Obamacare Going Down?

[Lemur]

why does you liberty to oppose healthcare trump your neighbours demand for self same right.

I think using the idea of a "right" confuses the issue. Healthcare is not about rights, it's about a common good and a resource which every single one of us will use at some point. Roads, for example, are not a right, but they're an obvious common good, so we all agree to pay for them.

Citizens who are needlessly crippled, too ill to work, or preventably dead are a drain on our whole society. And we do wind up paying for them, one way or another. So it's a self-evident common good for us to work out a fair, equitable and cost-conscious way to distribute and pay for the common good.

[gaelic cowboy]

I think using the idea of a "right" confuses the issue. Healthcare is not about rights, it's about a common good and a resource which every single one of us will use at some point. Roads, for example, are not a right, but they're an obvious common good, so we all agree to pay for them.

Citizens who are needlessly crippled, too ill to work, or dead are a drain on our whole society. And we do wind up paying for them, one way or another. So it's a self-evident common good for us to work out a fair, equitable and cost-conscious way to distribute and pay for the common good.

Indeed common good is more what I am thinking about but where does individual liberty cross swords with common good.

RVG claims his liberty mine ends where his begins and vice versa to be honest I find this to be a wishy washy at best.

How much liberty does each individual get, if I live in Alaska do I have more than someone in Manhattan, RVG would say yes but me I say no just because my actions affect less people in Alaska does not allow me such freedom as to stripmine the whole place.

[rvg]

How much liberty does each individual get, if I live in Alaska do I have more than someone in Manhattan, RVG would say yes but me I say no just because my actions affect less people in Alaska does not allow me such freedom as to stripmine the whole place.

I would appreciate if you let me speak for myself. Okay? Thanks.

[gaelic cowboy]

I would appreciate if you let me speak for myself. Okay? Thanks.

Well how much liberty do you get who decides? does anybody

[rvg]

Well??

Well what?

[gaelic cowboy]

Well what?

How much liberty do you want or need to get.











On an related point but not aimed at yourself RVG to be honest I find a lot of this individual liberty stuff to be pure guff, if you ask me most the people who are saying it are not actually libertarians at all.

Usually it's some GOP reactionary/plutocrat who goes about using there individual liberty as a cover to protect X.

A farmer in Iowa thinks his subsidy is reward for self reliance and protection of X so he calls himself libertarian. Thats all well and good till he goes out and votes to prevent or curb welfare for poor people in the nation as a whole how is that libertarian.

Incidently who was the .ORG member that said they copped the GOP is not actually libertarian and really use the term to fool libertarian voters into givin em the tick.

[rvg]

How much liberty do you want or need to get.

You gotta be more specific.

On an related point but not aimed at yourself RVG to be honest I find a lot of this individual liberty stuff to be pure guff, if you ask me most the people who are saying it are not actually libertarians at all.

Usually it's some GOP reactionary/plutocrat who goes about using there individual liberty as a cover to protect X.

A farmer in Iowa thinks his subsidy is reward for self reliance and protection of X so he calls himself libertarian. Thats all well and good till he goes out and votes to prevent or curb welfare for poor people in the nation as a whole how is that libertarian.

Incidently who was the .ORG member that said they copped the GOP is not actually libertarian and really use the term to fool libertarian voters into givin em the tick.

I do not consider myself a libertarian nor do I belong to the GOP. I oppose Obamacare not out of some partisan reasons but purely based on the reasons discussed earlier in this thread.