Shock News to Lawmaker: Public Money for Religious Schools Not Greatest Idea EVAR

[Lemur]

Facepalm territory here. So apparently Louisiana Governor Bobby Jindal's school reform bill includes direct subsidies for religious schools, which sounds like a bad idea on about thirty levels. But one of the local reps discovered that -- shock! -- when you fund religious schools, you don't get to pick the religion. Who knew?

Based on this and other recent flights of supreme idiocy from elected officials, I would like to propose term limits for all elected offices, followed by mandatory death camps.

Rep. Valarie Hodges, R-Watson, says she had no idea that Gov. Bobby Jindal’s overhaul of the state’s educational system might mean taxpayer support of Muslim schools.

“I actually support funding for teaching the fundamentals of America’s Founding Fathers’ religion, which is Christianity, in public schools or private schools,” the District 64 Representative said Monday.

“I liked the idea of giving parents the option of sending their children to a public school or a Christian school,” Hodges said.

Hodges mistakenly assumed that “religious” meant “Christian.” [...]

“Unfortunately it will not be limited to the Founders’ religion,” Hodges said. “We need to insure that it does not open the door to fund radical Islam schools. There are a thousand Muslim schools that have sprung up recently. I do not support using public funds for teaching Islam anywhere here in Louisiana.”

[rvg]

Based on this and other recent flights of supreme idiocy from elected officials, I would like to propose term limits for all elected offices, followed by mandatory death camps.

Sold!

[Crazed Rabbit]

Facepalm territory here. So apparently Louisiana Governor Bobby Jindal's school reform bill includes direct subsidies for religious schools, which sounds like a bad idea on about thirty levels.

So this includes vouchers students can use at religious schools, which doesn't seem completely direct. Also, could you name some of those thirty levels of badness?

CR

[InsaneApache]

Where to start.

[Centurion1]

How about with the fact that private catholic schools are often superior to their public schools in the area? As in one school parents are scared to send their kids too and another where they can feel comfortable. Religion often has very little too do with going to a Catholic high school. My school had muslims jews, protestants. It was more about people not wanting to send their kids to sub par ghetto public schools in the area than it was about Catholicism.

I mean this woman is an imbecile but Lemur is as he always does creating two distinct camps for his position and attempting to make an individual seem like an idiot for not being on his side.

[Lemur]

Also, could you name some of those thirty levels of badness?

Where to start.

Indeed, killing fish in a barrel with a 12-gauge seems sporting by comparison. You could choose a number of angles, and get at least 30 from each. Let's start with this one:

Recognized religions in the U.S.A. that would be eligible for public funding:

• Moonies (Unification Church)
• Scientologists
• Westboro Baptist Church
• Raelists
• Order of the Solar Temple
• Branch Davidians
• Missouri Synod Lutherans
• Church of All Worlds
• Church of Euthanasia
• World Church of the Creator
• Nation of Yahweh
• Nuwaubianism
• The Church of Ed Wood
• Christian Identity
• Greater Ministries International

And so on and so forth. Google 'em as you please, these are legit religions in the USA, and all or most would be eligible for public funding. There's a good reason the Founding Fathers didn't try to impose a state church; they had a fresh, bloody memory of the Wars of Religion in Europe. (My personal favorite, the Thirty Years' War, killed approximately 1/3rd of all living people in the areas we now call Germany.)

-edit-

I mean this woman is an imbecile but Lemur is [...] attempting to make an individual seem like an idiot for not being on his side.

Self-contradicting sentence is self-contradicting.

How about with the fact that private catholic schools are often superior to their public schools in the area? As in one school parents are scared to send their kids too and another where they can feel comfortable.

So the issue becomes: how to structure the law so that good parochial schools are encouraged, while we avoid giving public money to the Scientologists? Not an easy bit of lawmaking, and not one that Governor Jindal appears to have solved. See Hooahguy's recent experience at a Yeshiva for what bad parochial schooling can look like.

[Crazed Rabbit]

Well that's a fair number of good reasons not to support poorly written laws giving vouchers to all religious schools.

So the issue becomes: how to structure the law so that good parochial schools are encouraged, while we avoid giving public money to the Scientologists? Not an easy bit of lawmaking, and not one that Governor Jindal appears to have solved. See Hooahguy's recent experience at a Yeshiva for what bad parochial schooling can look like.

Are we sure this isn't the case? What this women seems to be complaining about is that Muslim schools could get money, and they might be good parochial schools.

CR

[HoreTore]

Government funding of religious schools is a bad idea.

Wanting to limit that funding to just your own religion is a candidate for the worst idea ever.

How is that anything other than pure racism, bigotry and chauvinism?

[Centurion1]

Indeed, killing fish in a barrel with a 12-gauge seems sporting by comparison. You could choose a number of angles, and get at least 30 from each. Let's start with this one:

Recognized religions in the U.S.A. that would be eligible for public funding:

• Moonies (Unification Church)
• Scientologists
• Westboro Baptist Church
• Raelists
• Order of the Solar Temple
• Branch Davidians
• Missouri Synod Lutherans
• Church of All Worlds
• Church of Euthanasia
• World Church of the Creator
• Nation of Yahweh
• Nuwaubianism
• The Church of Ed Wood
• Christian Identity
• Greater Ministries International

And so on and so forth. Google 'em as you please, these are legit religions in the USA, and all or most would be eligible for public funding. There's a good reason the Founding Fathers didn't try to impose a state church; they had a fresh, bloody memory of the Wars of Religion in Europe. (My personal favorite, the Thirty Years' War, killed approximately 1/3rd of all living people in the areas we now call Germany.)

-edit-


Self-contradicting sentence is self-contradicting.


So the issue becomes: how to structure the law so that good parochial schools are encouraged, while we avoid giving public money to the Scientologists? Not an easy bit of lawmaking, and not one that Governor Jindal appears to have solved. See Hooahguy's recent experience at a Yeshiva for what bad parochial schooling can look like.

I concur with your sentiment im really playing devils advocate here. However, I dont think a voucher for some people to send their kids to private school would necessarily be a bad thing I just dont know how to go about being selective. I would say most cartholic high schools (only high schools) are typically pretty damn good but that could just be my areas representation (DC, maryland) as I get super established schools like gonzaga and dematha.

Self-contradicting sentence is self-contradicting.

^ semi colon and but

[Centurion1]

Government funding of religious schools is a bad idea.

Wanting to limit that funding to just your own religion is a candidate for the worst idea ever.

How is that anything other than pure racism, bigotry and chauvinism?

Jesus man do you just pull words out of your rectum that are antagonistic?

It IS bigoted and probably chauvinistic as well. It is not racist. People throw around racism far too often.

[Lemur]

It IS bigoted and probably chauvinistic as well.

Actually, the lawmaker is stupid first and foremost. All else is a secondary effect.

How someone who claims to love this country can wade into the state/religion issue without understanding the history, the reasoning, the context of the Founders ... bah. It's like people who fly the American flag and don't know how to do it correctly; they're trying to be patriotic, and they're just being disrespectful.

So whatever else this woman is, it's all a side-effect of willful ignorance and painful stupidity.

[Centurion1]

Actually, the lawmaker is stupid first and foremost. All else is a secondary effect.

How someone who claims to love this country can wade into the state/religion issue without understanding the history, the reasoning, the context of the Founders ... bah. It's like people who fly the American flag and don't know how to do it correctly; they're trying to be patriotic, and they're just being disrespectful.

So whatever else this woman is, it's all a side-effect of willful ignorance and painful stupidity.

Worst part is she probably doesnt even believe the nonsense herself shes just trying to rile up her intellectually lacking base.

[HoreTore]

Jesus man do you just pull words out of your rectum that are antagonistic?

It IS bigoted and probably chauvinistic as well. It is not racist. People throw around racism far too often.

I define racism as negative prejudices and practices aimed at others because of their origin, religion(or lack of) or sexual identity. The similarities between hatred towards each of the groups are great enough that I feel perfectly comfortable lumping them all together. Thus, racism.

Though I wouldn't rule out "classical racism" in this case either, I don't see it as unlikely that some of them just don't want to give it to muslims because they're brown.

[HoreTore]

Actually, the lawmaker is stupid first and foremost. All else is a secondary effect.

How someone who claims to love this country can wade into the state/religion issue without understanding the history, the reasoning, the context of the Founders ... bah. It's like people who fly the American flag and don't know how to do it correctly; they're trying to be patriotic, and they're just being disrespectful.

So whatever else this woman is, it's all a side-effect of willful ignorance and painful stupidity.

I agree completely with this.

[Kadagar_AV]

I define racism as negative prejudices and practices aimed at others because of their origin, religion(or lack of) or sexual identity. The similarities between hatred towards each of the groups are great enough that I feel perfectly comfortable lumping them all together. Thus, racism.

Though I wouldn't rule out "classical racism" in this case either, I don't see it as unlikely that some of them just don't want to give it to muslims because they're brown.

You can't make up definitions of your own and expect people to get you.

I also fail to see what's racist about it... And I agree that the word racism gets thrown around wayyyy to easily these days.

[CBR]

Recognized religions in the U.S.A. that would be eligible for public funding:

• *snip*

Where is the Church of Founding Fathers ? Or does that go under idolatry?

[HoreTore]

You can't make up definitions of your own and expect people to get you.

I also fail to see what's racist about it... And I agree that the word racism gets thrown around wayyyy to easily these days.

I am quite far from being alone in using this definition.

Where is the Church of Founding Fathers ? Or does that go under idolatry?

I lol'ed. Hard.

[Kadagar_AV]

I am quite far from being alone in using this definition.

You are not alone being wrong then, what do you expect? A cookie?

[HoreTore]

You are not alone being wrong then, what do you expect? A cookie?

Marvellous intellect.

Words do not have an "inner meaning", words have the meaning people give it. If you wish to limit "racism" to just nazi/kkk-style racism, be my guest.

I see little reason for such a seperation, and so don't subscribe to it. The feelings and motivations are exactly the same, and so I use the same term.

And with all that said, I also believe there's a large presence of kkk-style racism at play here.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

I define racism as negative prejudices and practices aimed at others because of their origin, religion(or lack of) or sexual identity. The similarities between hatred towards each of the groups are great enough that I feel perfectly comfortable lumping them all together. Thus, racism.

Though I wouldn't rule out "classical racism" in this case either, I don't see it as unlikely that some of them just don't want to give it to muslims because they're brown.

That's a stupid definition - not least because those three prejudices don't operate in the same way.

[Major Robert Dump]

I have a shirt that says "infidel" on it.

A dumb hippie girl called me a racist.

She was using Hore Tores rationale.

[HoreTore]

I have a shirt that says "infidel" on it.

A dumb hippie girl called me a racist.

She was using Hore Tores rationale.

I sure wouldn't have called you that, so...

[Tellos Athenaios]

Public money to fund private schools? No thanks. Instead of giving parents vouchers, the state could do something, you know, useful: invest the money in its public schools to raise the standards.

[Lemur]

Instead of giving parents vouchers, the state could do something, you know, useful: invest the money in its public schools to raise the standards.

Unfortunately, throwing money at the schools doesn't seem to fix things in and of itself. Some sort of deeper reform is needed. (Note that the overall performance of charter and parochial schools is not a whole lot better. We need to crib ideas from Finland. And parents need to get off their fat posteriors and get involved with their kids' education.)

[Centurion1]

I define racism as negative prejudices and practices aimed at others because of their origin, religion(or lack of) or sexual identity. The similarities between hatred towards each of the groups are great enough that I feel perfectly comfortable lumping them all together. Thus, racism.

Though I wouldn't rule out "classical racism" in this case either, I don't see it as unlikely that some of them just don't want to give it to muslims because they're brown.

...... Who or what do you think you are? The living incarnation of the merriam webster dictionary? This is so wrong I can't even believe your serious right now.

[Kadagar_AV]

...... Who or what do you think you are? The living incarnation of the merriam webster dictionary? This is so wrong I can't even believe your serious right now.

Don't be a racist, telling him he's wrong like that...

[HoreTore]

Unfortunately, throwing money at the schools doesn't seem to fix things in and of itself. Some sort of deeper reform is needed. (Note that the overall performance of charter and parochial schools is not a whole lot better. We need to crib ideas from Finland. And parents need to get off their fat posteriors and get involved with their kids' education.)

What the article described is basically my own workday here in Norway.

Wanna know which country the ideas behind it came from, Lemur?

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Don't be a racist, telling him he's wrong like that...

I would just thank the post but...

BURN!

What the article described is basically my own workday here in Norway.

Wanna know which country the ideas behind it came from, Lemur?

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

Sweden?

Most good ideas in the last 50 years seem to have come from Sweden.

[HoreTore]

The answer is the same as for most other good things in the world.




The United States of America.

[ICantSpellDawg]

I like the idea of vouchers and dramatically different sources of education with similar base standards. Fund the catholic schools, the madrassas etc, but make sure that they use standardized testing for the core subjects and take away their accredidation if they blow it.