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Thread: Women In The Military
I sort of think the whole "strength" issue is a red herring. I think it is pretty much an excuse to express patronising masculine views about society and attempting to express falsehoods that all women are pretty flowers and all they are good for is being pretty and looking on from a distance. It is like they take a step back from reality, completely forgetting there are fitness entry requirements in the armed forces.
It is as if people are automatically assuming the typical female soldier looks like this: (Babe Thread picture)
Even though there are females who can bench-press Centurion and Strike for breakfast without breaking a sweat: (Another Babe Thread picture)
Are you really suggesting the woman in the second picture is unable to carry a heavy bag or assist a wounded soldier? She has more muscles on her abs than I have in my entire body. I have met female soldiers and they could easily defeat me in battle situation, out perform me in running, hiking, weigh lifting. These are fully trained, fit and groomed soldiers. They not "daisies" on a meal ticket, these are professionals.
As Rory said:
It is as if people are automatically assuming the typical female soldier looks like this: (Babe Thread picture)
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
Even though there are females who can bench-press Centurion and Strike for breakfast without breaking a sweat: (Another Babe Thread picture)
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
Are you really suggesting the woman in the second picture is unable to carry a heavy bag or assist a wounded soldier? She has more muscles on her abs than I have in my entire body. I have met female soldiers and they could easily defeat me in battle situation, out perform me in running, hiking, weigh lifting. These are fully trained, fit and groomed soldiers. They not "daisies" on a meal ticket, these are professionals.
As Rory said:
Originally Posted by :
If women know the risks and can do the job, then fine.
and I leave that with this image of women soldiers carrying comrades in arms plus their pack-gear:If women know the risks and can do the job, then fine.
Tiaexz who are you talking to?
Originally Posted by Tiaexz:
Are you really suggesting the woman in the second picture is unable to carry a heavy bag or assist a wounded soldier? She has more muscles on her abs than I have in my entire body. I have met female soldiers and they could easily defeat me in battle situation, out perform me in running, hiking, weigh lifting. These are fully trained, fit and groomed soldiers. They not "daisies" on a meal ticket, these are professionals.
Yeah - she'd be useless.Are you really suggesting the woman in the second picture is unable to carry a heavy bag or assist a wounded soldier? She has more muscles on her abs than I have in my entire body. I have met female soldiers and they could easily defeat me in battle situation, out perform me in running, hiking, weigh lifting. These are fully trained, fit and groomed soldiers. They not "daisies" on a meal ticket, these are professionals.
Just like a male body builder.
Nobody's suggesting that women can't be fit, or that they can't be fit and attractive (Jessica Ennis has apparently proved that one). However, it's simply a fact that there won't be as many women up to scratch as men - so line-soldiers will remain predominately male. Every asymmetrical profession has issues with members of the "other" gender. It's bad enough we still have issues with male nurses - those sorts of gender issues are bad enough in a hospital.
On a battlefield?
Originally Posted by Tiaexz:
and I leave that with this image of women soldiers carrying comrades in arms plus their pack-gear:
[img]
Err, that's one woman carrying another woman and another woman carrying the gear, what I want to see is one woman carrying her 7' 300pound male comrade who still has his backpack strapped on and an RPG 7 in his head while they are under fire from gunships and ICBMs.and I leave that with this image of women soldiers carrying comrades in arms plus their pack-gear:
[img]
Because that's what every single male soldier could and would do!
You don’t carry wounded in situations like that. You drag them and your self the heck out of there on your belly.
You know the low crawl, no?
You know the low crawl, no?
Originally Posted by Husar:
I want to see is one woman carrying her 7' 300pound male comrade who still has his backpack strapped on and an RPG 7 in his head while they are under fire from gunships and ICBMs.
Since they don't do that, they usually drag their friend out of the way and behind the nearest cover, and generally cut them loose from any gear where possible. The picture shows them carrying comrades whilst wearing their own gear probably for a good mile or two, so long distance endurance. As GC said, he was only 180lb himself.I want to see is one woman carrying her 7' 300pound male comrade who still has his backpack strapped on and an RPG 7 in his head while they are under fire from gunships and ICBMs.
No, you're both wrong, the first thing you do is explode that RPG-7 safely in their ear so that the eyes don't get damaged by the shaped shrapnell charge behind the 12 cylinder rocket engine. Afterwards you lift the comrade with your right hand while carefully balancing him between your index finger and your thumb. And then you run back to the trenches really fast, it helps if you jump a lot to evade incoming fire. Since women are inherently never able to do that, they should be excluded from the army and I'm not going to give in one inch!!!
Originally Posted by Philippvs Vallindervs Calicvula:
It's bad enough we still have issues with male nurses - those sorts of gender issues are bad enough in a hospital.
Nurses were originally all-male. Times change.It's bad enough we still have issues with male nurses - those sorts of gender issues are bad enough in a hospital.
I played rugby in college
We scrimmaged the girls team once
once
Women get heavy preferential treatment in the military already.
Women who are stronger than "me" are strapped into about 9 different kinds of weightlifting suits and eat steroids for 3 squares a day. Not to take anything away from their accomplishments (which they are) but lets be frank, most women don't have the physical power that you Nancy boys do.
I don't really give two shits, hopefully the military will start being more stringent with recruiting standards now that our little excursions are over.
Just please don't shove Egalitarianism down my throat and tell me its for my own good.
We scrimmaged the girls team once
once
Women get heavy preferential treatment in the military already.
Women who are stronger than "me" are strapped into about 9 different kinds of weightlifting suits and eat steroids for 3 squares a day. Not to take anything away from their accomplishments (which they are) but lets be frank, most women don't have the physical power that you Nancy boys do.
I don't really give two shits, hopefully the military will start being more stringent with recruiting standards now that our little excursions are over.
Just please don't shove Egalitarianism down my throat and tell me its for my own good.
Anyone with any sense knows that Combat Arms is not the place you want to be. The food sucks, the hours are nonstandard and there is no getting out of the weather. Once you get in them it is nearly impossible to get out other than leaving the military all together.
Any woman who wants to be there is even crazier and dumber than the men who went there before.
I hope there are not that many women with such a macho complex.
Any woman who wants to be there is even crazier and dumber than the men who went there before.
I hope there are not that many women with such a macho complex.
Originally Posted by Fisherking:
You don’t carry wounded in situations like that. You drag them and your self the heck out of there on your belly.
You know the low crawl, no?
You don’t carry wounded in situations like that. You drag them and your self the heck out of there on your belly.
You know the low crawl, no?
Originally Posted by Tiaexz:
Since they don't do that, they usually drag their friend out of the way and behind the nearest cover, and generally cut them loose from any gear where possible. The picture shows them carrying comrades whilst wearing their own gear probably for a good mile or two, so long distance endurance. As GC said, he was only 180lb himself.
Better check those batteries in your sarcasm detectors, guys. Since they don't do that, they usually drag their friend out of the way and behind the nearest cover, and generally cut them loose from any gear where possible. The picture shows them carrying comrades whilst wearing their own gear probably for a good mile or two, so long distance endurance. As GC said, he was only 180lb himself.
Originally Posted by Gelatinous Cube:
And, again, not every line soldier had to be a brute. I'm not a big guy, 5'8'' and 180 lbs, and i did just fine.
And you're still taller than 90% of women and heavier than 75%.And, again, not every line soldier had to be a brute. I'm not a big guy, 5'8'' and 180 lbs, and i did just fine.
There's no denying that men are, on the whole, far heavier, taller, and stronger than women. Anyone who thinks otherwise is divorced from reality.
The military has physical standards for a reason. If women can meet these standards, there's little reason not to let them serve in combat. But the majority of women can not. Should the standards be watered down to accommodate more women? How and why were the standards determined in the first place?
I don't have the answers to these questions, but I'd like to hear from someone who does.
Soldiers should be able to test looted food for poisoning so I think a chemical education is necessery and then add a centrifuge to the gear so they can do the test on the field, you don't loot cuz you can go back to the headquarters. Also if they increase the standards for men, they can lower them for women. The men can then tank and carry the gear of the women while the women can move faster and scout and use magic for DPS. Healers have been part of the army for a while I think. Women could also use the radios becuz they like to talk and do phonecalls.
Also, is it sexist if a man says "You could fill a Dirndl."
On another note, why do women need to carry as much as men? Women are lighter precisely because they eat only salad so they only have to carry two pounds of salad which are lighter than the two pounds of pork that the men have to carry anyway. If a comrade is wounded, we just learned that the pig and his pork can be carried separately so that's no problem.
Also, is it sexist if a man says "You could fill a Dirndl."
On another note, why do women need to carry as much as men? Women are lighter precisely because they eat only salad so they only have to carry two pounds of salad which are lighter than the two pounds of pork that the men have to carry anyway. If a comrade is wounded, we just learned that the pig and his pork can be carried separately so that's no problem.
So Lyudmila Pavlinchenko killed 309 heavier men than her. Perhaps the German/Italians/Hungarians/Rumanian/Croatian and other German Allies or auxiliaries soldiers should have been more agile and less fat. And she carried her Mosin-Nagant and her gear herself.
Originally Posted by Brenus:
So Lyudmila Pavlinchenko killed 309 heavier men than her. Perhaps the German/Italians/Hungarians/Rumanian/Croatian and other German Allies or auxiliaries soldiers should have been more agile and less fat. And she carried her Mosin-Nagant and her gear herself.
But how many wounded men did she carry? If one of her comrades died because she couldn't drag him and his rucksack out of the hatch of an exploded tank, then her service clearly was a failure. Military prowess is not measured by the combat performance but by the amount of men you can carry at any given time, if I learned anything from this debate.So Lyudmila Pavlinchenko killed 309 heavier men than her. Perhaps the German/Italians/Hungarians/Rumanian/Croatian and other German Allies or auxiliaries soldiers should have been more agile and less fat. And she carried her Mosin-Nagant and her gear herself.
“But how many wounded men did she carry?” How many soldiers carried wounded comrades? It is so exceptional that it deserved a medal… And her role was not to carry wounded soldier, you have specialist units for this.
The carrying body is just for exercise, as most of the time, when in assault, you are told NOT to do it.
I remember doing it, and on a short distance it is feasible, then you go for the stretchers, and this, this is hell, especially in rocky terrain and snow… Sweat a lot, mind you… For the one "volunteer" on the stretchers, mostly...
So this a very bad reason to exclude women for the Front Line. And to pretend, even if she would have failed to carry a soldier (and let face the fact that most of the male soldiers would fail) the killing enemies is the duty of soldier, not saving yours.
“Military prowess is not measured by the combat performance”: Well, yes. I, and you will not believe it, saw a soldier who couldn’t make an injection… He just couldn’t. His comrade was in agony, begging for morphine (theoretically), and this useless one couldn’t succeed to do it.
Like the grenade bit, you know the pin with the teeth. I never succeeded to do it; I had to use my fingers… So was I a soldier or a failure? Jumping from a plane is nothing compared to this, no?
The carrying body is just for exercise, as most of the time, when in assault, you are told NOT to do it.
I remember doing it, and on a short distance it is feasible, then you go for the stretchers, and this, this is hell, especially in rocky terrain and snow… Sweat a lot, mind you… For the one "volunteer" on the stretchers, mostly...
So this a very bad reason to exclude women for the Front Line. And to pretend, even if she would have failed to carry a soldier (and let face the fact that most of the male soldiers would fail) the killing enemies is the duty of soldier, not saving yours.
“Military prowess is not measured by the combat performance”: Well, yes. I, and you will not believe it, saw a soldier who couldn’t make an injection… He just couldn’t. His comrade was in agony, begging for morphine (theoretically), and this useless one couldn’t succeed to do it.
Like the grenade bit, you know the pin with the teeth. I never succeeded to do it; I had to use my fingers… So was I a soldier or a failure? Jumping from a plane is nothing compared to this, no?
I'll give it a shot.
***
My attempt is steaming with too much asperity; it's not ironic enough. The use of stereotypes is not layered with anything clever. There isn't enough tie-in to the points being mocked.
I have to hand it to Husar, that post was the best of its kind he's ever made.
Originally Posted by :
How many soldiers carried wounded comrades? It is so exceptional that it deserved a medal…
How many soldiers carried wounded comrades? It is so exceptional that it deserved a medal…
Originally Posted by :
The carrying body is just for exercise, as most of the time, when in assault, you are told NOT to do it.
A medal? She would probably wear it as jewelry and a sniper would shoot her and loot her corpse (which her fellow soldettes wouldn't notice while chirping and harping over the bossiness of their male NCOs, and how all their clothes are so plain and unfashionable).The carrying body is just for exercise, as most of the time, when in assault, you are told NOT to do it.
Originally Posted by :
And to pretend, even if she would have failed to carry a soldier (and let face the fact that most of the male soldiers would fail) the killing enemies is the duty of soldier, not saving yours.
Women would be terrible in this role, as they tend to eschew rifles in favor of nails.And to pretend, even if she would have failed to carry a soldier (and let face the fact that most of the male soldiers would fail) the killing enemies is the duty of soldier, not saving yours.
Originally Posted by :
Well, yes. I, and you will not believe it, saw a soldier who couldn’t make an injection… He just couldn’t. His comrade was in agony, begging for morphine (theoretically), and this useless one couldn’t succeed to do it.
That's practically like being a nurse though. The last time we tried women in the role of nurse was Florence Nightingale, and she was so busy penning essays on womens' suffrage that 70% of her patients died within a day. Never again.Well, yes. I, and you will not believe it, saw a soldier who couldn’t make an injection… He just couldn’t. His comrade was in agony, begging for morphine (theoretically), and this useless one couldn’t succeed to do it.
Originally Posted by :
Like the grenade bit, you know the pin with the teeth.
Unfortunately, women are too weak to pull the pin by hand, and with the teeth they'll come to think in terms of sexual roleplay. They'll be twirling the thing seductively until the grenade goes off in their faces, causing a domino effect of casualties which would require half the men in the military to carry to safety (while the other half fight heroically to the end as a rearguard).Like the grenade bit, you know the pin with the teeth.
Originally Posted by :
Jumping from a plane is nothing compared to this, no?
We would have to lower the standards so that women jump with parasols, because they can't carry the parachute packs?Jumping from a plane is nothing compared to this, no?
***
My attempt is steaming with too much asperity; it's not ironic enough. The use of stereotypes is not layered with anything clever. There isn't enough tie-in to the points being mocked.
I have to hand it to Husar, that post was the best of its kind he's ever made.
Originally Posted by Gelatinous Cube:
You don't pull a grenade pin with your teeth, ever.
Nah - you do it once - then you use your bleeding gums the second time.You don't pull a grenade pin with your teeth, ever.
Originally Posted by Philipvs Vallindervs Calicvla:
Nah - you do it once - then you use your bleeding gums the second time.
Unless you are 'Jaws' from the Bond movie.Nah - you do it once - then you use your bleeding gums the second time.
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
Originally Posted by Philipvs Vallindervs Calicvla:
Nah - you do it once - then you use your bleeding gums the second time.
you sound like my first wifeNah - you do it once - then you use your bleeding gums the second time.
Originally Posted by Brenus:
I remember doing it, and on a short distance it is feasible, then you go for the stretchers, and this, this is hell, especially in rocky terrain and snow… Sweat a lot, mind you… For the one "volunteer" on the stretchers, mostly...
So this a very bad reason to exclude women for the Front Line.
And because the stretchers are hell, they have to carry them on their backs since that is obviously a lot easier.I remember doing it, and on a short distance it is feasible, then you go for the stretchers, and this, this is hell, especially in rocky terrain and snow… Sweat a lot, mind you… For the one "volunteer" on the stretchers, mostly...
So this a very bad reason to exclude women for the Front Line.
I watched a documentary called "Forrest Gump" once that showed how it's done. Florentine Gump would have failed in that scenario.
Originally Posted by Brenus:
And to pretend, even if she would have failed to carry a soldier (and let face the fact that most of the male soldiers would fail) the killing enemies is the duty of soldier, not saving yours.
Lies. Everybody knows that men genetically have the upper body strength to carry any other man.And to pretend, even if she would have failed to carry a soldier (and let face the fact that most of the male soldiers would fail) the killing enemies is the duty of soldier, not saving yours.
As for the shooting of enemies, that's why homosexuals were excluded as well because the men have to shoot straight.
Originally Posted by Brenus:
Like the grenade bit, you know the pin with the teeth. I never succeeded to do it; I had to use my fingers… So was I a soldier or a failure? Jumping from a plane is nothing compared to this, no?
Real men use another body part that has become erect from all the beautiful violence around them...Like the grenade bit, you know the pin with the teeth. I never succeeded to do it; I had to use my fingers… So was I a soldier or a failure? Jumping from a plane is nothing compared to this, no?
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