First Impressions?

[andrewt]

My biggest first impression is that a lot of the borders of the provinces changed. On the main four islands that was there previously in Shogun 2 and RoTS, I only noticed 2 provinces that are new. However, the borders of just about every province has moved.

I didn't have time to actually play the game and mostly just looked at the tech trees and stats. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the highest tier buildings seem terrible this time around. I think the last gold mine upgrade, for example, is 10000 for a measly 300 additional wealth.

I started a game with Saga but am wondering about the unique units other factions have. Are there any limits to units like Tosa Riflemen and the Red/White/Black Hat infantry and so on?

[Madae]

My biggest first impression is that a lot of the borders of the provinces changed. On the main four islands that was there previously in Shogun 2 and RoTS, I only noticed 2 provinces that are new. However, the borders of just about every province has moved.

The map does seem slightly larger, not just in land mass, but more as if it is "zoomed in" more. There are several new, one province islands though, along with a Kyushu-esque (without a land route to the mainland) island on the other side of the map near the Date starting point.

I didn't have time to actually play the game and mostly just looked at the tech trees and stats. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the highest tier buildings seem terrible this time around. I think the last gold mine upgrade, for example, is 10000 for a measly 300 additional wealth.

I'm going off memory here, but I believe the primary "money-making" upgrade was 1700 -> 2100 or so. Still, you gotta look at it from the long term. Without a gold mine, a province really doesn't make crap to begin with. I had a town with a gold mine making 11,000+ a turn by itself, compared to the 1800 my fully developed capitol was making. There are also several different bonuses that lower the cost of constructing buildings.

I don't agree that "all high-tier buildings" are terrible. Gatlings come from the highest tier artilerry range, Imperial/Shogunate Guard troops from the highest tier infatry buildings, many craft buildings have two routes to develop (better single province, or bonuses faction-wide), etc etc. If you want to upgrade a town completely, you'll probably need a max level police station to keep public order up vs. modernisation.

I started a game with Saga but am wondering about the unique units other factions have. Are there any limits to units like Tosa Riflemen and the Red/White/Black Hat infantry and so on?

There are unique units for each faction, but probably not the ones you're looking for. Tosa did have one - I remember seeing them running around with some - but I was playing Satsuma, and only noticed that I had some "bear-head" infantry that were not quite as good as the second-best (compared to Imperial Guard) Imperial Infantry.

[andrewt]

The map does seem slightly larger, not just in land mass, but more as if it is "zoomed in" more. There are several new, one province islands though, along with a Kyushu-esque (without a land route to the mainland) island on the other side of the map near the Date starting point.

That would be Hokkaido, the second largest island in Japan.

I'm going off memory here, but I believe the primary "money-making" upgrade was 1700 -> 2100 or so. Still, you gotta look at it from the long term. Without a gold mine, a province really doesn't make crap to begin with. I had a town with a gold mine making 11,000+ a turn by itself, compared to the 1800 my fully developed capitol was making. There are also several different bonuses that lower the cost of constructing buildings.

I don't agree that "all high-tier buildings" are terrible. Gatlings come from the highest tier artilerry range, Imperial/Shogunate Guard troops from the highest tier infatry buildings, many craft buildings have two routes to develop (better single province, or bonuses faction-wide), etc etc. If you want to upgrade a town completely, you'll probably need a max level police station to keep public order up vs. modernisation.

I was talking more about the economic buildings rather than the military ones. Some previous CA games like Rome and Medieval 2 were notorious in that the first tier buildings like ports and markets gave huge bonuses but upgrading them were very expensive while providing marginal benefit. At first glance, I found some of the highest tier economic buildings to be very expensive while not looking like they provided much in the way of benefits. Of course, I don't have a game that is far enough yet to build them.

I was wondering if there's something to be said for only building the first 2-3 tiers of mines, factories or other buildings.

There are unique units for each faction, but probably not the ones you're looking for. Tosa did have one - I remember seeing them running around with some - but I was playing Satsuma, and only noticed that I had some "bear-head" infantry that were not quite as good as the second-best (compared to Imperial Guard) Imperial Infantry.

The bear heads come much earlier, though, no? Or at least, that's my theory on what CA intended for them to be upon looking at the tech tree. Tosa does have a unique light infantry unit that's better than the regular sharpshooters.

[Madae]

That would be Hokkaido, the second largest island in Japan.

Totally too lazy to wiki it.

I was wondering if there's something to be said for only building the first 2-3 tiers of mines, factories or other buildings.

I guess that depends on you more than anything. If I'm barely making it by with money in my game, I'll save up the first chance I get and dump it into a building that will increase my revenue. I know it won't pay off for 10+ turns (most buildings of that level take that long), but I'm usually involved in something else at the same time that is taking up my time, such as a war on any particular front. If you haven't made it to the point yet to gauge how much money you're making vs. how much it cost to build certain things, it may be harder to understand. In my case, I'm always looking to bump my economic buildings whenever I have a free moment, regardless of the cost, because I know in the future it will pay off.

Some craft buildings are not worth it though unless you really need it. Coal does provide income, but the primary bonus is for ships. Iron/Steel is for artillery. I only upgrade those if I need it. Silver and Gold mines I will always upgrade, because it is 100% income.

The bear heads come much earlier, though, no? Or at least, that's my theory on what CA intended for them to be upon looking at the tech tree. Tosa does have a unique light infantry unit that's better than the regular sharpshooters.

I believe they were the second to last tier, and came along with the first level of Imperial troops. At first glance, they weren't better than what I compared them to, but maybe I was looking at it wrong. I haven't seen a need for specialty troops like that, yet. The gold of an army is going to be with your artillery anyway, and whatever troops that you can put between them and the enemy will always be a good choice.

[andrewt]

Totally too lazy to wiki it.

I was in Hokkaido for a week last December. Totally worth it to invade just for the food.

[Madae]

I was in Hokkaido for a week last December. Totally worth it to invade just for the food.

Hah.

I totally did just because I could.

[Sp4]

After soem playing..

AI is just as useless as in every TW game.. game looks nice tho \o/