Results 1 to 30 of 407

Thread: The trial of Anders Behring Breivik

Hybrid View

Previous Post Previous Post   Next Post Next Post
  1. #1
    Dux Nova Scotia Member lars573's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Halifax NewScotland Canada
    Posts
    4,114

    Default Re: The trial of Anders Behring Breivik

    Quote Originally Posted by Greyblades View Post
    ...Why would they need new legislation, isn't intentional mass murder enough to get him life without parole?
    Which would mean he'd be released free and clear by 2030 (assuming his trial only takes a year). You see in Norway the maximum someone can be imprisoned for is 17 years. Not a second longer, no matter what crime you were convicted of.
    If you havin' skyrim problems I feel bad for you son.. I dodged 99 arrows but my knee took one.

    VENI, VIDI, NATES CALCE CONCIDI

    I came, I saw, I kicked ass

  2. #2
    Darkside Medic Senior Member rory_20_uk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Taplow, UK
    Posts
    8,690
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default Re: The trial of Anders Behring Breivik

    Quote Originally Posted by lars573 View Post
    Which would mean he'd be released free and clear by 2030 (assuming his trial only takes a year). You see in Norway the maximum someone can be imprisoned for is 17 years. Not a second longer, no matter what crime you were convicted of.
    Try him concurrently?

    An enemy that wishes to die for their country is the best sort to face - you both have the same aim in mind.
    Science flies you to the moon, religion flies you into buildings.
    "If you can't trust the local kleptocrat whom you installed by force and prop up with billions of annual dollars, who can you trust?" Lemur
    If you're not a liberal when you're 25, you have no heart. If you're not a conservative by the time you're 35, you have no brain.
    The best argument against democracy is a five minute talk with the average voter. Winston Churchill

  3. #3
    master of the pwniverse Member Fragony's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    The EUSSR
    Posts
    30,680

    Default Re: The trial of Anders Behring Breivik

    Life in prison actually means just that here gladly, you will never get out if you get that verdict

  4. #4
    One of the Undutchables Member The Stranger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Nowhere...
    Posts
    11,757

    Default Re: The trial of Anders Behring Breivik

    just do like the americans do and give him 900 years in prison and 15 life sentences.

    We do not sow.

  5. #5
    Hǫrðar Member Viking's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Hordaland, Norway
    Posts
    6,449

    Default Re: The trial of Anders Behring Breivik

    Quote Originally Posted by lars573 View Post
    Which would mean he'd be released free and clear by 2030 (assuming his trial only takes a year). You see in Norway the maximum someone can be imprisoned for is 17 years. Not a second longer, no matter what crime you were convicted of.
    Actually, it is 21 years - and that is the punishment. You can be kept in prison for the rest of your life if you are deemed a danger to society (re-evaluated every 5 years).

    Quote Originally Posted by Gelatinous Cube View Post
    Even worse.

    *Don't get me wrong, this dude deserves to rot and/or hang, but just the fact that a peice of vague and creepy legislation that might violate all of your human rights came out of it means that he won, and Norway lost. Sorry dudes.
    It depends on the politicians' intent. The title I translated was probably misleading. The idea is if they expect someone to be assassinated/attacked when his time as a patient is over (depending on what the upcoming new psychiatric assessment concludes, he is likely to be sentenced to forced treatment). One would think that, as a free citizen, one has a right to police protection. Otherwise, it becomes part of the punishment rather than protection (not that psychiatric treatment is supposed to be punishment in the first place).

    A complaint has been filed to the civil ombudsman (from the part of the article that I did not translate).
    Last edited by Viking; 03-23-2012 at 13:06. Reason: missing word
    Runes for good luck:

    [1 - exp(i*2π)]^-1

  6. #6
    master of the pwniverse Member Fragony's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    The EUSSR
    Posts
    30,680

    Default Re: The trial of Anders Behring Breivik

    GC has a point and that is how some will see it, but imho it's unfair. It should be obvious to anyone that this guy should never walk the streets again just because an atrocity like this was never considered when they made the laws. Was it really just a crime really, or is he just evil.

  7. #7
    master of the pwniverse Member Fragony's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    The EUSSR
    Posts
    30,680

    Default Re: The trial of Anders Behring Breivik

    GC has a point and that is how some will see it, but imho it's unfair. It should be obvious to anyone that this guy should never walk the streets again just because an atrocity like this was never considered when they made the laws. Was it really just a crime really, or is he just evil.

  8. #8
    Hǫrðar Member Viking's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Hordaland, Norway
    Posts
    6,449

    Default Re: The trial of Anders Behring Breivik

    That new law thing made it to the BBC now, and as far as I can see, they included some crucial details (bolded by me) that the article I linked to earlier somehow forgot to include (lulz). Excerpt:

    Norway is rushing through laws to ensure that Anders Behring Breivik is kept in a new, top security hospital if a court finds him criminally insane.

    The law would allow patients to be locked up for as long as police found they were "in danger of being attacked by someone seeking revenge".

    Patients would not be kept in the unit for more than six months at a time.

    After that period, medical staff would need approval to extend the stay, or transfer the patient to another unit.

    This mental health bill has been in the making since 2010.

    But last year's 22 July attacks accelerated the process and resulted in an urgent review of the health care system with respect to violent and dangerous patients.

    The legislation is designed to accommodate the care of Breivik in the event a verdict finds him criminally insane.


    Ila high security prison in Norway, where Breivik is being held
    The bill says the law would apply in special circumstances whereby "a patient may have committed grave, atrocious and offensive acts, such as mass murder".

    [...]

    Opponents of the bill have expressed concerns that Norway risks ending up with draconian laws that could compromise the human rights of mental health patients and transfer too much power to police.
    Runes for good luck:

    [1 - exp(i*2π)]^-1

  9. #9
    Arena Senior Member Crazed Rabbit's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Between the Mountain and the Sound
    Posts
    11,074
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default Re: The trial of Anders Behring Breivik

    They caught some would be terrorist crossing into the USA from Canada with a bunch of bomb making materials.

    He was sentenced to 22 years in prison - a sentence that was overturned for being too lenient.

    There's a lot wrong with the US legal system, but I think one shouldn't cap sentences at 21 years for all crimes.

    They share the same world-view, and thus Breivik cannot be insane as they are sane, is the logic.
    Would that help his case at all though?

    CR
    Ja Mata, Tosa.

    The poorest man may in his cottage bid defiance to all the forces of the Crown. It may be frail; its roof may shake; the wind may blow through it; the storm may enter; the rain may enter; but the King of England cannot enter – all his force dares not cross the threshold of the ruined tenement! - William Pitt the Elder

  10. #10
    master of the pwniverse Member Fragony's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    The EUSSR
    Posts
    30,680

    Default Re: The trial of Anders Behring Breivik

    What I don't understand is why it's treated as one crime, casualties in Oslo died because of an explosion, a bomb is one crime. But the rampage on that island are 76 crimes, for each victim he pulled the trigger after all. It would make more sense. I kinda share GC's concerns you can't just change the rules midgame. I fully understand it as this guy should never be released, but it's a slippery slope. These level-headed vikings have a way to good society to let it slip, they can trust eachother there but one ruling always opens up the possibilities. From what I read I agree with Breivik a lot, am I also insane or do we just disagree. Saying something on the internet can also be a crime, am I criminaly insane? I trust Norway's left with it but I certainly don't trust the Dutch left with such a tool, especially after the Wilders trial, they tried to cheat. It blew up in their face, but they tried.

  11. #11
    Silent Ruler Member Dîn-Heru's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Bergen
    Posts
    1,200

    Default Re: The trial of Anders Behring Breivik

    Quote Originally Posted by Fragony View Post
    What I don't understand is why it's treated as one crime, casualties in Oslo died because of an explosion, a bomb is one crime. But the rampage on that island are 76 crimes, for each victim he pulled the trigger after all. It would make more sense.
    I assume (without being a lawyer) that §62 in the penal code is in effect. Basically if someone commits several crimes that each on their own is a criminal offence you get one sentene for all the crimes, but it has to be higher than the minimum punishment would be if the person had done only one of the crimes. Not sure how this is applied when the crimes all qualify for 21 years imprisonment, but I assume you can't go higher than the maximum... So yeah, assuming my interpetation of the law is correct the police treat it as one crime, because that is how it will be judged. (Like I said I am not a lawyer so I don't know the reasoning behind the paragraph)
    Patience is the companion of wisdom.
    --St. Augustine

  12. #12

    Default Re: The trial of Anders Behring Breivik

    Quote Originally Posted by Gelatinous Cube View Post
    I just worry that they'll follow the trend of other countries that have been the victims of terrorism: over-reaction that harms the citizenry more than protects them, potentially to the point of undermining your democratic and citizen-driven society.
    Which is essentially to hand the terrorists a victory; who's winning the war again?
    Ja-mata TosaInu

  13. #13

    Default Re: The trial of Anders Behring Breivik

    Quote Originally Posted by Gelatinous Cube View Post
    Absolutely. Terrorism's goal is, obviously, to create terror. If you're so terrified you that you want to hand over your previously inviolable rights then certainly they win. After all, they don't generally care about their lives--they're out to create havoc and screw things up for idealogical reasons. The only victory a terrorist can have is a political one, why hand it to them?
    Because people value their lives above most everything else. Politicians have "to do something". The incentives all line up. Maybe terrorism is the fundamental weakness to a liberal democracy. Our Charizard is trying to battle against Squirtle but this time Gary is much more determined than Ash.


  14. #14

    Default Re: The trial of Anders Behring Breivik

    Quote Originally Posted by Gelatinous Cube View Post
    Absolutely. Terrorism's goal is, obviously, to create terror. If you're so terrified you that you want to hand over your previously inviolable rights then certainly they win. After all, they don't generally care about their lives--they're out to create havoc and screw things up for idealogical reasons. The only victory a terrorist can have is a political one, why hand it to them?
    I'm curious why you think that's the goal of terrorism. You describe them as very rational.

    Couldn't express what I was trying to say, so I went googling, check this out:

    http://maxabrahms.com/pdfs/DC_250-1846.pdf

  15. #15
    Dux Nova Scotia Member lars573's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Halifax NewScotland Canada
    Posts
    4,114

    Default Re: The trial of Anders Behring Breivik

    Quote Originally Posted by Crazed Rabbit View Post
    They caught some would be terrorist crossing into the USA from Canada with a bunch of bomb making materials.

    He was sentenced to 22 years in prison - a sentence that was overturned for being too lenient.

    There's a lot wrong with the US legal system, but I think one shouldn't cap sentences at 21 years for all crimes.



    Would that help his case at all though?

    CR
    Compared to the rest of the western world the US penal codes are draconian and quite backward.
    If you havin' skyrim problems I feel bad for you son.. I dodged 99 arrows but my knee took one.

    VENI, VIDI, NATES CALCE CONCIDI

    I came, I saw, I kicked ass

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO