Things Strike Doesn't Understand About Modern Literature

**Greyblades** · 05-05-2012, 01:46

Yes I concede that the top of the wall is the safest place they could be besides castle black, but I still think there's some plausability, Martin basically tells us there was little to no chance of getting hit, yet I believe there's always the random chance of an arrow getting lucky enough that it goes over the wall and amoung those there are going to be some who are so lucky they hit something And considering the size of mance's army I think there was ample oppertunity for the miracle shot. As for the velocity, the only case of a kill from it in the chapters is a guy who was unlucky enough to fall off the side of a structure made of ice because of the impact. Seeing as the passage say's Red Alyn was "Caught in the leg" it's unknown if it penetrated his leg or gave it a somewhat hard whack. The real question is, with such odds, why mance bothered to send out archers at all, thought that might be the same reason the wildlings attacked with charriots and mammoths the first time when the only attack point is a tunnel.

**Philippus Flavius Homovallumus** · 05-05-2012, 02:20

Originally Posted by Greyblades

Yes I concede that the top of the wall is the safest place they could be besides castle black, but I still think there's some plausability, Martin basically tells us there was little to no chance of getting hit, yet I believe there's always the random chance of an arrow getting lucky enough that it goes over the wall and amoung those there are going to be some who are so lucky they hit something And considering the size of mance's army I think there was ample oppertunity for the miracle shot. As for the velocity, the only case of a kill from it in the chapters is a guy who was unlucky enough to fall off the side of a structure made of ice because of the impact. Seeing as the passage say's Red Alyn was "Caught in the leg" it's unknown if it penetrated his leg or gave it a somewhat hard whack. The real question is, with such odds, why mance bothered to send out archers at all, thought that might be the same reason the wildlings attacked with charriots and mammoths the first time when the only attack point is a tunnel.

I'm sorry, I don't think there's any chance, all the arrows should hit the wall a hundred feet short at best, I wouldn't even expect them to do half that.

Here's another brain teaser: How can a 14 year old wear full plate as Rob does?

21 is the historic age of majority for a very good reason.

**Kagemusha** · 05-05-2012, 09:24

Originally Posted by Philipvs Vallindervs Calicvla

I'm sorry, I don't think there's any chance, all the arrows should hit the wall a hundred feet short at best, I wouldn't even expect them to do half that.

Here's another brain teaser: How can a 14 year old wear full plate as Rob does?

21 is the historic age of majority for a very good reason.

No its not.In majority of cultures including European becoming of age for males has been around 15-16 years, 21 is isolated occurance and to be honest very strange. If you can go to war, vote and drive a automobile, why cant you drink alcohol or go to clubs?

**The Stranger** · 05-05-2012, 14:08

hahaha its funny that this thread turned into exactly what Strike didnt want it to turn into, a GRMM fest...

**Philippus Flavius Homovallumus** · 05-05-2012, 14:52

Originally Posted by Kagemusha

No its not.In majority of cultures including European becoming of age for males has been around 15-16 years, 21 is isolated occurance and to be honest very strange. If you can go to war, vote and drive a automobile, why cant you drink alcohol or go to clubs?

Yes it is, a very good reason - it has to do with wearing heavy armour.

21 is the historic age of majority in much of Europe because it was the age at which you could fight in war in your own right, instead of by proxy.

**The Stranger** · 05-05-2012, 15:21

and it has something to do with your brains...

**Sir Moody** · 05-05-2012, 15:55

Originally Posted by Philipvs Vallindervs Calicvla

Yes it is, a very good reason - it has to do with wearing heavy armour.

21 is the historic age of majority in much of Europe because it was the age at which you could fight in war in your own right, instead of by proxy.

nope - historically boys were trained for war as young as 7 as Pages - at around 14 they would become Squires who would fight in battles - at 21 they would become full knights.

There are accounts of Squires being promoted to Knights due to heroism in combat before the age of 21.

Squires would be trained in the same armour as the Knights and would use the armour in combat

you seem to be confusing the use of full plate with the rank of Knight - Knights were not the only ones who would wear it in fact by the late Medieval period even some footmen (low born soldiers) wore full plate

**rajpoot** · 05-05-2012, 16:43

Originally Posted by Philipvs Vallindervs Calicvla

21 is the historic age of majority in much of Europe because it was the age at which you could fight in war in your own right, instead of by proxy.

?!!

Medieval armies did not have a minimum age requirement. Long as you could fight, nothing else mattered.
And wasn't Richard Lionheart shot by a kid toting a crossbow?

**The Stranger** · 05-05-2012, 19:55

ye and what is up with that valerian steel. i smell hax. i mean hes not trying to explain that scientifically i mean whats the logical explanation there... witchcraft? i mean realzzZzzz

**Philippus Flavius Homovallumus** · 05-05-2012, 20:46

Originally Posted by Sir Moody

nope - historically boys were trained for war as young as 7 as Pages - at around 14 they would become Squires who would fight in battles - at 21 they would become full knights.

There are accounts of Squires being promoted to Knights due to heroism in combat before the age of 21.

Squires would be trained in the same armour as the Knights and would use the armour in combat

you seem to be confusing the use of full plate with the rank of Knight - Knights were not the only ones who would wear it in fact by the late Medieval period even some footmen (low born soldiers) wore full plate

Originally Posted by Greyblades

Ok, I disagree but I respect that.

Custom made armour, I would expect the king of the north would be able to afford to have armour made specifically for his build and as the commander he probably didnt have to fight as long as the rest of his knights so he didnt get as fatigued.

Originally Posted by rajpoot

?!!

Medieval armies did not have a minimum age requirement. Long as you could fight, nothing else mattered.
And wasn't Richard Lionheart shot by a kid toting a crossbow?

OK guys - come on, Sir Moody has it right but missed the point.

You can't fight a knight until you are 21 because you can't match him in heavy armour, so you can't fight for yourself.

The point is, at 14 Rob is far to young to be able to wear full plate and fight, Sir Loras at 16 likewise. Those painting you see of boy-Kings have them in fake armour much thinner than the real thing - that's fine for Joffrey playing soldier but it would put Rob or Sir Loras in a position to have their chests caved in.

**rajpoot** · 05-05-2012, 21:09

Why do you think that a person had to be 21 to wear full plate?!
Granted that some of the suits were prohibitively heavy, but a tough 16-17 year old can carry as much weight as any man.
Furthermore on average full plate suits weighed between 15-25 kgs. Which isn't all that heavy if it's distributed all over your body.

**Greyblades** · 05-05-2012, 15:58

Originally Posted by Philipvs Vallindervs Calicvla

I'm sorry, I don't think there's any chance, all the arrows should hit the wall a hundred feet short at best, I wouldn't even expect them to do half that.

Ok, I disagree but I respect that.

Here's another brain teaser: How can a 14 year old wear full plate as Rob does?

21 is the historic age of majority for a very good reason.

Custom made armour, I would expect the king of the north would be able to afford to have armour made specifically for his build and as the commander he probably didnt have to fight as long as the rest of his knights so he didnt get as fatigued.