Fast and Furious

[Lemur]

I'm curious why they just didn't bust the straw purchasers for tax fraud/evasion. Bums off the street with gobs of cash, should have been easy.

Seems like a question for the prosecutors. According to the reporting, the field agents were bringing them plenty of options, such as the dude on food stamps spending $300k+ on firearms. For whatever reason, the prosecutors would not move. Why? That's the question.

[Xiahou]

It was nearly impossible in Arizona to bring a case against a straw purchaser. The federal prosecutors there did not consider the purchase of a huge volume of guns, or their handoff to a third party, sufficient evidence to seize them. A buyer who certified that the guns were for himself, then handed them off minutes later, hadn't necessarily lied and was free to change his mind. Even if a suspect bought 10 guns that were recovered days later at a Mexican crime scene, this didn't mean the initial purchase had been illegal. To these prosecutors, the pattern proved little. Instead, agents needed to link specific evidence of intent to commit a crime to each gun they wanted to seize.

This is weapons-grade BS. Straw purchasing is illegal under federal law. If US Attorneys said otherwise, they are lying or shockingly incompetent.

[Tellos Athenaios]

The point is, "straw purchaser" doesn't mean what you think it does in Arizona. In Arizona you're only a straw purchaser if you admit to being a straw purchaser, because otherwise it is not possible to prove that you didn't just "change your mind".

EDIT: According to the article at least, that is how the law is interpreted in Arizona.

[Xiahou]

It's a federal law- not a state law.

When you buy a gun, you are required to fill out a form as part of the background check in which you swear that you are purchasing the guns for yourself. Yes, you are allowed to later sell the guns or gift them- but you cannot purchase them with the intent of reselling them, a straw purchase. According to the article, prosecutors said they would be unable to prove that the straw purchasers had actually made straw purchases instead of buying tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of guns with their own money, driving them to a location and selling them on a whim. That alone beggars belief, but then consider that these straw purchasers repeatedly came back and bought/sold more guns and prosecutors allegedly said they still couldn't make a case? Really? Put that in front of a jury and see if they believe they're straw purchases.

Unsuprisingly, Sen. Chuck Grassley disagrees with the article's characterizations of Voth. He has released some of Voth's emails to support his argument. Of particular interest to me is where concerned gun sellers question Voth on if they'll be protected from prosecution by selling guns to obvious straw purchasers and that they're worried the guns will end up in Mexico. Voth says he'll setup a meeting with a US Attorney to reassure them and that to appreciates their cooperation in continuing to sell guns and assures him they're "continually monitoring these suspects using a variety of investigative techniques which I cannot go into detail"- when they arent....

[Noncommunist]

And there's also theories that Obama is helping the Sinaloa cartel in order to weaken Mexico and eventually achieve Manifest Destiny.

http://www.foreignpolicy.com/article...ous_conspiracy

[Major Robert Dump]

HAHA our newest holding: Mexico.

Man what a great acquisition that would be.

[Crazed Rabbit]

A rebuttal to Fortune's investigation;

In 2010, a gun dealer emailed Voth because a straw purchaser had placed a large order and the dealer wanted to know if he should order more stock. Once again, so he could comply with ATF's order to sell. Voth told him, go right ahead. Order the guns, sell to the bad guys.

On June 17, 2010 a concerned dealer wrote, "As per our discussion about over communicating I wanted to share some concerns that came up. Tuesday night I watched a segment of a Fox News report about firearms and the border. The segment, if the information was correct, is disturbing to me. When you, Emory and I met on May 13th I shared my concerns with you guys that I wanted to make sure that none of the firearms that were sold per our conversation with you and various ATF agents could or would ever end up south of the border or in the hands of the bad guys. I guess I am looking for a bit of reassurance that the guns are not getting south or in wrong hands. I know it is an ongoing investigation so there is limited information you can share with me. But as I said in our meeting, I want to help ATF with its investigation but not at the risk of agents [sic] safety because I have some very close friends that are U.S. Border Patrol agents in southern AZ as well as my concern for all the agents [sic] safety that protect our country. If possible please email me back and share with me any reassurances that you can. As always thank you for your time and I send this email with all respect and a heart felt concern to do the right thing."

Voth sent an email on April 2, 2010 saying, "Our subjects purchased 359 firearms during the month of March alone, to include numerous Barrett .50 caliber rifles," he went on, "I believe we are righteous in our plan to dismantle this entire organization and to rush in to arrest any one person without taking in to account the entire scope of the conspiracy would be ill advices to the overall good of the mission." In another email, Voth mentioned 1200 people killed in March 2010, yet still called the program "righteous."

Becca Watkins, House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform spokeswoman, has issued the following statement:

“Fortune’s story is a fantasy made up almost entirely from the accounts of individuals involved in the reckless tactics that took place in Operation Fast and Furious. It contains factual errors – including the false statement that Chairman Issa has called for Attorney General Holder’s resignation – and multiple distortions. It also hides critical information from readers – including a report in the Wall Street Journal – indicating that its primary sources may be facing criminal charges. Congressional staff gave Fortune Magazine numerous examples of false statements made by the story’s primary source and the magazine did not dispute this information. It did not, however, explain this material to its readers. The one point of agreement the Committee has with this story is its emphasis on the role Justice Department prosecutors, not just ATF agents, played in guns being transferred to drug cartels in Mexico. The allegations made in the story have been examined and rejected by congressional Republicans, Democrats, and the Justice Department.”

So it seems you shouldn't write 'investigations' based on interviewing just the accused people.

CR

[HoreTore]

HAHA our newest holding: Mexico.

Man what a great acquisition that would be.

It's your best shot at getting a national football team who can beat someone as well...