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It's hard to say when tradition becomes a joke and should be scrapped.

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I think those tendencies are possible to correct. Most of us on this board are able to accept each other's viewpoints and have rational, respectful debate. We're a little more intellectually minded than your average citizen, but I don't think we're special.

Call me naive but I think there are politicians out there that believe what they say and are willing to compromise and make sacrifices. But of course there are also the politicians that are greedy, corrupt and motivated by self interest. I believe that governments will always be a mix of both. So, is it possible to have more "good" politicians than "bad" ones? I think so. Greed, self-interest, narrow mindedness and bigotry may be the products of biology, but then so are altruism, the ability to think critically, etc.

In a democracy, people aren't born politicians, they make the choice to become politicians later on in life. Our elected leaders went to school, watched t.v., maybe even worked minimum wage jobs just like the rest of us. They are a product of our culture. If we want good politicians, then we need to cultivate and encourage the values that make for good politicians. The battle for good governance isn't only to be fought in the political arena, but in society at large.

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Wow, I missed an entire word in my last post. I am not going to even try anymore.

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I wonder how well the convention takes off...

GIT IN MAH BELLAY!!!

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They crushed those speeches.

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Oh, was the convention televised tonight? Or did you stream the coverage from somewhere? I have not been keeping up.

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Did anyone claim a natural event as an act of god this time?

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I enjoyed the Paul supporters having their delegates stripped by last minute rule changes and then being shouted down in the middle of the convention with chants of USA USA USA.

Blind nationalism and party identity no matter how sketchy things look. I prefer the Christian God over the capitalist one (Romney).

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Romney's wife's speech was a beautiful example of this!

The Real Romney: More Impressive Than You’ll Ever Be

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That was hilarious. Thank you.

I love Mitt Romney, I think he is awesome and his wife did an excellent job last night. I hope that he wins and we are within striking distance.

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eh striking distance of what??

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Well, it is a close election. Things can go either way.

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Obama is doing (or maybe was?) an "Ask Me Anything" on Reddit. Over 10,000 replies and its crashing the Reddit servers.

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Why?

What policies of his benefit you? What policies benefit America as a whole?

I'm sorry, but business as usual (as represented by the GOP) is not going to help the states this time around.

Additionally, why did you enjoy his wife's speech? It was such a vapid attempt at pandering to women and the "common man", so incredibly contrived. Romney is not "in touch" with the the average American, and his policies will not help them. Romney said it best himself:




He's so against the poor he and his party had the Tampa police clear them all out of the city before they had their big bucks convention.

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Republicans were honest enough to admit that Obama's speeches were excellent. I've watched every one of these speeches from 6PM to 11 for the past 2 days. I've seen some excellent stuff (including a few duds). I know Romney's record. I like his results and his moderate governing philosophy. I like that he was capable of governing a Democratic state and governing it well, passing middle of the road and successful, lasting policies. I believe that it is time for an administration that is realistic and pragmatic and knows how to accomplish tough things with restraint. I also know that this government is hostile in a new way to individual liberty, business creation and reasonable consensus. I'm not going to say that Obama is the worst President because I don't believe that can be judged reasonably right now, but I don't believe that anyone can honestly say that he has his priorities in order or has been effective. He is governing like a popular junior Senator. Nothing that he proposes will help me or any of my issues along - to answer your question he does nothing for me. I want a Republican administration which will focus government on core responsibilities. I believe that this one will be different because of the individuals that will run it. I could be wrong. I thought Barack Obama could bring Americans together with his lofty and excellent speeches but I was wrong on that. I didn't vote for him, but I wasn't thrilled by any means by McCain

Most political speeches are attempts to court certain voters and check the right boxes. I'm not sure you get off criticising a speech as "pandering", i'm not sure why you would give one if you weren't trying to tell a story and influence people. Anne Romney is a mother and wife of the nominee, not a politician. I didn't expect much from her having heard her speak before. I was impressed and I know that it was effective.

Is it "the economy. stupid" or not? People will vote for Obama because of image, not results. I don't know anyone who is better off today than they were 4 years ago. That is a good place to be for the G.O.P. going into a November election.

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I saw some great speeches. I read some random article about Chris Christie's speech being "panned". That is nonsense, it was a great and effective speech. I also saw some crappy ones which leave me questioning the future of some of them. (Ayote, Paul,)

I thought Rice, Martinez and Ryan had great ones last night. I really didn't know anything about Martinez, but she speaks with the confidence of a trial attorney and has alot of appeal. She's a contender for 2016.

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What I find interesting is that everyone who knows Romney personally finds him incredibly kind and likeable. But this somehow gets lost in translation. (Showing my age here, but) he kinda reminds me of Walter Mondale in this respect. Folks who met Mondale in person were always struck by how handsome and charismatic he was, but it did not transmit over a camera. Similar dynamic seems to be at work with Romney; people who actually know him find him warm and charismatic, but it does not translate on camera.

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As if Obama's policies are doing any good...

While I hate Romney's social conservative side, I have faith that he will substantially help the economy, which, IMO, is much more important than most social issues.

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Could you elaborate on that? How do you think Romney will help the economy?

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Hes a fiscal conservative. I like that. Less regulation means more company growth. Which in turn creates jobs. Taxing the rich even more doesnt do anything because they can still afford to take advantage of loopholes. Plus what kind of message does that send? That success is punished? We should not be vilifying the rich just for being rich. Taxing them will not solve the debt problem as Obama seems to think. To solve the debt problem we need to take in more than we spend. The fact that Obama increased the debt by trillions in one term, and yet still thinks that the solution to the debt problem is more taxation is foolish and incredibly naive. I have to wonder who is giving economic advice to him.

So lets say Obama wins, and increases the tax rates on the rich even more. What happens when their money dries up? Im fairly certain that the rich people in this country do not have $16 trillion to solve the debt problem.

And about Romney's comment about the poor- so what? There are charities and other programs in place that assist them. Welfare is a massive sinkhole for federal spending. Ive seen many people who are on welfare using iPods and other fancy electronics. For a while I volunteered regularly at a soup kitchen. I would often see people who we served on smartphones after they took their food. If they were really that poor, why do they have those things? Granted, poverty is still an issue and Im not saying that we should ignore the poor, but it cannot be a concern of the Feds.

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Certainly. But on the other hand, reducing taxes on the rich won't help the economy either and will only eat into the already low revenue stream. As for what message it sends, that might be important from a symbolic perspective but irrelevant from the practical one.

Absolutely. The question is, how is Romney gonna go about doing that.

He has no money and an uncooperative House. What do you expect him to do, default?


Taxation today is at its lowest level in the past ...umm... 30 years or so.

Their money won't dry up.

Raising taxes on the rich won't help much, I agree there. Romney wants to *lower* their taxes. How's that supposed to help?

Here's the thing...the poor like to spend, which in many cases accounts for their poverty. Poor will spend close to 100% of what they make. The rich won't. That means that pumping money into the poor == boosting the economy, as almost 100% of that money will be spent. And that's what our economy needs right now: spending. Giving a tax break to the rich will just mean that they have more money to play with on the stock market. How does it help the economy? It doesn't. The poor and their spending drives this economy far more than the rich and their spending. By further crippling the poor, we'll be crippling ourselves. Is it fair to give money to the poor? Hell no. The question is: do you want the economy to recover? If you do, then spending on the poor is a good strategy.

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Cut spending. Its the best way. Cut out unnecessary programs, and consolidate ones that overlap.

He had control of both for the first two years. Even then he didnt do anything. People voted out the Democratic house because of this. Not saying that the Repubs did any better, but its fair to point out that even when he had both there was nothing.

Even so, he didnt have to spend like crazy, $6+ trillion in four years! I mean come on, at this rate the national debt will be way over $20 trillion in 2016.

Ok, but that doesnt change the fact that Obama still drones on about how the solution to the debt problem is high taxes for the rich.

Is that guarantee? I think that when push comes to shove, they will just move their capital somewhere else.

See below.

Lol wut?

Because they are spending 100% of their money, which isnt a lot, they will stay forever poor. Do you even realize what you are saying? If that was really true, why isnt the nation better off? Because the poor are a small percentage of the population. There simply are not enough of them that if they all did what you are saying, to make a difference. If the majority of the country was poor, then maybe it would make a difference. But thankfully, most of Americans are not poor, so your idea has no solid ground to stand upon. A couple million people spending their paychecks, either through a job or through welfare, wont boost the economy.

However, the rich do not just "play with the stock market." They invest. Invest in the stock market, which has a major effect on the economy, they invest in companies, in new businesses. I wouldnt turn to a poor person to help me fund my new small business proposal. Like it or not, the rich drive the economy.

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How often does this lie need to be debunked? The correct figure for a super-majority (which is what you need to override a filibuster) was seven weeks.

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That's very broad. Can you be more specific?

Yes, Obamacare is a shame. I'll just point out that Romney was thinking along the same lines in MA.

Can you be specific about the "like crazy" part?

Fair enough. So, neither candidate is offering anything tangible.

You might notice a trend: European elite tends to move their money and residency to the U.S. to avoid taxes. Not the other way around. Capital gains is 15%, that's pretty low considering that most people who work for a living are paying twice as much in taxes.

So? Let them stay poor. Their choice. We're talking about boosting the economy.

Hmm...15% of the 300,000,000. That's 45 million people. I wouldn't call that "small"

45 million. 45.

Can you be more specific about how that would have a major effect?


And their tax rate is 15%. Lower than anyone else except the poorest of the poor.

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Not that anyone cares, but apparently Paul Ryan's speech last night set some sort of land-speed record for easily disproved falsehoods. But I'm not sure anyone gives a damn, given how entrenched positions are. As Romney's pollster said, "We aren't going to let our campaign be dictated by fact-checkers."

Eerie flashbacks to Bush 43 and his administration's dismissal of the "reality-based community."

“[Obama] created a bipartisan debt commission. They came back with an urgent report,” Ryan stated. “He thanked them, sent them on their way, and then did exactly nothing.” But the bipartisan debt commission itself didn’t come back with a report. There were not enough votes to agree upon recommendations, in part due to opposition from committee member, er, Paul Ryan. The statement misleads viewers by implying that Ryan supports the proposal, when he aggressively opposed it, and by using the third person to avoid noting that Ryan was on the commission and voted no.

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I think it is cute, hooahguy has bought into the sound bytes without looking into the real numbers.

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Best takedown of the Ryan speech I've read (at lunch):

Incredibly, the larger theme of Ryan’s speech was to assail Obama for failing to take full responsibilities for this state of affairs — Obama is “shifting blame,” “blaming others.” It is the single largest motif of Ryan’s speech. Let’s review: Ryan helps to create a massive structural deficit, repeatedly and almost single-handedly prevents a solution, then runs for vice-president, blaming Obama for the structural deficit and further blaming him for his unwillingness to agree that this is all his own fault. The really amazing thing is that it could possibly work.

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Good article.

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Ah ye cannot beat a bit of double think can ye, I see he claims a plant that closed under Bush is Obama's fault.

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How specific? Like naming specific programs?

For the record, if it wasnt for the fact that Obamacare would force people to get health insurance, Id be behind it. Its only for that reason I dont like it.

Seriously? Is $6+ trillion in 4 years not enough?

# Says you.

Exactly. So why stop a good thing?

But would it actually do anything? My bet is on no.

But how much of that would get back to the government? I remind you that not every poor person has the same spending habits. Lets say someone gets a check for $1,000. How much of that do you honestly think would get back to the government? Id say, not that much.

And 15% is pretty small.

Seriously?
When the stock market is doing well it usually translates to an overall good economy.

Can you be more specific?

Feel free to refute me rather than make snide comments.

And @Lemur: Im sorry, you are right. I keep forgetting that fact. I stand corrected.

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