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  1. #1
    Grand Patron's Banner Bearer Senior Member Peasant Phill's Avatar
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    Default No way to expand

    I'm playing a Saga campaign and I'm trying to be a good imperial clan. I've conquered 2 shogunate clans in my vicinity and other imperial clans took out the others. I have to go several turns east by navy just to get to the first shogunate clan, something that will be pratically suicide for my army.

    Have any of you experienced the same thing? What did you do?
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  2. #2
    Enlightened Despot Member Vladimir's Avatar
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    Default Re: No way to expand

    Quote Originally Posted by Peasant Phill View Post
    I'm playing a Saga campaign and I'm trying to be a good imperial clan. I've conquered 2 shogunate clans in my vicinity and other imperial clans took out the others. I have to go several turns east by navy just to get to the first shogunate clan, something that will be pratically suicide for my army.

    Have any of you experienced the same thing? What did you do?
    Stab them in the back, quietly. I had a vassal I didn't want turning on me after Realm Divide so I caused a rebellion while they had their army in a fleet. They were on the way to attack a mutual enemy but I didn't need them hanging around. In my first game my allies are so incompetent that I didn't have to engage them directly.


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  3. #3
    The Anger Shaman of the .Org Content Manager Voigtkampf's Avatar
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    Default Re: No way to expand

    What the man said. If you don't, they will stab you in the back, eventually. All is fair in love and war.




    Today is your victory over yourself of yesterday; tomorrow is your victory over lesser men.

    Miyamoto Musashi, The Book of Five Rings, The Water Book

  4. #4

    Default Re: No way to expand

    I have played three Long Campaigns on Normal - two for the Emperor and one for the Shogunate. In all my campaigns so far I have seen clans change side up to the point where your fame is significant enough where you are given a choice to continue fighting for Emperor/Shogunate or go it alone. I cannot remember any clan changing sides after that point. So it depends. While I usually prefer a solid frontline(s), if you are approaching this mentioned milestone I would be surprised if this clan changes sides. If you do attack him, of course you need to make sure all his Alliances are broken before the attack. Another option is to cause a Revolt, though you will suffer a small penalty on your relations with him (but he won't be around for long anyway).

    TS!

  5. #5

    Default Re: No way to expand

    As Saga, I don't think you have much of a choice. You need to get those three very fertile provinces as early as you can. Either backstab them or declare war the moment your alliance's 20 turn extra penalty is over.

  6. #6
    Senior Member Senior Member Forward Observer's Avatar
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    Default Re: No way to expand

    Remember that whether a clan is Shogunate or Empire, all are nothing more than petty warlords who are basically looking out for #1. If it either bothers you to turn on an ally, or if it is the fact that said ally may presently be too strong to attack and/or also allied with others even stronger, then simply incite a revolt in their province closest to you. Chances are the rebels will take it, and then you can move in without declaring war. You can eliminate whole clans this way without ever being at war with them.

    The downside is that sometimes the rebel army that spawns will be large, they will hole up in the castle, and after defeating them you will find everything quite damaged--which will present you with a substantial repair bill. However, it's still usually cheaper than attempting to build up an extra stack of troops and ships to chance a invasion of a distant enemy province--especially early in the game when your economy is just getting off the ground.

    Cheers

    P.S. If any of the damaged city structures don't fit your needs, don't hesitate to torch them instead of repairing. Then you can build to suit your particular gameplan on the next turn.
    Last edited by Forward Observer; 04-13-2012 at 22:38. Reason: repeated word
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  7. #7
    Sardonic Antipodean Member Trithemius's Avatar
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    Default Re: No way to expand

    Sadly, if you want to bash your friendly neighbours you are pretty much required to be a sneaky jerk! ;)

    In my game the Tanegashima got on a boat and went off to capture Kazusa - which made them the most effective of all of my allies really; you could always take a leaf from their book and "emigrate"?
    Trithemius
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    Infinite Jest Member easytarget's Avatar
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    Default Re: No way to expand

    I've found what I've been doing in FOTS a lot more of is getting on a boat. Since the AI is more navy focused, I have been as well. As a result, I've got a pretty robust navy cruising around, and at the point where I inevitably get bottled in fairly early on by allies, I just continue building my economy, steadily crank out a couple stacks, put'em on a boat, and conduct a rear guard invasion of the opposing side. And I make a point of invading whoever is the strongest, or I suspect going to become the strongest clan among the opposition. Works like a charm.

  9. #9
    The Anger Shaman of the .Org Content Manager Voigtkampf's Avatar
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    Default Re: No way to expand

    Oddly enough, I dropped my focus from the navy entirely. Playing as Choshu, I focused on fortifying my assets, expand only slowly, one province at the time, and build up just enough forces to hold the province from invaders. I usually beat them to a bloody pulp when they assault my castle. Navy upkeep costs a lot of money, so I focused on ishin shishi and inciting rebellions in provinces behind enemy lines. Once my immediate neighbors find themselves with only a couple of provinces under their command, they lose the will to sail around my borders pretty fast.
    When playing on harder difficulties, I found that the navy upkeep is better spent on the improvement of my infrastructure, and whereas I did in fact got bombarded few times, it was well worth the cost. Not to mention that once you've expanded you can go and build massive fleets within a blink of an eye and stomp everyone into the ground...Erm, water... Hmpf...




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  10. #10
    Sardonic Antipodean Member Trithemius's Avatar
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    Default Re: No way to expand

    Quote Originally Posted by Voigtkampf View Post
    Oddly enough, I dropped my focus from the navy entirely. Playing as Choshu, I focused on fortifying my assets, expand only slowly, one province at the time, and build up just enough forces to hold the province from invaders. I usually beat them to a bloody pulp when they assault my castle. Navy upkeep costs a lot of money, so I focused on ishin shishi and inciting rebellions in provinces behind enemy lines. Once my immediate neighbors find themselves with only a couple of provinces under their command, they lose the will to sail around my borders pretty fast.
    When playing on harder difficulties, I found that the navy upkeep is better spent on the improvement of my infrastructure, and whereas I did in fact got bombarded few times, it was well worth the cost. Not to mention that once you've expanded you can go and build massive fleets within a blink of an eye and stomp everyone into the ground...Erm, water... Hmpf...
    I neglected navy for a while (was going for British trading port so didn't make a lot of other naval centres) and I suffered a lot! I ended up with a lot of exposed coast and repair bills from enemy bombardment. It got particularly hairy at one point with many of my farms and towns being set afire by the angry guns of my (many) enemies - trust me to ignore navy while my enemies focus on it! They even pulled the rear-guard naval invasion trick once or twice themselves, the dastards!
    Trithemius
    "Power performs the Miracle." - Johannes Trithemius

  11. #11
    The Anger Shaman of the .Org Content Manager Voigtkampf's Avatar
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    Default Re: No way to expand

    Quote Originally Posted by Trithemius View Post
    It got particularly hairy at one point with many of my farms and towns being set afire by the angry guns of my (many) enemies - trust me to ignore navy while my enemies focus on it!
    I think you did just right, and old Sun Tzu would have agreed. You don't attack your enemy where he is the strongest, but where he is the weakest. Take land troops, destroy their provinces and infrastructure, incite rebellions, bribe, sabotage, kill and maim. Lets see how many ships they can keep running from the income they pull out of smoldering ruins, harr harr!

    They even pulled the rear-guard naval invasion trick once or twice themselves, the dastards!
    And I like this, the AI is much better in this segment than all the other TW titles before.




    Today is your victory over yourself of yesterday; tomorrow is your victory over lesser men.

    Miyamoto Musashi, The Book of Five Rings, The Water Book

  12. #12

    Default Re: No way to expand

    Playing as Choshu I built up my navy a little just to keep the coastline clear. I attacked a Nagaoka fleet that was blockading a trade partner and suddenly I was at war with Obama, Sendai and Nagaoka. oops.
    They sent a steady stream of ships to harass me. Fortunately they sent ships one at a time and I was able to send out fleets of 3 or so ships to defeat them. Eventually I got wise and put a general on board. He leveled up very, very quickly.

    To the OP: you should totally consider attacking fellow Imperials. In my current game Satsuma rampaged through Kyushu attacking everyone. Now they've declared war on Tosa and I imagine the Choshu (me) are next. I should have crushed them when they were smaller, but I've been a good ally. You should consider uniting Kyushu. fertile land, coal, copper are hard to resist.
    Last edited by phred; 04-16-2012 at 21:40.

  13. #13

    Default Re: No way to expand

    The AI will nicely change their allegiance on the same turn they backstab you. You could call in all your allies, but it's better to hold off, since I find that if you defeat their invasion quickly, they'll accept peace right away and fall back into line without making peace with your allies.

  14. #14
    Member Member Azi Tohak's Avatar
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    Default Re: No way to expand

    Playing as Tosa with a bunch of allies (not just trading partners) around me, I simply hopped on fleets on the north and south coasts and took my fight to those Shogun-boot-lickers in person. It was great. I obtained military access from a little clan in the north and marched an army down from the province just below that hook, and then plopped a powerful army right on Edo's doorstep. No problem! But I was also playing a short campaign.
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  15. #15
    Member Member Yesugey's Avatar
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    Default Re: No way to expand

    Quote Originally Posted by Peasant Phill View Post
    I'm playing a Saga campaign and I'm trying to be a good imperial clan. I've conquered 2 shogunate clans in my vicinity and other imperial clans took out the others. I have to go several turns east by navy just to get to the first shogunate clan, something that will be pratically suicide for my army.

    Have any of you experienced the same thing? What did you do?
    I recently experienced the same thing wish Choshu, and unlike all people above, I strongly recommend to not to back-stab your Imperial allies. Once you conquered enough provinces they will be your allies and help you on your cause so greatly.

    Now my empire looks like a patchwork: It literally consists of 6 isolated parts, plus an island. The gaps are filled with my allies. We march together against Shogunate.

    What you should be doing is be an ally with them, and grant each other military accesses. When your army get exhausted, they will continue marching from your land.

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