quest. reg. the traits/ancillaries documentation - and how to understand it..

[konny]

@konny - ..sorry i dont get it ..maybe my weak english does its part..

I can also explain it in German, even though this would cause me trouble with the other members. So let's give it another try in English:

do you mean that just means: the specific ancillary has not already acquired - if so, this condition apply anyway for all of them.

No. This refers to a Trait which is called "NoMoreAncillaries". It has nothing to do with the hard-coded function that you cannot acquire more than 8 ancillaries.

Let me explain it with your other examples:

acquire_drillmaster
Condition <NoMoreAncillaries> < 1
Condition <DrillmasterAcquired> < 1
Condition not CultureType barbarian
3% Chance: 1 points in <AcquireDrillmaster>

AcquireDrillmaster is a Trait. When a character acquires that trait in export_descr_character_traits (short: EDCT) he will be given the ancillary Drillmaster in export_descr_ancillaries (short: EDA). You can use a couple of things as conditions in EDA for acquisition of ancillaries. Here having the trait acquire_drillmaster is used as condition in order to acquire the ancillary Drillmaster. I could, for example, also say that he has to have the Trait GoodCommander with at least level 2. This would then read like:

Condition Trait GoodCommander > 1

or I say he has to have at least three command stars:

Condition Attribute Command > 2




Now let's look again at the conditions to acquire the Trait AcquireDrillmaster:

Condition <NoMoreAncillaries> < 1
Condition <DrillmasterAcquired> < 1
Condition not CultureType barbarian

NoMoreAncillaries and DrillmasterAcquired are other traits, while "< 1" simply means you don't have them (=less than level 1). We know NoMoreAncillaries from above as a technical trait: your character gets that when he has a certain ammount of ancillaries, depending on his charisma. So the line

Condition <NoMoreAncillaries> < 1

reads you can get it when you don't already have "quite a lot" of ancillaries. It doesn't realy say anything about the character who is going to acquire that ancillary. DrillmasterAcquired in fact is another technical trait, more on that below.

Leaves the line

Condition not CultureType barbarian

as the only true condition. So, this reads: you have a 3% chance to acquire the trait AcquireDrillmaster (what in the end will make you acquire the Drillmaster) when you are not a barbarian. And given that this is cumulative, everyone has quite a high chance to get it. - unless he already has so many other ancillaries that the trait NoMoreAncillaries has fired.

What's next?

drillmaster_has_been_acquired
Condition <AcquireDrillmaster> > 0
100% Chance: 2 points in <DrillmasterAcquired>
100% Chance: 1 points in <NumAncillariesAcquired>
50% Chance: 1 points in Disciplinarian
25% Chance: 1 points in Energetic
25% Chance: 1 points in Authoritarian
100% Chance: 1 points in <ForcedMarchingExpert>

Condition <AcquireDrillmaster> > 0

reads that the Trait AcquireDrillmaster has been acquired. This trait will give him the respective ancillary; but even when it wouldn't do so the following conditions will turn true:

100% Chance: 2 points in <DrillmasterAcquired>

That's the technical trait from above. You remember, you only got the trait AcquireDrillmaster when you didn't had the Trait DrillmasterAcquired, what in the end simply means you only get one when you didn't already had one. (don't worry why that's two points)

100% Chance: 1 points in <NumAncillariesAcquired>

This one adds one point to the Trait NumAncillariesAcquired what in the end leads to the trait NoMoreAncillaries firing, what will prevent you from acquisition of other ancillaries.

50% Chance: 1 points in Disciplinarian
25% Chance: 1 points in Energetic
25% Chance: 1 points in Authoritarian
100% Chance: 1 points in <ForcedMarchingExpert>

These are additional "bonus" traits you get for having acquired a drillmaster: Disciplinarian with a 50% (= 1:1) chance, Energetic and Authoritarian with a 25% chance and ForcedMarchingExpert with a 100% (=guaranteed) chance.

When you character already has a level in one of these traits he will then acquire an additional level in that trait (provided it has more than one level). When you character already has a socalled Antitrait to one of these traits, for example Lazy as antitrait to Energetic, he will lose a level in that antitrait, here he will no longer be lazy.

[Kleitos]

thanks konny - slowly i think i´ll get it. ..no, of course - english here is fine - hope my following here is understandable.

noMoreAncillaries is already (a kind of a) trait?. ...thought until now it´s just a condition. ..if i got it right now: apart from the hard-coded 8 ancillaries limit, <noMoreAncillaries> apply in a case when, dependent of his Charisma, a FM just can´t get any more. ..even when he only has two.?
..but how many ancillaries are granted to him is for me as Player just a hidden secret.?

..so if i make use of swapping around ancillaries and try to give one FM an ancillary and he has acquired this trait <noMoreAncillaries> >1 (not <1) then i can try as much as i would - the number of his retinues will stay as it is.?

..i just started to make use of this - so sooner or later i will have one where i can´t add more Ancillaries (although he has definitely less then 8).

strangely regarding the drillmaster ancillary - in these conditions are no real conditions as i understand them (like for instance good commander or so ..the only real condition is the one: not CultureType barbarian. ..so it seems to me its just a random thing and all greek FM´s actually are able to get this ancillary ...no matter if he´s a proven commander, Governor or just a some Dude.
..so more a matter of luck.

you seem to have a lot of insight in this trait/ancillary system - and i thank you for your detailed description.

you also seem to use this documentation - i must ask you again about the speed of it. ..actually i just cant use it - interesting as it is.. if i try to compare just 3 traits or triggers ...it takes up from 5 to 10 minutes - of course that ruins the fun to make a research there.

is this only a problem i have - or is it known.?

[konny]

noMoreAncillaries is already (a kind of a) trait?

fixed it.

..thought until now it´s just a condition. ..if i got it right now: apart from the hard-coded 8 ancillaries limit, <noMoreAncillaries> apply in a case when, dependent of his Charisma, a FM just can´t get any more. ..even when he only has two.?

You should check the respective files. I think this makes it a bit more easyer to understand:

export_descr_character_traits.txt:

;------------------------------------------
Trait NumAncillariesAcquired
    Characters family
    Hidden

    Level One_Ancillary
        Description Hidden_desc
        EffectsDescription Hidden_effects_desc
        Threshold  1

    Level Two_Ancillaries
        Description Hidden_desc
        EffectsDescription Hidden_effects_desc
        Threshold  2

    Level Three_Ancillaries
        Description Hidden_desc
        EffectsDescription Hidden_effects_desc
        Threshold  3

    Level Four_Ancillaries
        Description Hidden_desc
        EffectsDescription Hidden_effects_desc
        Threshold  4

    Level Five_Ancillaries
        Description Hidden_desc
        EffectsDescription Hidden_effects_desc
        Threshold  5

    Level Six_Ancillaries
        Description Hidden_desc
        EffectsDescription Hidden_effects_desc
        Threshold  6

    Level Seven_Ancillaries
        Description Hidden_desc
        EffectsDescription Hidden_effects_desc
        Threshold  7

    Level Eight_Ancillaries
        Description Hidden_desc
        EffectsDescription Hidden_effects_desc
        Threshold  8


;------------------------------------------
Trait NoMoreAncillaries
    Characters family
    Hidden

    Level No_More_Ancillaries
        Description Hidden_desc
        EffectsDescription Hidden_effects_desc
        Threshold  1

and these are the respective triggers:
[code]
;------------------------------------------
; Turning off ancillary acquisition to cut down on "ancillary farming"
;------------------------------------------
Trigger OneAncillary_at_Start
WhenToTest CharacterTurnStart

Condition AgentType = family
and Trait NumAncillariesAcquired < 1

Affects NumAncillariesAcquired 1 Chance 100

;------------------------------------------
Trigger Cha1_NoMoreAncils
WhenToTest CharacterTurnEnd

Condition Trait NaturalCharisma = 1
and Trait NumAncillariesAcquired = 3

Affects NoMoreAncillaries 1 Chance 100

;------------------------------------------
Trigger Cha2_NoMoreAncils
WhenToTest CharacterTurnEnd

Condition Trait NaturalCharisma = 2
and Trait NumAncillariesAcquired = 4

Affects NoMoreAncillaries 1 Chance 100

;------------------------------------------
Trigger Cha3_NoMoreAncils
WhenToTest CharacterTurnEnd

Condition Trait NaturalCharisma = 3
and Trait NumAncillariesAcquired = 5

Affects NoMoreAncillaries 1 Chance 100

;------------------------------------------
Trigger Cha4_NoMoreAncils
WhenToTest CharacterTurnEnd

Condition Trait NaturalCharisma = 4
and Trait NumAncillariesAcquired = 6

Affects NoMoreAncillaries 1 Chance 100

;------------------------------------------
Trigger Cha5_NoMoreAncils
WhenToTest CharacterTurnEnd

Condition Trait NaturalCharisma = 5
and Trait NumAncillariesAcquired = 7

Affects NoMoreAncillaries 1 Chance 100

;------------------------------------------
Trigger Cha6_NoMoreAncils
WhenToTest CharacterTurnEnd

Condition Trait NaturalCharisma = 6
and Trait NumAncillariesAcquired = 8

Affects NoMoreAncillaries 1 Chance 100[/quote]

While also each ancillary you acquire gives one point in NumAncillariesAcquired:

;------------------------------------------
Trigger normaldruid_has_been_acquired
  WhenToTest CharacterTurnStart

    Condition Trait AcquireDruid = 1

  Affects DruidAcquired  2  Chance  100
  Affects NumAncillariesAcquired  1  Chance  100

..but how many ancillaries are granted to him is for me as Player just a hidden secret.?

you could count his ancillaries for the start.

..so if i make use of swapping around ancillaries and try to give one FM an ancillary and he has acquired this trait <noMoreAncillaries> >1 (not <1) then i can try as much as i would - the number of his retinues will stay as it is.?

Ah, that's an intereseting question: no. These traits NumAncillariesAcquired and NoMoreAncillaries don't really "know" how many ancillaries you have. They are just called for when ancillaries are acquired. So when a character has more or less than that the traits wouldn't work anymore.

so it seems to me its just a random thing and all greek FM´s actually are able to get this ancillary ...no matter if he´s a proven commander, Governor or just a some Dude.
..so more a matter of luck.

when that's the correct yes. I only have the EDCT of EBII on this computer and there the code to acquire the drillmaster is a bit more complex. No idea how it works in EBI.

But yes, there is too much randomness and "sit around in town with..." in the triggers of EBI. That needs to be fixed.

you also seem to use this documentation

No I am checking the txt file with a text editor, what of course is extremly fast.

[Kleitos]

ok - thanks very much - the respective files, this makes it easier to understand. and yes - much quicker!

..alone one has to know (or the idea) where in the files the specific thing is - the clarity of the documentation would be a big help if not so slow when you click on something.

but im gonna browse the files though.