The Elephant in the room.

[Kadagar_AV]

That religion isn't mentioned isn't the same as it not being a factor though.

However, when they talk about non-western assault rapists, I am ready to bet pretty big money that they don't talk about Japanese Buddhists...

[Ser Clegane]

Well to quote from the other article on the 2010 numbers:

“Statistics regarding assault rapists:
The Oslo Police District has given a report of rapes in Oslo in 2010. The report shows that for all types of rape, except assault rape, European perpetrators are in the majority, and they are mostly Norwegian. Assault rapes covers only five identified unique person. These have all a foreign origin. The number is however, so low that it does not provide a basis for drawing conclusions with regard to country of origin. Two of them were very young (under 18) and two had severe psychiatric diagnoses and cannot be regarded as representative of their ethnic culture. It is highlighted in the report that generalizations like “Oslo’s rapists are foreigners”, which have been seen in media, are wrong. The report gives no statistics regarding religion of rapists.

Yours Sincerely,
Grethe Kleivan
Deputy Director General, “

So - based on that religion, culture etc. might or might not be a factor. You can of course speculate - but the claim that statistics prove that all assault rapes (and suggesting that all is a pretty massive number) are done by muslims is false - plain and simple.

[HoreTore]

That religion isn't mentioned isn't the same as it not being a factor though.

However, when they talk about non-western assault rapists, I am ready to bet pretty big money that they don't talk about Japanese Buddhists...

No, the main perps are easterrn europe, africa and the middle east.

And the number is 41 in three years. If we exclude serial rapists, that means at most 41 offenders, from an immigrant population of about 600.000. Yes, those 41 are obviously reason enough to throw out the other 599.959....

And as usual, the nonsensical rambling from the racists about "100% muslims" is utterly false. But having 100% muslims does make a good story of course, lies are usually good stories.

[Kadagar_AV]

You are of course right Ser Clegane.

It would have been better phrased "from the statistics it is safe to assume that a immigrant from a islamic country is several thousand percent more likely to commit rape than a Norwegian borne one". Depending on how you work the numbers, I get that they are between 2000% (if HoreTore would do the math) - 5000% (if Fragony did the math) more likely to commit a rape crime.

I'd estimate it to be around 3500% more likely, which is the number I got doing the math for Sweden.

So yes, of course no one would claim that only Muslim immigrants rape.

But isn't the real question why we allow a culture with several thousand percent higher rape statistics to take root in our society.

[Kadagar_AV]

No, the main perps are easterrn europe, africa and the middle east.

And the number is 41 in three years. If we exclude serial rapists, that means at most 41 offenders, from an immigrant population of about 600.000. Yes, those 41 are obviously reason enough to throw out the other 599.959....

And as usual, the nonsensical rambling from the racists about "100% muslims" is utterly false. But having 100% muslims does make a good story of course, lies are usually good stories.

No, the MENA immigrants should be kicked out for plenty of other reasons as well. That 41 of your fellow countrymen got their sexual lives destroyed because people like you are doing a social experiment is but a minor factor compared to the other problems.

[Ser Clegane]

I have to admit I'd be very curious to see your calculations...

Does "depending on how you work the numbers" include in this case the option to make up numbers based on what you feel must be true?

[Fragony]

Well to quote from the other article on the 2010 numbers:


So - based on that religion, culture etc. might or might not be a factor. You can of course speculate - but the claim that statistics prove that all assault rapes (and suggesting that all is a pretty massive number) are done by muslims is false - plain and simple.

100% isn't straightforward enough for you tastes?

[Kadagar_AV]

Ser Clegane, I have been interested in these questions for years, so it's not a simple calc.

And again, depending on how you factor stuff in you get very different outcomes.

Run some numbers yourself, plenty of info out there.

[Kralizec]

And about the allegations that this was handled poorly because of the offenders ethnicity... Do I really have to point out that that allegation is completely unfounded and nothing more than the fantasy of one commentator?

I wish I had a 'handringing' smilie.

*Not true and you effin know it.

Like I've posted on page two, the only thing that suggests the police ignored the case because of their ethnic background is a former Labour MP making that accusation in the Telegraph- or at least, I've not found anything else. If there is actually any other evidence of it I'd certainly like to see it.

I take it you're basing all this on "common sense" as opposed to information, right?

[HoreTore]

Another interesting rape statistic:

99.99-whateverpercent of rapes(and similar for most other crimes, in fact) are committed by men. Why isn't the extreme right calling for severe limitations on the liberty of males? It would be silly, that's why. Just as silly as putting restrictions on any other group X.

[Fragony]

Another interesting rape statistic:

99.99-whateverpercent of rapes(and similar for most other crimes, in fact) are committed by men. Why isn't the extreme right calling for severe limitations on the liberty of males? It would be silly, that's why. Just as silly as putting restrictions on any other group X.

I just happen to care more for the women who just want to do their thing than I care for men for men who won't let them. In the seventies I would be seen as extreme left, just saying

[rory_20_uk]

Another interesting rape statistic:

99.99-whateverpercent of rapes(and similar for most other crimes, in fact) are committed by men. Why isn't the extreme right calling for severe limitations on the liberty of males? It would be silly, that's why. Just as silly as putting restrictions on any other group X.

Is that reported cases of rape? Who would believe a man was rape by a woman? What man would come forward and admit such a thing? Domestic abuse is also massively underreported. Do the authorities help, as is the case when women are underreported victims? Nope. A NHS poster even used the female gender in all their ads

Women can claim rape based that they were too drunk to consent. And as far as I am aware, no man has ever stated he was rape as he was too drunk to consent. The alcohol tolerance of men is amazing!

[Kralizec]

100% isn't straightforward enough for you tastes?

Read it again.

The report shows that for all types of rape, except assault rape, European perpetrators are in the majority, and they are mostly Norwegian. Assault rapes covers only five identified unique person. These have all a foreign origin. The number is however, so low that it does not provide a basis for drawing conclusions with regard to country of origin. Two of them were very young (under 18) and two had severe psychiatric diagnoses and cannot be regarded as representative of their ethnic culture.

[Rhyfelwyr]

Interesting. Citation needed?

Here you go. If you google "islamist gangs uk prisons" or something similar you will see plenty of articles.

[Fragony]

Read it again.

I'll take the official statement of the police over that if you don't mind

[Furunculus]

mr hollande is sending us a boat load more immigrants:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/g...to-France.html

I am quite happy to receive them.

there taxes will be nice too. :)

[Furunculus]

But isn't the real question why we allow a culture with several thousand percent higher rape statistics to take root in our society.

indeed, that is THE question.

99.99-whateverpercent of rapes(and similar for most other crimes, in fact) are committed by men. Why isn't the extreme right calling for severe limitations on the liberty of males? It would be silly, that's why. Just as silly as putting restrictions on any other group X.

well, a simple difference is that we would not be talking about whether to keep on importing non-nationals men from outside , to rape passport-holding people on the inside.

[Centurion1]

The Hunk thread?
No I really havent heard of such a subforum. Theres not one the index page.

dear god boy!

we need to acclimate you to human sarcasm and give a brief lesson on interpreting it through writing. Did you think that Swift really wanted to eat Irish babies as well?

Strike if I may weigh in a little bit on your statement regarding statistical reckoning.... as someone who does stats and stares at excel all day for work I feel the need to point out to you that those numbers differences between each other are more than workable with. The math would be a bother and I would never do it because those two numbers aren't really enough for an accurate assessment but any individual who take a couple semesters of stats in university could do it with some references. The issue would be verifying the reports and dealing with the inevitable outliers.

That being said our dear friend Kadagar's numbers are in fact off. I doubt he took any of the variables you mentioned into account and probably did some basic division across the population parameters and didnt even account for a potential rejection of his hypotheses as well as likely operated under the assumption that the factors would all remain constant throughout the levels of population which of course they would not do.

The number of these immigrant groups (slav (that one hurts my heritage to write), muslim, african) would likely be higher but not that dramatically high of a number. I must say though I also expect rape victims that those kinds of men would find themselves most able to target (other poor immigrants from similar ethnic backgrounds) would be much more likely to under report than ethnic Norwegians.

Well im off to write a fifteen page paper in 36 hours. Kill me now.

[Fragony]

indeed, that is THE question.

Easily answered, during the oil crisis in the seventies what was then the EU struck a deal with the Arab countries, we get their oil as long as we don't halt islam in any way. We basicly got sold out. And yes I got links for that

[Kadagar_AV]

Easily answered, during the oil crisis in the seventies what was then the EU struck a deal with the Arab countries, we get their oil as long as we don't halt islam in any way. We basicly got sold out. And yes I got links for that

But... Are they valid?

[Kadagar_AV]

Strike if I may weigh in a little bit on your statement regarding statistical reckoning.... as someone who does stats and stares at excel all day for work I feel the need to point out to you that those numbers differences between each other are more than workable with. The math would be a bother and I would never do it because those two numbers aren't really enough for an accurate assessment but any individual who take a couple semesters of stats in university could do it with some references. The issue would be verifying the reports and dealing with the inevitable outliers.

That being said our dear friend Kadagar's numbers are in fact off. I doubt he took any of the variables you mentioned into account and probably did some basic division across the population parameters and didnt even account for a potential rejection of his hypotheses as well as likely operated under the assumption that the factors would all remain constant throughout the levels of population which of course they would not do.

The number of these immigrant groups (slav (that one hurts my heritage to write), muslim, african) would likely be higher but not that dramatically high of a number. I must say though I also expect rape victims that those kinds of men would find themselves most able to target (other poor immigrants from similar ethnic backgrounds) would be much more likely to under report than ethnic Norwegians.

I based my math on state criminal reports, immigration data, local geographical data and so on...

I think that the very crude base - If I remember the BRÅ report correctly - data states that 0,7 out of 1000 people with Swedish parents are accused of rape, whereas 5,6 out of 1000 who are not borne here are accused of rape.

If you then factor in that the other nordic countries are big immigrant groups, and that we also have western immigration, you have to try to discern what different groups of immigrants are doing.

Asian (as by Frags wonderful definition of Asian) immigrants are, as an example, underrepresented. So some group must pick up that slack.

[Fragony]

But... Are they valid?

Yeah this is just about the summary http://www.oilforimmigration.org/facts/?page_id=49 but you can easily find it, Strassbourgh 1976

[HoreTore]

Easily answered, during the oil crisis in the seventies what was then the EU struck a deal with the Arab countries, we get their oil as long as we don't halt islam in any way. We basicly got sold out. And yes I got links for that

Ah, the sweet, sweet scent of a paranoid mind....

[Fragony]

Ah, the sweet, sweet scent of a paranoid mind....

Take it how you want it but it is very much real, islamisation is a EU project. Kinda a coincidence all of course.

[HoreTore]

Take it how you want it but it is very much real, islamisation is a EU project. Kinda a coincidence all of course.

Is "positive neutrality" a term you're familiar with, frags?

[Fragony]

Is "positive neutrality" a term you're familiar with, frags?

There is nothing passive about Europe's immigration policy. There is even a quotum on how many immigrants are supposed to wash up here. Also check out EAD if you think I don't know my stuff.

[Kralizec]

1) the EU did not exist in its current form in 1976; it was called the EC
2) the "Parliamentary Association for Euro-Arab Co-operation" was not an initiative from the EC. It just has parliament members from EC member states in it, who don't even represent their entire respective parliaments.

Even if we were to assume that this PAEAC is the EU, and that it had the authority to do what anything you're accusing them of, there's nothing in that declaration that comes close to what you described.

As for that resolution itself, a google search only returns results that have Bat Ye'Or written all over it. Except maybe this one, which doesn't list a conference in Strasbourg that year.

[Fragony]

1) the EU did not exist in its current form in 1976; it was called the EC
2) the "Parliamentary Association for Euro-Arab Co-operation" was not an initiative from the EC. It just has parliament members from EC member states in it, who don't even represent their entire respective parliaments.

Even if we were to assume that this PAEAC is the EU, and that it had the authority to do what anything you're accusing them of, there's nothing in that declaration that comes close to what you described.

As for that resolution itself, a google search only returns results that have Bat Ye'Or written all over it. Except maybe this one, according to which there wasn't a conference in Strassbourg that year.

I know the EU in didn't exist in the form it does now. Bat Yor is for the full 100% fully sourced by the way, there isn't a hint of a claim she was forced to take back. That you won't find it on your quality media doesn't really surprise me, they are kinda silent about the Euro Stability Mechanism they are going to fistfuck us as well.

[HoreTore]

There is nothing passive about Europe's immigration policy. There is even a quotum on how many immigrants are supposed to wash up here. Also check out EAD if you think I don't know my stuff.

Ah, you do not know the term. Figures. My question then, is this:

How can you claim to possess a deeper knowledge(one few people are aware of) of the policies of the mid-east in the 70's, when you do not even know about the very basic policies of that time period?

"Positive Neutrality", by the way, is the term given to Nasser's policy(no idea why it hasn't been called "the Nasser Doctrine") that he would cooperate with both blocs, but align himself with none of the two. It was a policy he actively tried to spread among the third world(third world refers to non-aligned countries), and he did manage to spread it to quite a few countries, most important among those is probably the Ba'ath movement.

[Kralizec]

Bat Yor is for the full 100% fully sourced by the way, there isn't a hint of a claim she was forced to take back.

That means nothing. You never take back anything, yet you are wrong all the time.