2012 U.S. Presidential Election

[Hooahguy]

Anyone hear the insanely deceitful and flat out wrong (at least thats what Im reading) ad that the Obama campaign put out?

Pity the Romney campaign dropped the ball responding to it. Romney needs to fire his campaign manager ASAP.

[Papewaio]

Dawg your discription of jobs looks to be shaped by the economy you are in. Or you are a salesman.

Here in Aus you could chose to be on welfare for life. Meh
Or
Earn more by stacking shelves
Or
Go to Uni and pay the $8 to $20k most of the Bachelor degrees cost as a tax increase if you in the future earn above a threshold. This loan is CPI indexed until paid off.
Then
You have the choice to be a teacher, a pants salesman, a waitress (we don't tip as a rule as basic wage is far higher here, we do for exceptional service) or whatever takes your fancy. But we don't need to lie as a standard operating procedure to get a job or maintain it. We can always get another one and really only those who have an illness cannot get a job here right now.

Mind you once China stops buying and the Aussie economy tanks I'm sure we will see an increase of tooth and claw activity. But in general if you want to stay employees you had better be good and deliver on expectations. Salesman are the only group that I have seen regularly gloss over items.

[Tuuvi]

First off;

1) That is probably why you still sell pants
2) There is measure in controlled deceit. We tell them some element of the truth so that they look good in the right pants, thereby coming back for more pants and telling their friends how much of a straight shooter pant specialist you were. But when that guy comes in for the 20k pants? You sell him those things and never look back and stamp the receipt "final sale", no matter how they look. But make sure you give him the "discount" and hem them for him "no charge"

We combine 1 part truth, to 2 parts deceit (season to taste) finish it with competence and get good results. Obviously there are some people who lie more than they are worth, everybody gets a free pass at warping the truth to the right extent

1. I'm only 21, I'm still in college.

2. With the right mindset it's easy to see through that kind of bullcrap. Yes those kinds of tactics can help you build sales but in the long run people are going to realize they've been duped and that's when they'll run to your more honest competitor. There's no need to rely on dishonesty to be successful.

People can tell when you're being honest and sincere, and they appreciate it. If there was a presidential candidate who was both honest and competent, he would totally blow away Romney and Obama, I guarantee it.

[Major Robert Dump]

Anyone hear the insanely deceitful and flat out wrong (at least thats what Im reading) ad that the Obama campaign put out?

Pity the Romney campaign dropped the ball responding to it. Romney needs to fire his campaign manager ASAP.

Pretty bad commercial. Worse than the Romney ad responding to the "you didn't do it alone" speech by using a "small businessman" who, in fact, turns out not to have done it alone.

There is so much garbage being pushed both directions I am curious what this is going to make the debates look like. Based on what I have seen so far, each candidate could spend all of his time calling the other guy a liar, and in both cases they would be 100% correct.

[Hooahguy]

Pretty bad commercial. Worse than the Romney ad responding to the "you didn't do it alone" speech by using a "small businessman" who, in fact, turns out not to have done it alone.

There is so much garbage being pushed both directions I am curious what this is going to make the debates look like. Based on what I have seen so far, each candidate could spend all of his time calling the other guy a liar, and in both cases they would be 100% correct.

Im seriously considering putting down Darkseid as my presidential candidate.

[ICantSpellDawg]

Daaaaawg, we've had this argument before. I think all of your examples are bad, and that we should tear down both parties and start again from a place of honesty and conviction. You've scoffed at this viewpoint as unrealistic and idealist.

To be honest, i'm not sure which things Romney has lied about. I hear that he is a "liar" from his opponents, but it is more the label that they use. The abortion issue is one of the few blatant flip/flop type issues that he's guilty of which has been equalized by Obama's stances on Same-sex marriage, in my opinion. I haven't heard other "lies", just over the top hype that all Presidents, salesmen, executives, leaders use. Vacillating on issues and "light on message" accusations can often ring true, but lying? I don't get it. The guy is pretty straight forward about most things, it's the social issues he tends to be a vague on.

Romney was found to be the least(or one of the least) dishonest in ads during the Republican primary campaign. I'm trying to find the source of that assertion. Anyway, please tell me what he is saying that is a lie, especially RVG.

GC, I like quite a bit of our system and don't really believe in tearing all but the most rotten systems down completely. I've explained before that media, an citizens, hold politicians in contempt when they tell the truth. Truth needs to be disseminated, but a spoon full of sugar helps the medicine go down. You wouldn't tell from these message boards, but I'm an effective negotiator over the phone and in person, one on one. I tell people very difficult things without havign them yell at me or threaten me, and they get off of the phone with some element of peace. I've told them the same thing as my co-worker who was barking at the claimant, but the sweetness and eagerness to assist made the same "go directly to hell" message sound like "sure it's warm, but people pay lots of money to travel to places this warm, and think of all the free entertainment". One is not a lie, it's a spin of some element of truth to make things go down easier for them (or just you sometimes).

[Major Robert Dump]

Interesting that "over the top hype" is not considered a lie any more. It is also not a lie to omit information that contradicts your agenda, nor is it a lie to repeat a lie told to you by someone else if you did not know it was a lie, nor is it a lie if done by your PAC and not yourself. We are completely removed from all forms of accountability at the state and national level.

Personally, I think Romney is going to win assuming he doesn't pick some white bread male for VP.

I could really care less either way.

[Montmorency]

The intent to deceive and the intent to conceal are one and the same. Think about it.

[a completely inoffensive name]

Interesting that "over the top hype" is not considered a lie any more. It is also not a lie to omit information that contradicts your agenda, nor is it a lie to repeat a lie told to you by someone else if you did not know it was a lie, nor is it a lie if done by your PAC and not yourself. We are completely removed from all forms of accountability at the state and national level.

Personally, I think Romney is going to win assuming he doesn't pick some white bread male for VP.

I could really care less either way.

The statistics show that Obama is likely the winner unless the economy starts dipping downward. fivethirtyeight has him at ~70% chance of winning.

[Hooahguy]

I think Obama is going to win because lets face it, Romney is a weak candidate. Nothing spectacular about him plus he is viewed as the stereotypical "rich white guy" in this era of rich white guys being practically crucified, ie OWS. The Obama campaign is great at digging up dirt, while the Romney campaign is terrible at refuting/responding to it.
The only think going for him is that he was a good businessman, from what I can tell. That being said, what ACIN said about Romney only winning if the economy dips right before the election is absolutely true.

[Major Robert Dump]

You guys get LOLs for the "if" the economy dips.

High Wall Street numbers and record corporate profits don't mean squat on the economy if the middle class and below is still bent over taking it.

If Obama is such a shoe-in then why all the left-wing whining about Romney outspending him?

[rvg]

You guys get LOLs for the "if" the economy dips.

It has to go into negative territory. The odds of that happening in the next 3 months are quite low.

High Wall Street numbers and record corporate profits don't mean squat on the economy if the middle class and below is still bent over taking it.

Amen to that.

If Obama is such a shoe-in then why all the left-wing whining about Romney outspending him?

It just goes nicely with the narrative of a silver spooned papa's boy who thinks he can buy the election.

[Lemur]

'Romney Murdered JonBenét Ramsey,' New Obama Campaign Ad Alleges



CHICAGO—With campaign rhetoric becoming increasingly heated and both presidential nominees releasing more attack ads, a new 30-second spot from the Obama campaign this week accuses his opponent Mitt Romney of committing the 1996 murder of 6-year-old beauty pageant queen JonBenét Ramsey.

Titled “He Did It,” the advertisement asks if anyone can truly remember where Romney was the night of the child’s murder, and whether the U.S. populace wants a president capable of strangling a little girl and dumping her body in her parents’ basement.

President Obama appears at the end of the advertisement to approve the message.

“I think this is a fair ad, and I think Mitt Romney owes an explanation to the American people as to why he murdered JonBenét Ramsey,” said Obama campaign manager Jim Messina, who called the commercial’s black-and-white reenactment of Mitt Romney carrying a kicking and screaming child to her death “accurate.” “Ultimately, voters need to know who they’re getting with Mitt Romney: a job- and child-killing businessman who is so deceitful he won’t release his tax returns or admit to a senseless murder that shook the nation to its core.” [...]

“Personally, if I killed JonBenét Ramsey, I would have come clean and told the American people that on day one,” Obama’s communication director David Axelrod said on Sunday’s installment of Meet The Press. “But I think that’s a key difference between Barack Obama and Mitt Romney. Barack Obama never murdered a child, and Mitt Romney did.”

According to sources at Obama’s Chicago headquarters, the “He Did It” commercial is just the first in a new series of attack ads that accuses Romney of drowning actress Natalie Wood in 1981, convincing cult leader David Koresh to burn down the Branch Davidian ranch in Waco, TX, and causing the Challenger disaster.

“I think these ads will end up being very effective,” former Bill Clinton campaign strategist Dick Morris said. “If you are an undecided voter and you are constantly seeing images of Mitt Romney standing over a child’s lifeless body, or, as in the case of the ‘Zodiac’ spot, shooting two high schoolers at point blank range on their first date, that’s a pretty persuasive image right there.”

Added Morris, “This ad very effectively reminds us that no child murderer has ever been elected into the White House.”

Though the Obama campaign has denied it, many Beltway observers have said the advertisements are retaliation for the Romney camp’s highly controversial ad, “Boom,” which accuses the president of being the fertilizer bomb that destroyed an Oklahoma City federal building in 1995.

[Centurion1]

'Romney Murdered JonBenét Ramsey,' New Obama Campaign Ad Alleges



CHICAGO—With campaign rhetoric becoming increasingly heated and both presidential nominees releasing more attack ads, a new 30-second spot from the Obama campaign this week accuses his opponent Mitt Romney of committing the 1996 murder of 6-year-old beauty pageant queen JonBenét Ramsey.

Titled “He Did It,” the advertisement asks if anyone can truly remember where Romney was the night of the child’s murder, and whether the U.S. populace wants a president capable of strangling a little girl and dumping her body in her parents’ basement.

President Obama appears at the end of the advertisement to approve the message.

“I think this is a fair ad, and I think Mitt Romney owes an explanation to the American people as to why he murdered JonBenét Ramsey,” said Obama campaign manager Jim Messina, who called the commercial’s black-and-white reenactment of Mitt Romney carrying a kicking and screaming child to her death “accurate.” “Ultimately, voters need to know who they’re getting with Mitt Romney: a job- and child-killing businessman who is so deceitful he won’t release his tax returns or admit to a senseless murder that shook the nation to its core.” [...]

“Personally, if I killed JonBenét Ramsey, I would have come clean and told the American people that on day one,” Obama’s communication director David Axelrod said on Sunday’s installment of Meet The Press. “But I think that’s a key difference between Barack Obama and Mitt Romney. Barack Obama never murdered a child, and Mitt Romney did.”

According to sources at Obama’s Chicago headquarters, the “He Did It” commercial is just the first in a new series of attack ads that accuses Romney of drowning actress Natalie Wood in 1981, convincing cult leader David Koresh to burn down the Branch Davidian ranch in Waco, TX, and causing the Challenger disaster.

“I think these ads will end up being very effective,” former Bill Clinton campaign strategist Dick Morris said. “If you are an undecided voter and you are constantly seeing images of Mitt Romney standing over a child’s lifeless body, or, as in the case of the ‘Zodiac’ spot, shooting two high schoolers at point blank range on their first date, that’s a pretty persuasive image right there.”

Added Morris, “This ad very effectively reminds us that no child murderer has ever been elected into the White House.”

Though the Obama campaign has denied it, many Beltway observers have said the advertisements are retaliation for the Romney camp’s highly controversial ad, “Boom,” which accuses the president of being the fertilizer bomb that destroyed an Oklahoma City federal building in 1995.

Thats disgusting and very very low. I'm probably going to do a write up on my opinion of politics after having served on a campaign staff this summer. Needless to say I'm not a fan.

[Lemur]

Thats disgusting and very very low. I'm probably going to do a write up on my opinion of politics after having served on a campaign staff this summer. Needless to say I'm not a fan.

But it's from American's Finest News Source™!

[Major Robert Dump]

It just goes nicely with the narrative of a silver spooned papa's boy who thinks he can buy the election.

Whats comical about this is the sheer volume with which Wall Street donates to the Obama campaign (more than Romneys), and in return he gives them an occasional admonishment about something they did so it looks like he is being hard on them, while virtually no enforcement or head rolling commences.

It's like being mean to your girlfriend in public to impress your friends

[Major Robert Dump]

Oh Centurion.....

There's always gotta be one

[rvg]

Whats comical about this is the sheer volume with which Wall Street donates to the Obama campaign (more than Romneys), and in return he gives them an occasional admonishment about something they did so it looks like he is being hard on them, while virtually no enforcement or head rolling commences.

It's like being mean to your girlfriend in public to impress your friends

Very true. Obama is a friend of the Wall Street. Romney is Wall Street. A subtle but important difference.

[Centurion1]

But it's from American's Finest News Source™!

Ahhhh didn't check the link just read the actual article attached. Touche Sir Touche

Whats comical about this is the sheer volume with which Wall Street donates to the Obama campaign (more than Romneys), and in return he gives them an occasional admonishment about something they did so it looks like he is being hard on them, while virtually no enforcement or head rolling commences.

It's like being mean to your girlfriend in public to impress your friends

They donate too both sides oftentimes in equal measure.

[Lemur]

Ladies and gentlemen, I give you the worst political video of this election. So far. I can only hope for more at this level of sheer awfulness.

(Note that I measure all bad political videos against the masterpiece Hillary 4 U and Me, which stands as the high-water mark for this lemur. Yes, I think it's even better/worse than It's Raining McCain.)

[Fisherking]

This makes me so happy, that I am out of the country and don’ have to see this pile of steaming every day!

It seems the American People never have any choice except bad and worse, and some how they always select worse.

I predict that no matter who is elected the state of American Government will only go to a still lower level.

[Hooahguy]

Elections nowadays seems to be more ad hominem attacks than anything else.

Cant wait for the debates.

[Centurion1]

Elections nowadays seems to be more ad hominem attacks than anything else.

Cant wait for the debates.

It hasn't changed at all in 230 years it has always been this way. I get so sick of this sort of false nostalgia like these politicians were any different 100 years ago. They were even worse there if anything.

[Major Robert Dump]

It hasn't changed at all in 230 years it has always been this way. I get so sick of this sort of false nostalgia like these politicians were any different 100 years ago. They were even worse there if anything.

I disagree.

I think that as media has allowed us to expose their lies, what is and is not acceptable/forgivable is far different than what was and was not a hundred years ago.

Yes, they all lie. The difference is that back then it was harder to prove them as being crooks; now, we know they are all crooks, we do not care as long as it is our crook, and the politicians know that this is how we view them so they behave like crooks. This mentality trickles down to the very people the government is supposed to regulate, and they behave like crooks, too, knowing that they will get a slap on the wrist and a bailout. Malice does not have to be present in order for it to be wrong.

[Hooahguy]

Also 230 years ago we could watch politicians duel if one thought their honor was being questioned.

[Lemur]

Elections nowadays seems to be more ad hominem attacks than anything else.

ROMNEY OFFERS TRUCE IN WHICH CRITICISM OF MITT ROMNEY WOULD BE BANNED

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha, ha ha ha, ha… ha… ah ha: “Romney also said in the interview he would like a pledge (of sorts) with Obama that there be no ‘personal’ attack ads. ‘[O]ur campaign would be — helped immensely if we had an agreement between both campaigns that we were only going to talk about issues and that attacks based upon — business or family or taxes or things of that nature.’” Okay… okay… let’s consider this… HAHAHAH, hahahahah, ha ha ha ha ha, sorry, we can’t do it, ha ha ha… what a world. Even the good little brown-noser people at Politico have written, “What is surprising is hearing a candidate say, essentially, ‘stop hitting me.’” [...]

He’s trying to run his primary campaign of bombing the opposition with SuperPAC ads exclusively, instead of getting one single speck of dirt on his hands. And even his “issues-based” criticisms of Obama are highly personal in a cowardly back-door way. “This President’s economic policies show that he knows nothing about, wasn’t really raised in, and absolutely hates America,” and so on.

WILL OBAMA TAKE THE DEAL?

We’re only one or two days away from a “I’m suspending my campaign to go back to Washington and get in everyone’s ******* way” freakout. Ha ha ha ha.

[ICantSpellDawg]

You guys are all hyped up on this "lying" business. Most of what is happening is tasteless hyping up of one guy or over the top attacks on personal character of the other. These arn't lies. I have no idea what any of you are talking about. I haven't heard many lies in this campaign from either side. I think that all of you might be stupid or something. They are criticizing one another for little unrelated things and hypotheticals and using odd word play to associate one another with criminal malfeasance. What else are they supposed to do? One guy is the President, the other guy isn't. Neither of them are actual criminals, they just have different ideas for the direction of the country and want to be President for the next 4 years. They are trying to sell themselves and use terminology to associate the other guy with bad voter feelings. That's all this is. Grow up. Realize that people run for president every 4 years and try to get elected at the other guy's expense. Honestly, it's like you're all retarded or something. Lemur has the right idea, he's laughing about this stuff.

It's not crooked to try to avoid paying taxes legally. It's also not crooked to try to nationalize the health care system. Just because we don't like a specific candidate or their, lets not automatically convince ourselves that they are criminals or liars. If you find them guilty of a crime or ethics violation then we can talk about it.

[Major Robert Dump]

You guys are all hyped up on this "lying" business. Most of what is happening is tasteless hyping up of one guy or over the top attacks on personal character of the other. These arn't lies. I have no idea what any of you are talking about. I haven't heard many lies in this campaign from either side. I think that all of you might be stupid or something. They are criticizing one another for little unrelated things and hypotheticals and using odd word play to associate one another with criminal malfeasance. What else are they supposed to do? One guy is the President, the other guy isn't. Neither of them are actual criminals, they just have different ideas for the direction of the country and want to be President for the next 4 years. They are trying to sell themselves and use terminology to associate the other guy with bad voter feelings. That's all this is. Grow up. Realize that people run for president every 4 years and try to get elected at the other guy's expense. Honestly, it's like you're all retarded or something. Lemur has the right idea, he's laughing about this stuff.

It's not crooked to try to avoid paying taxes legally. It's also not crooked to try to nationalize the health care system. Just because we don't like a specific candidate or their, lets not automatically convince ourselves that they are criminals or liars. If you find them guilty of a crime or ethics violation then we can talk about it.

You actually stated in an earlier post that Romney would make just enough promises to get elected, then when he gets elected forget them and go about the real business. How is that not a lie, Mr Stupid Retard?

If we want to pontificate about how piss poor the system is, we are going to go at it. Just because "it is how it is" does not make it right, and just because it is legal does not make it right. All of these people are crooks. All of them. They do not hold themselves even to the same standards as people who work in the stock market. Here is a game for you to play: go pull the financials of your favorite guy in the senate or the house. See what they have investments and ownership in. Then come back here and tell me that these people are not engaging in massive conflicts of interest.

And please.... PLEAAAAASE... don't retort with "because someone manages his protfolio for him," which is one of the biggest shams to ever be perpetrated against curious minds who wants to know why Joe Senator has shares in a company his legislation benefits.

I am laughing at this. I am grown up, a lot more than you, Mr Glass House.

[Major Robert Dump]

ROMNEY OFFERS TRUCE IN WHICH CRITICISM OF MITT ROMNEY WOULD BE BANNED

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha, ha ha ha, ha… ha… ah ha: “Romney also said in the interview he would like a pledge (of sorts) with Obama that there be no ‘personal’ attack ads. ‘[O]ur campaign would be — helped immensely if we had an agreement between both campaigns that we were only going to talk about issues and that attacks based upon — business or family or taxes or things of that nature.’” Okay… okay… let’s consider this… HAHAHAH, hahahahah, ha ha ha ha ha, sorry, we can’t do it, ha ha ha… what a world. Even the good little brown-noser people at Politico have written, “What is surprising is hearing a candidate say, essentially, ‘stop hitting me.’” [...]

He’s trying to run his primary campaign of bombing the opposition with SuperPAC ads exclusively, instead of getting one single speck of dirt on his hands. And even his “issues-based” criticisms of Obama are highly personal in a cowardly back-door way. “This President’s economic policies show that he knows nothing about, wasn’t really raised in, and absolutely hates America,” and so on.

WILL OBAMA TAKE THE DEAL?

We’re only one or two days away from a “I’m suspending my campaign to go back to Washington and get in everyone’s ******* way” freakout. Ha ha ha ha.

I don't understand why he doesn't just respond to the ads if they are so untrue? He has more money to burn and the polls are reasonably close.

This makes me think he may be concerned about his VP picks background, or maybe someone is getting close to a filthy little skeleton

[Memnon]

Andrew Jackson once had a dude try to assassinate him with two flintlock pistols--they both misfired, and he chased the would-be assassin down the street with his cane (as he was crippled, you see, from a musket-shot he took to the side during the war of 1812). Or so the story goes.

Nowadays they cower behind the secret service.

Well, to be fair, the chances of two weapons used by an assailant misfiring have dramatically decreased since then. Also, possibly only TR has even come close to the badassness of Jackson, regardless of their policies. I think I remember reading that Jackson had six bullets still in him when he died, and they had all been life-threatening when he got them, 20 or more years before he died.