dumped in whole, tossed over the walls, or in a cart to be hauled away when full. Then it would be the next soldier's turn. I could definitely see it as a youth or a slave job, and their job wouldn't be restricted to sending jars and fetching waste, but also sending jars full of water, food and ammunition if needed. As an army is only as good as it's support.

[jirisys]

I don't think if I was a soldier in standing in front I would want the rank behind me peeing all over me, during battle. More comfort = better performance.

Me neither, but I wouldn't want the guy in front to crush my skull with an axe either. You can't have everything in life .

~Jirisys ()