New(?) Cavalry tactic/exploit

[lolpah]

First off, I am not sure on whether this is new or not, but I couldn't find any reference to this from Frogbeastegg's unit guide, nor from any other guides.
Secondly, this tactic might be considered as a borderline exploit, like the two-rank swordsmen tactic but even more so.

So, I have noticed that when you put a high-charge(relatively) cavalry unit (e.g. mounted sergeants, feudal knights or Armenian heavy cav) in a single line and hold formation, then charge it at enemy unit (the formation has to be relatively intact) but at last second switch to Engage at will, it will cause the enemy unit to take heavy casualties and insta-rout. The timing of the switch is important - too late or too early will not yield such dratic results, though it still may work on some weak units. The rout is really instant - sometimes the unit routs so fast that after the battle ended and the win-screen pops up, when you hower your cursor over the enemy unit, it does not show any losses although the unit took considerable losses.

This does not work on spearmen or pikes, nor foot knights (though they will take casualties), and does not work well on polearms (the timing has to be perfect and probably multiple charges needed).

I theorise that the insta-rout is due to combined morale shocks from casualties, cavalry charge and being outflanked due to the single line formation wrapping around them.

[Gilrandir]

As far as I can assume this manouver works only against swordsmen. But their ability to withstand cavalry is precarious enough without the neccessity to invent some elaborate charge tactics and watch out for the timing of formation changing.

[gollum]

There was a bug in versions earlier than 2.01 if memory serves (not sure though) called informally swipe. Basically cavalry got an infinite charge bonus while on the run. It was a big exploit in the mp game so eventually it was taken out after players requested it.

There was also another bug prior to 1.1 or 2.01 (still not sure) which caused wrapped around units to respond as flanked, so the 2 ranks formation worked well. This was true for all unit types.

If you play an older version than 2.01, none of this sounds surprising.

[lolpah]

As far as I can assume this manouver works only against swordsmen. But their ability to withstand cavalry is precarious enough without the neccessity to invent some elaborate charge tactics and watch out for the timing of formation changing.

True, but you can also do this with light cavalry, e.g. Armoured Sergeants, which would not normally rout swordsmen in one charge, and thus taking far less losses(even other types of cavalry take less losses - I routed two units of Feudal Men-at-arms with one Armenian Heavy Cavalry without any losses) and requiring far less micromanagement than the otherwise ensuing charge/repeat. Also, this also works somewhat on polearms.

There was a bug in versions earlier than 2.01 if memory serves (not sure though) called informally swipe. Basically cavalry got an infinite charge bonus while on the run. It was a big exploit in the mp game so eventually it was taken out after players requested it.
There was also another bug prior to 1.1 or 2.01 (still not sure) which caused wrapped around units to respond as flanked, so the 2 ranks formation worked well. This was true for all unit types.

If you play an older version than 2.01, none of this sounds surprising.

Nope, I'm playing Gold edition (From Total War: Eras), and on the menu screen it clearly states that my version is 2.01. I thought that the two ranks bug works still - are my swordsmen just THAT good against spears even without it?

I also tested charging without this tactic, and the results were not nearly as good, so it isn't that.

[gollum]

Swords get a hidden +1 attack against spears, so they are pretty good against them.

[Axalon]

Interesting....

I have done similar stuff but never to this extreme and as systematic/calculated. At what difficulty-level was this tested and done? That still probably is the most important question here. Assuming that you play raw MTW, normal? If so, try hard and then expert and see how that goes... Solo/custom battles will do, I think.

If it does work there as well, you might very well have found a new viable tactic for cavalry - given the specific prerequisites materialize during a battle of course (available suitable target - factor X, free unit to do it - factor Y, and clear and wide enough way to target - factor Z). If it works on the higher levels it might even work out on lower levels of major mods as well, you never know.

As for the danger of this being a supposed "exploit".... Don't worry about it - it is not. You can quote me on that any day. And most people who indulge themselves in such considerations usually can not tell the differences between plain bad design and actual exploits anyway - that is my experience anyhow. The few actual exploits in MTW are with few exceptions so nominal in actual impact on the overall game that they can basically ignored anyhow. Besides, this is a legitimate tactic - if somewhat limited in applicability considering the available targets in raw MTW - as you outlined...

Do some more tests on higher levels and post up your results.

...

As far as I can assume this manouver works only against swordsmen. But their ability to withstand cavalry is precarious enough without the neccessity to invent some elaborate charge tactics and watch out for the timing of formation changing.

This is what I call a non-argument.... Even if it might be true somehow, it does not actually disproof the other side or someway provide strength to its own position - which it is was supposed to serve. It is like saying "we don't need to cook a good meal, because it is not necessary. A plain meal is sufficient to do the job." Just because it is not necessary does not exclude the possibility to do it anyway, right? Or that we may still prefer to have a good meal anyways....

- A

[caravel]

So, I have noticed that when you put a high-charge(relatively) cavalry unit (e.g. mounted sergeants, feudal knights or Armenian heavy cav) in a single line and hold formation, then charge it at enemy unit (the formation has to be relatively intact) but at last second switch to Engage at will, it will cause the enemy unit to take heavy casualties and insta-rout. The timing of the switch is important - too late or too early will not yield such dratic results, though it still may work on some weak units.

Yes it works, as a line, not necessarily a single line though - just a wide frontage, it was always a favoured tactic of mine. It has got nothing to do with the swipe bug however is still effective in 2.01 and offsets the "swarm of bees" effect you get when charging units in engage at will mode (the whole mob rush the standard bearer).