The Elephant in the room.

[HoreTore]

...I guess if you want to be technical its actually called Hebephilia and Ephebophilia.

A 14-year old is a child. Especially with regards to sexual relations. Especially the girls.

I have personal experience in this field, perhaps as the only one here? I've had a 14-year old girl come on to me, her 25-year old substitute teacher. And I have to say that anyone who gets turned on by their clumsy advances are deeply disturbed individuals. They're children. They might look old enough, but once they start their advances you realize that they have the sexual brain of a 4-year old.

So, pedo.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

A 14-year old is a child. Especially with regards to sexual relations. Especially the girls.

I have personal experience in this field, perhaps as the only one here? I've had a 14-year old girl come on to me, her 25-year old substitute teacher. And I have to say that anyone who gets turned on by their clumsy advances are deeply disturbed individuals. They're children. They might look old enough, but once they start their advances you realize that they have the sexual brain of a 4-year old.

So, pedo.

They're not children - quite a few 14 year olds are sexually active and aware, reproductively responsible etc. What you are describing is their lack of sophistication, which is what makes them unattractive to most grown men. However, if you see a woman as merely a sex object then you can see a 14 year old as a woman for that purpose.

[HoreTore]

They're not children - quite a few 14 year olds are sexually active and aware, reproductively responsible etc. What you are describing is their lack of sophistication, which is what makes them unattractive to most grown men. However, if you see a woman as merely a sex object then you can see a 14 year old as a woman for that purpose.

And that has what relation to a healthy view on sexual relations?

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

And that has what relation to a healthy view on sexual relations?

It relates to these men seeing white girls, but not Pakistani/Afghan girls, as sex objects.

This is a problem of race relations, specifically an extreme lack of integration.

[rvg]

It relates to these men seeing white girls, but not Pakistani/Afghan girls, as sex objects.

Do they view promiscuous Pakistani/Afghan girls any better? If they don't kill them that is.

[HoreTore]

It relates to these men seeing white girls, but not Pakistani/Afghan girls, as sex objects.

This is a problem of race relations, specifically an extreme lack of integration.

And they got a harsher sentence because of that.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Do they view promiscuous Pakistani/Afghan girls any better? If they don't kill them that is.

These are 13 year old girls, they are unlikely to be promiscuous.

[rvg]

These are 13 year old girls, they are unlikely to be promiscuous.

I'm talking within the framework of the post below...

Nobody is saying "all Muslim" or "all Pakistanis" - nobody worth listening to at any rate - what people are saying is that this happened, and continues to happen, because these ethnic groups are not properly integrated into our society. They see white girls as fundamentally different to Pakistani girls, to the extent that they will do things to the former they would never dare do to the latter.

That's the definition of racism - these Pakistanis and those like them who abuse white girls are racists.

The attitude is endemic Sanjeev Bhaskar is on record saying his father told him, "you want to have fun, white girls ok, then you marry an Indian girl".

[HoreTore]

These are 13 year old girls, they are unlikely to be promiscuous.

13-year olds are actually bigger pigs than 14 and 15-year olds....

The proper answer to this thread though, is of course more feminism. We've emasculated the european male, now onto the next continent.

[rvg]

13-year olds are actually bigger pigs than 14 and 15-year olds....

The proper answer to this thread though, is of course more feminism. We've emasculated the european male, now onto the next continent.

If by the next continent you mean Africa, then yes, full speed ahead.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

I'm talking within the framework of the post below...

And yet - white boys have no problem marrying them. This was the attitude 30 years ago too - it's n't simple a reaction to modern sexual mores.

13-year olds are actually bigger pigs than 14 and 15-year olds....

The proper answer to this thread though, is of course more feminism. We've emasculated the european male, now onto the next continent.

Obviously not without less multiculturalism so that gender-equality is absorbed by immigrant groups though, right?

[rvg]

And yet - white boys have no problem marrying them. This was the attitude 30 years ago too - it's n't simple a reaction to modern sexual mores.

And that's White boys' business. White boys, like any other boys can marry whomever they manage to talk into it. They aren't required to marry anyone in particular though, nor are they required to be impartial and objective in their choices. Besides, ethnic subcultures tend not to intermingle with outsiders anyway, and there's nothing wrong with that, after all, that's what 95% of people end up doing.

[HoreTore]

And yet - white boys have no problem marrying them. This was the attitude 30 years ago too - it's n't simple a reaction to modern sexual mores.



Obviously not without less multiculturalism so that gender-equality is absorbed by immigrant groups though, right?

I have never in my life cared about culture.

A true commie knows that such nonsense belongs to the bourgeoisie.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

I have never in my life cared about culture.

A true commie knows that such nonsense belongs to the bourgeoisie.

Starting worrying - it is the issue in question.

[Greyblades]

A 14-year old is a child. Especially with regards to sexual relations. Especially the girls.

I have personal experience in this field, perhaps as the only one here? I've had a 14-year old girl come on to me, her 25-year old substitute teacher. And I have to say that anyone who gets turned on by their clumsy advances are deeply disturbed individuals. They're children. They might look old enough, but once they start their advances you realize that they have the sexual brain of a 4-year old.

So, pedo.

Not the point, I thought Viking was saying that there was no pedophillia because as a technical term a pedophile is one who sexually attracted to pre-pubescent children (13 years or younger), Hebephiles are sexually attracted to early pubescent children (11–14) and Ephebophiles are attracted to late pubescent (15 to 19). For myself I dont care what they are labled, they acted in a horrific manner and they deserve nothing less than the death penalty.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Not the point, I thought Viking was saying that there was no pedophillia because as a technical term a pedophile is one who sexually attracted to pre-pubescent children (13 years or younger), Hebephiles are sexually attracted to early pubescent children (11–14) and Ephebophiles are attracted to late pubescent (15 to 19). For myself I dont care what they are labled, they acted in a horrific manner and they deserve nothing less than the death penalty.

Actually, aren't Ephebophiles attracted to teenage boys? An Ephebe is a beardless boy.

Ah, I see from wiki the term is corrupted. I can't help thinking we should use more precise terms for sexual perversions.

[Greyblades]

Sometimes I wish we didnt need any terms for sexual perversions more kinky than Urination .

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Sometimes I wish we didnt need any terms for sexual perversions more kinky than Urination .

I often wish we still gelded perverts and hung them with iron chains.

Ah - back when the Church was righteous.

[rvg]

I often wish we still gelded perverts and hung them with iron chains.

Ah - back when the Church was righteous.

Occasionally things still get done right. This guy had a problem and did what any good father would do: he took care of it.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ody-parts.html

[Greyblades]

You know I think Stan and Kyle say it best.

[Rhyfelwyr]

The comparisons being made between this case and that of other abuse rings simply don't cut it.

First off, the victims were targeted solely because of their racial profile. Eastern Europeans women may become trapped in prostitution rings because of their poverty. Vietnamese girls may be targeted by European men because they are able to get away with it in that country. In these cases the ethnic group of the victims is not the reason why they were targeted. What makes the case with these Pakistani men unique is that they targeted their victims purely because of their race.

Secondly, another reason why the comparison doesn't work is the relationship of the perpetrators with society. European men have to travel to Vietnam to find their victims because that sort of thing would never be tolerated by European society. Pedophiles are completley ostracised, vulnerable to vigilante-justice and generally regarded as the scum of the earth. On the other hand questions are being asked about whether the nature of the Pakistani community in Britain allowed these men to operate unhindered for so long.

Thirdly, there is the question over whether political motivitions had an impact on the ability of the police to do their job. This point is still really speculation but it's worth considering, especially given that we know the police had been aware for some time that this ring was active. I find it hard to believe this is par for the course when it comes to gathering evidence - effectively sacrificing more young girls so that they could make a stronger criminal conviction. Really?

[rvg]

The comparisons being made between this case and that of other abuse rings simply don't cut it.

First off, the victims were targeted solely because of their racial profile. Eastern Europeans women may become trapped in prostitution rings because of their poverty. Vietnamese girls may be targeted by European men because they are able to get away with it in that country. In these cases the ethnic group of the victims is not the reason why they were targeted. What makes the case with these Pakistani men unique is that they targeted their victims purely because of their race.

Or is it religion? Or the fact that they thought they could do it to those girls without the fear of being lynched by their neighbors?

Secondly, another reason why the comparison doesn't work is the relationship of the perpetrators with society. European men have to travel to Vietnam to find their victims because that sort of thing would never be tolerated by European society. Pedophiles are completley ostracised, vulnerable to vigilante-justice and generally regarded as the scum of the earth. On the other hand questions are being asked about whether the nature of the Pakistani community in Britain allowed these men to operate unhindered for so long.

Now this is a valid point.

Thirdly, there is the question over whether political motivitions had an impact on the ability of the police to do their job. This point is still really speculation but it's worth considering, especially given that we know the police had been aware for some time that this ring was active. I find it hard to believe this is par for the course when it comes to gathering evidence - effectively sacrificing more young girls so that they could make a stronger criminal conviction. Really?

So who's the real monster here, the silent majority or the cops whose duty is to protect the people?

[Rhyfelwyr]

Or is it religion? Or the fact that they thought they could do it to those girls without the fear of being lynched by their neighbors?

Well religion is really synonymous with race for our purposes here, ultimately the Pakistani community as a whole regards white women as trash. Although they seem to frame it in racial terms themselves. As we heard earlier, "white women are for fun".

As to the perpetrators possibly picking white girls because their community would not allow them to attack their own, even if that was the case (which is unlikely given the above), it would only show how deep the racism was in the wider community.

So who's the real monster here, the silent majority or the cops whose duty is to protect the people?

Well we don't know the particulars yet, although it is possible that it is down to an accumulation of errors.

[InsaneApache]

Pedo rings not restricted to just people of european descent?

Wow. That changes..... Well, nothing really.

And about the allegations that this was handled poorly because of the offenders ethnicity... Do I really have to point out that that allegation is completely unfounded *and nothing more than the fantasy of one commentator? Since it reinforced existing prejudices, it hss persisted.

The fact of the case is that 9 men have been punished by the state for their crimes. They got no special treatment, in fact they got a harsher treatment because of their culture(ref verdict).

No doubt though, the fascist rethoric will continue and be as dishonest and ignorant as it always is.

I wish I had a 'handringing' smilie.

*Not true and you effin know it.

[rvg]

Well religion is really synonymous with race for our purposes here, ultimately the Pakistani community as a whole regards white women as trash. Although they seem to frame it in racial terms themselves. As we heard earlier, "white women are for fun".

Let me ask you this, would they have extended the same kind of treatment to muslim girls (of any race) or to Christian Pakistani girls(yes, they do exist)? Keep in mind that I'm not trying to sugarcoat what they did (personally, I'd rather see them dead or in an American prison picking up the soap for the aryan brotherhood), but there's a huge difference between a racial hatred and ideological one.

[InsaneApache]

It's not religious. It's cultural. rather explodes multi-culturism wouldn't you think?

[rvg]

It's not religious. It's cultural. rather explodes multi-culturism wouldn't you think?

Never been a fan of multiculturalism myself. Speaking of culture though, don't Italian men oftentimes act pretty much the same (i.e. like complete pigs) way if they see an unescorted blonde on the streets of, say, Naples?
I can buy the cultural argument, but I can't consider this to be an indication of racism.

[Rhyfelwyr]

Let me ask you this, would they have extended the same kind of treatment to muslim girls (of any race) or to Christian Pakistani girls(yes, they do exist)?

I'm well aware of Pakistani Christians, they make up 50% of the population in one of the cities there, can't remember what one.

And the answer to your question is "no", no they do not treat Pakistani Christian girls that way, there are quite a few of them in the diaspora in Britain.

In their eyes, white girls are trash and their white skin is a clear indication of their trashy status. Not Pakistani Christian girls. Not Jewish girls. Not East Asian girls. Not any other group of girls that don't happen to be Muslim. Just white girls.

Keep in mind that I'm not trying to sugarcoat what they did (personally, I'd rather see them dead or in an American prison picking up the soap for the aryan brotherhood), but there's a huge difference between a racial hatred and ideological one.

Speaking of prison gangs the Islamists are getting massive in the UK prisons. Forcing young inmates from their community to convert to al-Qaeda ideology, taking down posters of women, banning music on their wings, smuggling tapes of suicide bomber memorials etc.

From what I've heard UK prisons are starting to sound a lot more like American prisons. Divided along racial lines and nastier in general. Another things we can thank diversity for.

[InsaneApache]

Never been a fan of multiculturalism myself. Speaking of culture though, don't Italian men oftentimes act pretty much the same (i.e. like complete pigs) way if they see an unescorted blonde on the streets of, say, Naples?
I can buy the cultural argument, but I can't consider this to be an indication of racism.

Once you get away from northern europe/scandanavia women are, pretty much, in the main regarded as slabs of meat. To be used. At whim.*

*OK broad brush but made to make a point.

[Hax]

Speaking of prison gangs the Islamists are getting massive in the UK prisons. Forcing young inmates from their community to convert to al-Qaeda ideology, taking down posters of women, banning music on their wings, smuggling tapes of suicide bomber memorials etc.

Interesting. Citation needed?