I miss Adrian, Louis and Tribesman

[Sarmatian]

To apologize to whom exactly, Lemur? From what I've been able to gather, Louis made a joke concerning Fragony, and ACIN and Andres threw a tantrum.

Frags didn't have a problem with it in the slightest, he doesn't even know about it.

Unless there's been something else I'm not aware, it's a classic case of overreaction, by people who didn't really know what it was all about.

[Strike For The South]

Hmmm. It's not quite as simple as that, Strike. Louis had several opportunities to defuse the situation, and he didn't take them. It was a classic "this could have been sorted out with an apology and a laugh" kinda escalating, cascading event. Actually, thinking about it, Louisgate kinda resembled a classic tragicomedy in that way, lots of people making marginal calls that add up to a big, painful dénouement.

Stripping modship for a harmless joke was and is a travesty. Half of my posts here are nothing more than haggiling of the price and kinkiness of our eventuall sex romp. Yet he calls tulip a word which is thrown around on the elementary school playground and he is hounded out.

Granted this was the straw that broke the camels back. The reason you see members gone and mods stepped down has allot more to do with what went on behind the scences. I'll spare everyone the details becuase its not really my place to gossip. Suffice to say more honorable men can find better avenues to stimulate themselves intellectualy.

The Orgs aura of politeness is really nothing more than a thin skinned groups of cranks and busybodies who think being offended is akin to the loss of all civil discourse

This place was going to hell when Kurki left. Louis was the cherry on top

[Rhyfelwyr]

I do miss the days when Louis, Tribesey and Adrian were regular posters. But I don't have much sympathy for the way they left.

Louis used language that he knew wasn't allowed on the forum, despite being a moderator. Then threw a big strop making ridiculous arguments about how the same word could mean cigarette or a food product when it was obvious what he meant by it (even if it's use wasn't malicious).

Tribesey also threw a strop because he got so upset that Warman was poking fun at him.

Adrian on the other hand bowed out gracefully, but he's done that a few times so maybe he'll be back.

[Sarmatian]

I do miss the days when Louis, Tribesey and Adrian were regular posters. But I don't have much sympathy for the way they left.

Louis used language that he knew wasn't allowed on the forum, despite being a moderator. Then threw a big strop making ridiculous arguments about how the same word could mean cigarette or a food product when it was obvious what he meant by it (even if it's use wasn't malicious).

No, he argued about context. The same word can have different meaning depending on context.

[Rhyfelwyr]

No, he argued about context. The same word can have different meaning depending on context.

Yeah, and that's why his argument was ridiculous. Was he calling Fragony a "Muslim cigarette"? Or a "Muslim food product"?

The context couldn't have been more clear.

The only real argument he could make was that what he said wasn't malicous, and was intended in good fun. Which I don't doubt everybody accepts. Just doesn't change the fact that swear words aren't allowed on this forum.

[Kagemusha]

"

One of these days the ground

will drop out from beneath

your feet

One of these days your heart
will stop and play its final
beat

One of these days the clocks
will stop and time won't
mean a thing

One of these days their bombs
will drop and silence
everything

But it's all right
Yet it's all right
I said it's all right


Easy for you to say
Your heart has never been broken
Your pride has never been stolen

Not yet not yet."

[Sarmatian]

Yeah, and that's why his argument was ridiculous. Was he calling Fragony a "Muslim cigarette"? Or a "Muslim food product"?

The context couldn't have been more clear.

The only real argument he could make was that what he said wasn't malicous, and was intended in good fun. Which I don't doubt everybody accepts. Just doesn't change the fact that swear words aren't allowed on this forum.

You still don't understand - his point was that meaning/nature of the word depend on context and as an example of it he pointed out that the very word were discussing can have totally different meanings. Likewise, it can have different meaning depending on the intent and the relationship of people in question -> it can be used to insult someone or in a humorous way, and, knowing Louis and his and Fragony's history, it was definitely a joke. That was pretty clear, especially as we're talking about a guy who was nominated for the funniest member of the .org year after year and won it three times.

I called Louis a "frog with a cow fetish". Why wasn't I warned or given infractions if jokes about someone's sexuality are a big no-no? Arguably, that's even worse cause I'm implying that his sexual preference includes quadrupeds.

[Rhyfelwyr]

I understand perfectly well. As I said, Louis did not use the word in any sort of malicious way, since Frags and everyone knew he was kidding on.

However, he said the word in such a context that the only meaning that could have been intended was to refer to a person's sexuality, even if only in jest. The word, used in that context, is a swear word. Whether used maliciously or not, that is against forum rules.

Saying Louis has a cow fetish does not involve swearing. On the other hand if I were to jokingly say to you, "Oh Sarmatian, you're such a [swear word]", I would expect an infraction.

[Sarmatian]

I understand perfectly well. As I said, Louis did not use the word in any sort of malicious way, since Frags and everyone knew he was kidding on.

However, he said the word in such a context that the only meaning that could have been intended was to refer to a person's sexuality, even if only in jest. The word, used in that context, is a swear word. Whether used maliciously or not, that is against forum rules.

Saying Louis has a cow fetish does not involve swearing. On the other hand if I were to jokingly say to you, "Oh Sarmatian, you're such a [swear word]", I would expect an infraction.

So, I'm not allowed to say "Louis, you like to **** animals",
but I'm allowed to say "Louis, you like having intercourse with animals"

Do you understand how silly this is, and totally against the spirit of the forum rules, even if it is within the letter. How many infractions and bans could have been handed out so far if we stuck to the letter of the rules in the backroom? And yet, the backroom remains one of most civil and insightful fora that deals with controversial issues I've ever seen and we've discussed religious matters, gay issues, guns, genocides, massacres, terrorism, racism and many more difficult topics...

[Andres]

Adrian II didn't leave, I think. He sometimes has periods of long absence and this isn't the first time this happens; I'm sure he'll be back one day.

I don't know anything about Tribesman or his whereabouts.

If Louis disagrees with the decision that has been made 6 months ago, he is free to either PM one of the Forum Administrators (Secura, frogbeastegg or me) or to open a thread in the Watchtower. Since the stripping of modship is a disciplinary action, the reasons for it will remain private unless Louis decides to discuss it in public (just like for every other disciplinary action here).

For the record: Louis has never been banned from the forum and his account is still available to him. The choice to use it or not use it for posting at the fora is entirely his.

Moved to the Watchtower.

[Rhyfelwyr]

So, I'm not allowed to say "Louis, you like to **** animals",
but I'm allowed to say "Louis, you like having intercourse with animals"

Do you understand how silly this is, and totally against the spirit of the forum rules, even if it is within the letter. How many infractions and bans could have been handed out so far if we stuck to the letter of the rules in the backroom? And yet, the backroom remains one of most civil and insightful fora that deals with controversial issues I've ever seen and we've discussed religious matters, gay issues, guns, genocides, massacres, terrorism, racism and many more difficult topics...

Well, I think "intercourse" is a bit crude. I would think swearing is banned simply because the words themselves are harsh and unpleasant.

Of course, there's an infinite number of times when Louis and Strike exchanged banter that had obvious sexual overtones. I don't think anybody had a problem with that.

But when you start being more explicit and bringing in either swearing or crude terms, it had a much less pleasant tone IMO.

[Sarmatian]

If Louis disagrees with the decision that has been made 6 months ago, he is free to either PM one of the Forum Administrators (Secura, frogbeastegg or me) or to open a thread in the Watchtower. Since the stripping of modship is a disciplinary action, the reasons for it will remain private unless Louis decides to discuss it in public (just like for every other disciplinary action here).

For the record: Louis has never been banned from the forum and his account is still available to him. The choice to use it or not use it for posting at the fora is entirely his.

Moved to the Watchtower.

Acting all high and mighty and trying to present that it was business as usual when it was anything but, is kinda adding insult to injury. It was clearly a case of overzealous moderating (administrating in this case), with you and ACIN screaming for perceived justice when there was no wronged party and thus no need for the theatrics and melodrama.

Promoting funniest member to a moderator and then stripping him of it when he made a joke is quite bad. When it comes to TW related content, there are a few other fora that trump the Org and this particular forum is alive because there where worthy members who contributed to non-tw related content. Louis was one of those members. There were, and still are thankfully, others but very few in general. Publicly humiliating a guy who contributed for years as much as him on a technicality is...

... you pick a word.

[Andres]

Acting all high and mighty and trying to present that it was business as usual when it was anything but, is kinda adding insult to injury. It was clearly a case of overzealous moderating (administrating in this case), with you and ACIN screaming for perceived justice when there was no wronged party and thus no need for the theatrics and melodrama.

Promoting funniest member to a moderator and then stripping him of it when he made a joke is quite bad. When it comes to TW related content, there are a few other fora that trump the Org and this particular forum is alive because there where worthy members who contributed to non-tw related content. Louis was one of those members. There were, and still are thankfully, others but very few in general. Publicly humiliating a guy who contributed for years as much as him on a technicality is...

... you pick a word.

I did not say it was "business as usual".

You and SFTS assume Louis was stripped of his modship just because of an harmless joke. You are free to assume that, but it has always been our policy not to discuss disciplinary actions in public, unless the member involved wishes to do so here in the WT.

[a completely inoffensive name]

lol Sarmatian must not like me. I haven't had this much indirect trash talking about me since middle school.

[Mouzafphaerre]

​

Adrian II didn't leave, I think. He sometimes has periods of long absence and this isn't the first time this happens; I'm sure he'll be back one day.

Yes he does, and I hope it's another one of them. Otherwise, I'd be one step ahead of Frags to hunt him down once I stepped into Dutchstan.
​

[Strike For The South]

I did not say it was "business as usual".

You and SFTS assume Louis was stripped of his modship just because of an harmless joke. You are free to assume that, but it has always been our policy not to discuss disciplinary actions in public, unless the member involved wishes to do so here in the WT.

I don't assume he was stripped of his modship becuase of a harmless joke, it was the merley the last straw in a long line of percived antagonisms

I don't want to turn this thread into a sewing circle, and if thats the company line, fine. It just isnt the truth

[Ja'chyra]

I don't assume he was stripped of his modship becuase of a harmless joke, it was the merley the last straw in a long line of percived antagonisms

I don't want to turn this thread into a sewing circle, and if thats the company line, fine. It just isnt the truth

I can sew...............



But not very well :(

[Sarmatian]

I don't assume he was stripped of his modship becuase of a harmless joke, it was the merley the last straw in a long line of percived antagonisms

I don't want to turn this thread into a sewing circle, and if thats the company line, fine. It just isnt the truth

Well, maybe for you. It's not fine for me. Since Louis left and isn't coming back, there's no need or way to seek his approval and I'd like to hear the full explanation.

[Andres]

Well, maybe for you. It's not fine for me. Since Louis left and isn't coming back, there's no need or way to seek his approval and I'd like to hear the full explanation.

I know it's not satisfying and I know it sounds "company"-like and all that.

I understand you love Louis and his contributions. Heck, I miss his posts too.

It's just that it has been .Org policy for years not to discuss sanctions in public without the consent of the member involved. I've always seen and understood that rule as a form of courtesy and respect toward the member who broke the rules. Everybody deserves a new chance. Plenty of people have gotten plenty of chances. Louis deserves that too.

If Louis wants to come back with a WT thread to discuss what happened in public, then that's fine and things will be discussed in public; with his approval and the chance for him to give his version and interpretation. However, if Louis wants to let this rest and come back once all the dust has settled, in a more discrete way, with a few witty posts here and there, then that's fine too. If he prefers not to come back at all, then that's less fine, but not much we can do about it.

If I'm now going to discuss with non involved parties, in public, the details of what happened, then that would be very unfair towards him. First because, like everybody else here, he deserves the courtesy and respect not to make private stuff public; secondly, because he wouldn't have a chance to give his version if I made everything public in his absence; thirdly, who says he wants it to be made public?

You want it to be public knowledge, but it's not your call. Nor mine. Louis is the only one who is entitled to decide if this story should be made public or not.

If Louis wants to come back, he's more than welcome. There will be no grudges, no bad feelings, no ill will. It's sad that it had to happen, but it doesn't mean he's no longer welcome here. On the contrary. He'll be welcomed back with open arms and a pat on the back, as far as I'm concerned. Let that be clear.

But if, when and how he comes back, is his decision and his choice. It's not up to us (you nor me) to decide for him if, how or when he comes back.