North Carolina Passes Amendment Banning Same-sex Unions

[PanzerJaeger]

The contradictions of the bible are unimportant, and so is the supernatural thinking. Wrong focus. Plenty of people ditch those and become atheists with no real improvement. I was given history books in high school ( a liberal place generally) that were far worse than any intelligent design. Science has put forth many nonsensical theories. At least christianity is a known quantity with basically good principles. I'll cut it here because I'm kind of rambling.

Wrong focus? That is exactly where the focus should be. Christian intolerance of homosexuality stems directly from a few passages in the bible. Any time someone expounds on the immorality of homosexuality or the 'fact' that traditional marriage is the only one sanctioned by god (and that is the rationale behind opposition to gay marriage, whether the opponents choose to cower behind semantics or not), it should be immediately noted that they also believe a myriad of other crazy things. The problem is that Christian teaching receives way too much undeserved credibility. If you begin to view the story of Jesus as a first effort at zombie fan fiction instead of the sacred words of a very random and contradictory god, it becomes much more difficult to take anything in the bible seriously.

Best start working on the Islamist then, I hear that in some parts of the world they kill homosexuals. Where is the hue and cry for justice from the LGBT comunity on the NBC or BBC or FOX news channels for that matter. As I stated earlier the more you push against something ingrained in Western society the more push back you have. To blantantly say "That can't work" for pushing the idea of unions that contain all the elements of"marriage" shows how it isn't about "rights" it's about abolishing judeo-christian "beliefs". Again, I ask where is the uproar over the death of homosxuals in the middle east? Seems marriage can be trival when you have to worry about that?

You do realize that the LGBT community and human rights activists speak out all the time about the persecution of homosexuals in the Middle East, right?

In any event, could this effort in diversion be more obvious? 'Why should American gays complain, at least we don't stone them?' I don't know about you, but I have higher standards for the United States than I do for Saudi Arabia.

The LGBT community has one thing right, if they love their partner then they should have the same rights as what a traditional "marriage" entails. But you need to be fighting it at the legal level not the church level. I would rightly blame the politicians for using this as a stump talk. It should be how to "include" not "exclude". But then the radicals on both sides wouldn't like that would they?

Your understanding couldn't be more twisted. The gay marriage movement has nothing at all to do with the church or changing religious practices. No one is trying to force religious institutions to do... anything. On the other hand, the religious Right preaches anti-gay hatred from the pulpit. They are approaching the issue strictly from the 'church level' and, as usual, cannot seem to comprehend the separation of church and state.

[Jack50]

My point was that you don't hear about these in our daily news cycle. The LGBT movement is so caught up in trying to make what is a legal matter into the bogeyman of Judeo-Christian principles that the bigger picture isn't there. Most true Christians as myself have no problem with the status of union between people. It is the LGBT community that won't step down the Rhetoric and actually work to the betterment of all LGBT's. That was my point about the middle east. You should hold Saudia Arabia to the same standard as you keep decrying religion, religion and it is the Islamic law that states to stone them, won't find it in the bible. You sir are the one who has it twisted. Try to make your arguement on the basis of law and forego the religious element. Then you will find a large middle ground of secular and christian people who have cause with you. If you need to see how it would work in a few yeas rather than the way things are going now, look to Dr. King and how blacks and whites religious and secular came togather to remove a vile stain on america's history.

Those against them shout the same things heard now. We need to tear down the societal fabric of Western civilization because we want our share(meaning the largest share) right now and we get to decide how it will look and function and be. This is why a state like NC doesn't want to see this in their state. I don't agree with the way they went about it but then maybe the LGBT can take some of that blame, seems there is enough to go around. At least this brings out the Christian bashers. Allows me to d othe Lord's work that way

[ICantSpellDawg]

Us Christians believe in a number of crazy things. Most of our religion is predicated on crazy things that require faith. There are enough passages in the bible to suggest that homosexuality is an abomination in the eyes of the Church. You are arguing against the Christian religion to say "do away with the crazy stuff". You are fine with doing that, but don't be surprised when Christians dismiss you as just being anti-Christian. You are by your own admission. God knows that burning bushes and talking through them to people in the wilderness is crazy, but so is a the idea that there is a God who cares about what we do to one another. I like the crazier aspects of my faith, especially the ones about transubstantiation and the Virgin Birth. Or how about the one where Jesus rises from the dead, or tells people that he will come to give them eternal life on the last day, or the one where he tells everyone that he is the son of God and no one will get to heaven except through him. I'm pretty sure that I'm ok with the idea that he may not be in favor of gay marriage. That is one of the least crazy things in the Bible.

You offer emptiness and there is no convincing reason, from a religious or secular perspective, to be in favor of equalizing homosexual relationships with heterosexual marital relationships. But maybe that's just me, or arguably 50% of the population of the United States.

I'm off to bed, to dream of amending state constitutions to ban recognition of same-sex marriages as special relationships, equal to male female marriage and above all other types of relationships.


"An argument made by philosopher Hilary Putnam, among others, states that some forms of relativism make it impossible to believe one is in error. If there is no truth beyond an individual's belief that something is true, then an individual cannot hold their own beliefs to be false or mistaken. A related criticism is that relativizing truth to individuals destroys the distinction between truth and belief."

We come to an impasse, therefore, we settle with a duel and history moves on without one of us.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_Law
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liar_paradox

I love canned wikilosophy

[PanzerJaeger]

I'm pretty sure that I'm ok with the idea that he may not be in favor of gay marriage.

Based on... what? I'm just curious. If it's Leviticus, do you live by all the social codes proscribed in that text? If it is from the writings of Paul, do you also support slavery and the oppression of women?

[Ironside]

And 50% of statistics are made up.

That's a good one. Now, going with the much better divorces/1000 marriages, Sweden is notably more faithful than the US.

My point was that you don't hear about these in our daily news cycle. The LGBT movement is so caught up in trying to make what is a legal matter into the bogeyman of Judeo-Christian principles that the bigger picture isn't there. Most true Christians as myself have no problem with the status of union between people. It is the LGBT community that won't step down the Rhetoric and actually work to the betterment of all LGBT's.

For curiousity, how much of the most aggressive rethoric is actually coming from the LGBT community and not from those "false" Christians?

For example, anyone sing "hen" (a gender neutral personal pronoun) on for example forum posters are feminazis who are trying to destroy all forms of gender and replace all use of han (he) and hon (she) with a single pronoun.
Yet even the most aggressive gender neutral user are keeping this as a secret agenda, since they've never suggested it.