The Elephant in the room.

[InsaneApache]

For those in this thread that minimizes or otherwise deflects the issue of immigrants raping children, ponder on this.

A childs life was ruined. Never to be the same again. I have personal experience of this. It never goes away and causes emotional and psychological problems that manifest long after the event. This isn't some academic exercise in a third rate debating society. It's reality.

Hang your heads in shame.

[Fragony]

That means nothing. You never take back anything, yet you are wrong all the time.

Can't just decide I am wrong, I would have to say something that isn't true to be wrong. This is the first time you heard about the Euro Stability System by the way isn't it

[HoreTore]

For those in this thread that minimizes or otherwise deflects the issue of immigrants raping children, ponder on this.

A childs life was ruined. Never to be the same again. I have personal experience of this. It never goes away and causes emotional and psychological problems that manifest long after the event. This isn't some academic exercise in a third rate debating society. It's reality.

Hang your heads in shame.

Nonsense.

[Kralizec]

No it's not, I've heard and read about it in quality media

For those in this thread that minimizes or otherwise deflects the issue of immigrants raping children, ponder on this.

A childs life was ruined. Never to be the same again. I have personal experience of this. It never goes away and causes emotional and psychological problems that manifest long after the event. This isn't some academic exercise in a third rate debating society. It's reality.

Hang your heads in shame.

Maybe I've missed a post or two, but I don't recall that anyone here said that child rape isn't bad or anything of the sort. That's not the issue that people are disagreeing with you about.

How about you hang your head in shame for making such a low accusation?

[HoreTore]

Can't just decide I am wrong, I would have to say something that isn't true to be wrong. This is the first time you heard about the Euro Stability System by the way isn't it

It's a new time for the both of you then; it's Krazilec's first encounter with a random crackpoot theory, and it's your first encounter with basic knowledge. You should do a dance together!

[Fragony]

Nonsense.

Sure he is just making it up to rain redicule on your cranbeary meatballs.

[Kralizec]

It's a new time for the both of you then; it's Krazilec's first encounter with a random crackpoot theory, and it's your first encounter with basic knowledge. You should do a dance together!

My older brother believes in a lot of crackpot theories, and actively tries to convert everyone he knows, me included. It caused a lot of fights in our family; nowadays we usually manage to agree to disagree.

[HoreTore]

Sure he is just making it up to rain redicule on your cranbeary meatballs.

The appeal to emotions is nonsensical, as I know he would disregard it as "not his problem" if anyone pointed out the massive amounts of abuse and hardship many/most immigrants will be subject to if thrown out of Europe. Like Somali street kids, for example, the group most commonly wanted out of Norway.

People expect me to cry a river over a couple of europeans who get abused, yetthey care absolutely nothing about the tons of somalians who live in hellish conditions.

In short, such an appeal to emotion is pathetic, and more suited to a 15-year old.

[Fragony]

My older brother believes in a lot of crackpot theories, and actively tries to convert everyone he knows, me included. It caused a lot of fights in our family; nowadays we usually manage to agree to disagree.

It's perfectly documented, or did your brother claim it wasn't.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

No it's not, I've heard and read about it in quality media




Maybe I've missed a post or two, but I don't recall that anyone here said that child rape isn't bad or anything of the sort. That's not the issue that people are disagreeing with you about.

How about you hang your head in shame for making such a low accusation?

This is an issue of immigration because the perpertrators all all immigrants - without our current immigration policies these men would not be here, or would have been forcefully integrated.

The point is - you have unintegrated immigrants in the UK and these immigrants are targeting the native white girls as "other" and basically less than human.

In that context, HoreTore's handwringing alternating with denial looks pretty pathetic.

Nobody's claiming we don't have native perverts - but we have managed to import this particular kind of pervert from outside.

[HoreTore]

If you can find a way to keep only the "bad" immigrants out, while letting all the "good" ones in, I'll be your campaign manager, believe me.

As such a thing seems impossible, however, I see absolutely no reason whatsoever to keep the many responsible for the actions of the few.

As an illustration of how ridiculous IA's emotional appeal is, consider the alternative version. Find a happy family, preferably with half a dozen children, where one parents is a native and the other an immigrant. Take a picture of the children with eyes like only innocent children can have, and add a text underneath that goes something along the lines of this:

"If you restrict immigration, my mommy and poppy would never have found love and happiness. I would not exist. Why, Mr. right-winger, don't you want children like me to be born and live a happy life?"

In short, a really, really low cheap shot.

[Fragony]

Before or after I kick him in the face, we owe the world nothing

[InsaneApache]

If you can find a way to keep only the "bad" immigrants out, while letting all the "good" ones in, I'll be your campaign manager, believe me.

As such a thing seems impossible, however, I see absolutely no reason whatsoever to keep the many responsible for the actions of the few.

As an illustration of how ridiculous IA's emotional appeal is, consider the alternative version. Find a happy family, preferably with half a dozen children, where one parents is a native and the other an immigrant. Take a picture of the children with eyes like only innocent children can have, and add a text underneath that goes something along the lines of this:

"If you restrict immigration, my mommy and poppy would never have found love and happiness. I would not exist. Why, Mr. right-winger, don't you want children like me to be born and live a happy life?"

In short, a really, really low cheap shot.

The point is that these immigrants were not investigated properly for fear of committing offence. THAT is a direct result of left driven political correctness. If the police hadn't been kowtowed they would have done their job properly regardless of skin colour and creed.

Still find it ridiculous?

[HoreTore]

The point is that these immigrants were not investigated properly for fear of committing offence. THAT is a direct result of left driven political correctness. If the police hadn't been kowtowed they would have done their job properly regardless of skin colour and creed.

Still find it ridiculous?

The point is that that particular accusation is a paranoid delusion without basis in reality.

The fact is that the police caught them, they were convicted and they were given a harsher sentence because of the culture you claim the police are forced to protect.

[InsaneApache]

The point is that that particular accusation is a paranoid delusion without basis in reality.

The fact is that the police caught them, they were convicted and they were given a harsher sentence because of the culture you claim the police are forced to protect.

Nope. Reality.

There have been reports of this sort of behaviour for years. Nothing was done about it and it was swept under the carpet. A Labour MP raised concerns about the lack of action five years or more ago in the House of Commons. There was a police investigation in Leeds earlier in the last decade that was quietly dropped.

Reality? Are you sure what it is?

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

If you can find a way to keep only the "bad" immigrants out, while letting all the "good" ones in, I'll be your campaign manager, believe me.

As such a thing seems impossible, however, I see absolutely no reason whatsoever to keep the many responsible for the actions of the few.

As an illustration of how ridiculous IA's emotional appeal is, consider the alternative version. Find a happy family, preferably with half a dozen children, where one parents is a native and the other an immigrant. Take a picture of the children with eyes like only innocent children can have, and add a text underneath that goes something along the lines of this:

"If you restrict immigration, my mommy and poppy would never have found love and happiness. I would not exist. Why, Mr. right-winger, don't you want children like me to be born and live a happy life?"

In short, a really, really low cheap shot.

This isn't about keeping people out, it's about what we do with them when they get here - and the side issue of whether they should be allowed to stay.

These men saw a fundamental difference between white girls and girls of their own ethnic/religious group. Worse, the group they single out is the native one which implies something about the way they see the rest of us.

This is a problem of lack of integration - while the white majority is encouraged to see everyone without regard to race or creed the minority groups coming in look down on our children because they are white.

These immigrants are inherrently racist - and I doubt the perverts are the only ones, just the most exploitative.

That is the problem.

Having said all that, we could restrict immigration based on economic circumstances - if your country's economy is in the toilet and you are coming over here to be a waiter, no dice, we don't need to import kitchen staff. On the other hand, if you're coming over to be a software engineer or a surgeon, or a chemist - please, feel welcome.

[HoreTore]

This isn't about keeping people out, it's about what we do with them when they get here - and the side issue of whether they should be allowed to stay.

These men saw a fundamental difference between white girls and girls of their own ethnic/religious group. Worse, the group they single out is the native one which implies something about the way they see the rest of us.

This is a problem of lack of integration - while the white majority is encouraged to see everyone without regard to race or creed the minority groups coming in look down on our children because they are white.

These immigrants are inherrently racist - and I doubt the perverts are the only ones, just the most exploitative.

That is the problem.

Having said all that, we could restrict immigration based on economic circumstances - if your country's economy is in the toilet and you are coming over here to be a waiter, no dice, we don't need to import kitchen staff. On the other hand, if you're coming over to be a software engineer or a surgeon, or a chemist - please, feel welcome.

That's your stance, one I haven't been arguing against.

[HoreTore]

Nope. Reality.

There have been reports of this sort of behaviour for years. Nothing was done about it and it was swept under the carpet. A Labour MP raised concerns about the lack of action five years or more ago in the House of Commons. There was a police investigation in Leeds earlier in the last decade that was quietly dropped.

Reality? Are you sure what it is?

How many times do I have to repeat the fact that these men were caught, sentenced and given additional penalty because of their "culture"?

[InsaneApache]

They were allowed to get away with it for years.

Reverse the roles.

A gang of BNP skinheads went around 'grooming' young asian lasses, plying them with drink and passing them around like a bong. Do you really believe that nothing would be done for the best part of a decade?

A chance to stop the gang was missed in 2008 by the police and the Crown Prosecution Service who have apologised for failings. The Independent Police Complaints Commission is spearheading an investigation into the botched inquiry.

http://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/...jail-1-4531005

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

How many times do I have to repeat the fact that these men were caught, sentenced and given additional penalty because of their "culture"?

The issue was first raised in 2002, a report was passed to the Police in 2005 - they were not arrested until 2010, no operation was underway to investigate the issue until 2009.


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...ed-to-act.html

http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-18005266

http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-17853560

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...sentenced.html


There is an IPCC investigation on-going, this is an acknowledged issue now.

While we're here, let's look at this guy: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...e-abusers.html

He says it's a cultural problem - and presumably he's qualified to offer that opinion - but he also says it's not about religion or Pakistani culture - it's about how they see white girls.

[HoreTore]

That is, unfortunately, how sexual abuse is usually handled. They usually takes years, this case is rather normal. In cases involving minors, the norm is that nothing is done until the victims are well into their 20's, if indeed anything ever happens.

Thetheory about being overly sensitive to culture is simply an explanation which fits an existing negative view on immigrants, nothing more.

Water under the bridge.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

That is, unfortunately, how sexual abuse is usually handled. They usually takes years, this case is rather normal. In cases involving minors, the norm is that nothing is done until the victims are well into their 20's, if indeed anything ever happens.

Thetheory about being overly sensitive to culture is simply an explanation which fits an existing negative view on immigrants, nothing more.

Water under the bridge.

I dissagree - your paradigm is flawed, because abuse that happened 30 years ago was covered up because that was the "done" thing - the institional abuse in Plymouth at a toddler group was acted on relatively swiftly once it was discovered - not after a decade or so.

[Fragony]

Even more turmoil in Oslo today. Traffic jammed for hours, all because of someone who really doesn't belong there. Police had no other choice than shooting it as he was on fire.

Wth is a moose doing the middle of Oslo hehe

[InsaneApache]

That is, unfortunately, how sexual abuse is usually handled. They usually takes years, this case is rather normal. In cases involving minors, the norm is that nothing is done until the victims are well into their 20's, if indeed anything ever happens.

Thetheory about being overly sensitive to culture is simply an explanation which fits an existing negative view on immigrants, nothing more.

Water under the bridge.

The police didn't want to investigate in case fingers were wagged and pointed with accusations of racism. It's been like this since the Macpherson report. Probably the most damaging rotten report ever commissioned by Parliament. The idea that racism is in your head and not that of the other is Kafkaesque.

[HoreTore]

I dissagree - your paradigm is flawed, because abuse that happened 30 years ago was covered up because that was the "done" thing - the institional abuse in Plymouth at a toddler group was acted on relatively swiftly once it was discovered - not after a decade or so.

Sadly, that Plymouth incident you refer to is the exception.

Find the statistic for number of people convicted of rape. Then compare that to the estimated number of rapes per year. The stats are horrible.

The only unusual thing about this case, is that someone were actually convicted. The majority of rapes are simply not reported. The majority of the rapes who are reported, end up being dropped. The majority of those who do end up in court doesn't get a conviction. That's the state of sexual crime.

That's what should be discussed, not crackpot theories from fascists.

[Fragony]

Being called a fascist is kinda becomming a badge of honour really, mentally block problem all you want, changes nada. It's a typical leftist mistake to confuse how they want things to be and what simply is. And what simply is is that white girls are targeted by muslim immigrants.

[HoreTore]

Being called a fascist is kinda becomming a badge of honour really, mentally block problem all you want, changes nada. It's a typical leftist mistake to confuse how they want things to be and what simply is. And what simply is is that white girls are targeted by muslim immigrants.

That was the case here, according to the judge who gave them a harder punishment because of it.

[Fragony]

That was the case here, according to the judge who gave them a harder punishment because of it.

They weren't exactly in a hurry to do so. There is an underlying problem here that simply needs to be adressed and that problem is muslim immigrants having absolutely no respect for western women, seeing them as whores that can be snatched at will. If you say that isn't a problem I really don't know what to say. If that makes me a fascist fine, it doesn't insult me in the slightest because I know how much it's worth.

[HoreTore]

They weren't exactly in a hurry to do so. There is an underlying problem here that simply needs to be adressed and that problem is muslim immigrants having absolutely no respect for western women, seeing them as whores that can be snatched at will. If you say that isn't a problem I really don't know what to say. If that makes me a fascist fine, it doesn't insult me in the slightest because I know how much it's worth.

I suggest you reread the thread.

[Fragony]

I suggest you reread the thread.

I umderstand your position, they got trialed and sentenced. Looks good but only on the surface, the attitude towards women is in need of a serious overhaul in some communities. Sexual harrasment is a horrible thing, and rape is the worst of humiliations. It happens way too much and it are way too often men from a certain background.

I am not out for the muslims, just not looking away either.