The Castration of Boxing

[Whacker]

Tell us about that time you outrolled a bjj purple belt

[Strike For The South]

You're not only a liar, you're also an idiot.

Life must be taxing

[Vuk]

lol, whatever you say Strike. I'm glad you two are so much smarter than all those idiots who came millennia before us!

[Centurion1]

Your a troll and an imbecile vuk. you dont know anything about boxing so stop talking about it. there is a difference between your obese inbred brothers fighting in your backyard and tow boxers going around a ring punching each other repeatedly in the face. not to mention your full of shit becase as i said bare knuckle boxers have deformed hands and even I have fracked up hands with crooked fingers because of boxing.


Also I just cannot believe that there are people on this planet who believe that the athletes of today are not stronger and faster as well as more skilled than those who came a 100 years before. Can we just close this thread because of the rampant and absurd bull vuk is spouting right now.

[Vuk]

Your a troll and an imbecile vuk. you dont know anything about boxing so stop talking about it. there is a difference between your obese inbred brothers fighting in your backyard and tow boxers going around a ring punching each other repeatedly in the face. not to mention your full of shit becase as i said bare knuckle boxers have deformed hands and even I have fracked up hands with crooked fingers because of boxing.


Also I just cannot believe that there are people on this planet who believe that the athletes of today are not stronger and faster as well as more skilled than those who came a 100 years before. Can we just close this thread because of the rampant and absurd bull vuk is spouting right now.

No Cent, it is not that I don't know about modern boxing; it is that I don't agree with modern boxing. Yes, of course you are going to get deformed fingers and knuckles if you bunch bare-knuckled a lot...just like you do with gloves, and just like you develop cauliflower ear and other conditions wrestling. That has nothing to do with whether or not it is an effective style.
Also, none of my brothers are fat you moron. I'd tell you that anyone of them could trash you, but that would not be worth my time. My bros grew up working hard their whole lives, and have been in a lot of real fights (real fights...not ameture boxing matches). Anyone of them probably has gained more real world experience in one year of their childhood and young adulthood than you have accumulated in your entire life. If you ever come to WI PM me and I'll give you my address. We'll see you talk shit then.

Also, as a student of history, I cannot believe that people nowadays are even half as good as the ancients (or even just those 100 years ago!). Due to modern bodybuilding techniques they may have larger muscles, but that does not equate to strength, speed, or skill.

[Crazed Rabbit]

Also, as a student of history, I cannot believe that people nowadays are even half as good as the ancients (or even just those 100 years ago!). Due to modern bodybuilding techniques they may have larger muscles, but that does not equate to strength, speed, or skill.

So you think accumulation of knowledge, vast improvements in nutrition, vast improvements in strength training, and improvements in coaching lead to worse athletes?



CR

[johnhughthom]

Not to mention healthcare.

[Vuk]

So you think accumulation of knowledge, vast improvements in nutrition, vast improvements in strength training, and improvements in coaching lead to worse athletes?



CR

No, and I also do not think that is really exactly what happened. We gained a lot of new knowledge and a better understanding of something, and lots knowledge and understanding of other things.
When things like H2H combat became much less important with the growing dominance of gunpowder on the battlefield, we lost much of the technique and training technique we had acquired over many hundreds of years.
As far as basic strength and speed goes, I believe living a hard life style full of intense work makes you much more balanced and better suited to deal with an enemy's force and apply your own than modern strength training ever could. Many people a few hundred years ago started the intense hardships since early childhood, and when they trained for fighting, the emphasis was on explosive speed, rather than increased muscle mass.

Modern sports medicine seems obsessed with the idea that a bigger muscle is a stronger muscle. This often is not the case, as strength often times is determined more by how someone uses the muscle than how much of it they have. I have seen very skinny people out muscle very muscular people, so to say that the only way to increase strength (or the most important way) is to increase muscle mass is false. Many people can do a lot more with a lot less.
People now adays look at it in too medical of a way, rather than judging by the results.
Also, because people's abilities on average have declined, due to an easier lifestyle, modern sports medicine has set way underestimated our species in a lot of ways.

It wasn't that long ago that modern sports medicine was saying that time tested push-ups were bad for you. Now they are just beginning to understand what people have known for hundreds of years. (ei, that they work)

So many times modern medicine contradicts traditional wisdom based on medical research, only to find out that they were wrong and there was a reason for traditional wisdom. Modern medicine does not take results into account often times.

CR, a person who spends their time working out in a gym will get a lot more muscular than a kid who grows up doing hard labour, but the kid who grows up doing hard labour will be much stronger and better suited to fighting despite his smaller muscle size.

Don't be so size focused. There is so much more to strength than just the size of a muscle.

[Crazed Rabbit]

CR, a person who spends their time working out in a gym will get a lot more muscular than a kid who grows up doing hard labour, but the kid who grows up doing hard labour will be much stronger and better suited to fighting despite his smaller muscle size.

Don't be so size focused. There is so much more to strength than just the size of a muscle.

Sometimes I wonder if you read what others write at all;

So you think accumulation of knowledge, vast improvements in nutrition, vast improvements in strength training, and improvements in coaching lead to worse athletes?

Did I say bodybuilding? Did I say muscle size? No, I said strength training. Strength.

Also, fighters don't do farm labor to gain strength. They work out. In gyms. With weights and other things.

Eh, whatever.

CR

[Vuk]

Sometimes I wonder if you read what others write at all;


Did I say bodybuilding? Did I say muscle size? No, I said strength training. Strength.

Also, fighters don't do farm labor to gain strength. They work out. In gyms. With weights and other things.

Eh, whatever.

CR

Yes, I read what you wrote CR. My point is that unfortunately, modern athletes believe the best way to gain strength is by adding muscle mass or doing exercises that add muscle mass.
Also, yes, I know fighters don't do farm labor to gain strength. My point was that back when people did a lot more heavy labor from their childhood, they had a better base to build on when they became fighters.

[Strike For The South]

Yes, I read what you wrote CR. My point is that unfortunately, modern athletes believe the best way to gain strength is by adding muscle mass or doing exercises that add muscle mass.
Also, yes, I know fighters don't do farm labor to gain strength. My point was that back when people did a lot more heavy labor from their childhood, they had a better base to build on when they became fighters.

What do you think labor and farmwork build?

Holy balls

[Vuk]

What do you think labor and farmwork build?

Holy balls

Yes, your muscle mass will increase as you get stronger, but strength is a lot more complicated than just that. There are lots of skinny guys out there who can out muscle much bigger guys.

[Strike For The South]

Yes, your muscle mass will increase as you get stronger, but strength is a lot more complicated than just that. There are lots of skinny guys out there who can out muscle much bigger guys.

what does that even mean

[Whacker]

SCIENCE

[Crazed Rabbit]

As far as basic strength and speed goes, I believe living a hard life style full of intense work makes you much more balanced and better suited to deal with an enemy's force and apply your own than modern strength training ever could. Many people a few hundred years ago started the intense hardships since early childhood, and when they trained for fighting, the emphasis was on explosive speed, rather than increased muscle mass.

Kinda skimmed past this the first time, but - how do you know anything about this? Farmers trained for explosive speed? AND WHO SAYS MODERN STRENGTH TRAINING IS ONLY ABOUT INCREASED MUSCLE MASS? Besides you, of course. You're really saying we lost the precious secrets to strength training, and our huge knowledge of the science behind it cannot possibly compete with ye-olde-strengthe techniques from the ferocious farmers/pit fighters of old?

what does that even mean

Farming, apparently, builds special muscles that are way better than the muscles you can get in a gym.

CR

[Fragony]

what does that even mean

Speed hits harder. A very strong person hits slower, it's closer to pushing than it is to hitting. Think of it in kinetics, the amount of energy delivered.

[Major Robert Dump]

Actually, guys, a lot of today's top MMA fighters do circuit training on America's farms, thanks in part to federal corn subsidies. Amongst the MMA circles, it's called "husking."

[Centurion1]

Speed hits harder. A very strong person hits slower, it's closer to pushing than it is to hitting. Think of it in kinetics, the amount of energy delivered.

After what Vuk said this is the stupidest thing I have ever heard. Having taken some physics in my lifetime and having an understanding of how a punch hits and feels I question your ability to comment on this.

Look guys I figured it out. Since Vuk worked on farms he is naturally predisposed to be a superior human being than I am. This is why he was allowed to join the military and I cannot seem to pass my medical examination. He is just stronger, faster, and more of a h2h combat expert (which is a skillset that is of paramount importance on the modern battlefield). Basically because he is a superior specimen of man he is, as i stated before, stronger, faster, and an all around better physical athlete than my frail potentially division 1 body could ever hope to be. More so I should be afraid to ever enter the state of Wisconsin because his equally fit by a long lost secret regimen of farming labor brothers would beat my butt because to them I am nothing but a fly on the wall.

I completely concede my point to vuk in regards to boxing. If only I knew that there were secret methods that could make fighters even better. God only knows why the entire boxing world has regressed in training methods when Billy Bob out on the farm in Iowa is by default the greatest athlete in the America's. So of course I also agree with vuks point that we should switch to bareknuckle boxing. Ignore the fact that a boxing glove hits with more force than 4oz mma gloves or bare fists, thats irrelevant. We need to go back to the days of 6-8 hour boxing matches where two men were too scared of breaking their hands all they did was body shots on each other with the occasional straight jab. Also ignore that they usually ended up breaking their hands which is why men like John Sullivan ended up with severe crippling arthritis in his hands and could barely bend his fingers by the time he was in his fifties. But yeah it would be sick if we could start paying for 6 hour matches where the fighters circle each other forever and rupture each others internal organs. Then we would have the pleasure of seeing someone die on the mat from a ruptured spleen. Then we can start dragging farmboys off pops corn farm and setting them to fight each other once all of those weak azz "professional athletes" die off which should be soon since all they ever do is weak modern workouts. Then to fully perfect the art of boxing we will dissolve any sort of semblance of rules in the ring. This will destroy what was once a stinky good for nothing dance of two artists and create a shuffling lumbering brawl with no regard for finesse or technique. Excuse me this would actually develop "proper combos, effective guards and real defense."

At the end of the day guys the reason that Vuk is in command of Seal Team six is because he used to work on a farm. This made him the killing machine we see before us. Hopefully, one day if I ever encounter his farm trained army of supermen I will be able to run away. BUT WAIT!!!! His body is so hardened by the menial labor he takes an absurd joy in he will easily outpace my sub 4.9 40 yard dash speed all while being +300 pounds. Did I mention that farmwork gave Vuk a physique that grants him a waist size of 32 all while being over 300 pounds. I'm going to get a job on a farm right now so I can hopefully get stronger and faster like the 21st centuries Jim Thrope, Vuk.

You buffon.

[Fragony]

'After what Vuk said this is the stupidest thing I have ever heard. Having taken some physics in my lifetime and having an understanding of how a punch hits and feels I question your ability to comment on this. '

When it's so easy? Energy doesn't get lost, with a slow punch most of it goes into moving the mass off the head you are punching, while a speedy punch hits of all the energy that goes into the hit itself.

[Vuk]

Kinda skimmed past this the first time, but - how do you know anything about this? Farmers trained for explosive speed? AND WHO SAYS MODERN STRENGTH TRAINING IS ONLY ABOUT INCREASED MUSCLE MASS? Besides you, of course. You're really saying we lost the precious secrets to strength training, and our huge knowledge of the science behind it cannot possibly compete with ye-olde-strengthe techniques from the ferocious farmers/pit fighters of old?



Farming, apparently, builds special muscles that are way better than the muscles you can get in a gym.

CR

I never said that farmers trained for explosive speed. I said that athletes 100+ years ago focused a lot more on explosive strength.
My point is that there is not a perfect correlation between strength and muscle mass. Strength has a lot more to do with knowing how to best use what you have than having massive biceps. My bros and I grew up doing some very hard work, and because of that we have always been able to out muscle people with a lot more muscle mass than us.
Don't tell me that spending 10-14 hours a day for a few weeks a year splitting hardword to burn during the winter with a 12lb maul, starting when you were just a wee child is not going to teach you something about hitting hard and fast. Don't tell me that spending 12+ hours a day digging and hauling rocks for two months to fix a septic tank, get rid of an old leech field, and put in a new one is not going to build better core strength than training 1-2 hours a day at a gym.
Don't tell me that carrying huge field stones around all day is not going to build better full body strength than working for 1-2 hours in the gym.
Muscle gained from hard work keeps going all day, and your body adapts to exhaustion and learns to use its strength very efficiently. So much of fighting is just dealing with an opponents force. Hauling, pushing, pulling, and steadying heavy loads all day (often on very rough footing) is gonna teach you that and teach you excellent ballance.
No, it alone will not make you an excellent fighter, but it is a much better base for a young fighter to have than playing computer games or basketball through their childhood.

My bros and I did work like that since we were tiny children, and we have been able to our wrestle guys much bigger than us, with much more muscle than us, who were trained wrestlers, even though all we knew about wrestling is what we learned from messing around on our spare time.
My point was not about occupation, but about time. People 100+ years ago worked much harder from a young age, and so had a much better base fitness to build on. You look at the young kids today, whether from a nice suburban neighborhood or from the ghetto, and they are pathetic. Most have never done a day's work in their lives.

Speed hits harder. A very strong person hits slower, it's closer to pushing than it is to hitting. Think of it in kinetics, the amount of energy delivered.

Agreed on the first point, but not the second. A very strong person does not necassarily hit slower. They often do because they train by slowly lifting heavy weights, which makes them able to slowly move heavy things, but not move explosively. Hard work and training focused on explosive force build muscle a lot slower, but it is possible for a very strong person to hit just as fast and potentially faster than a small person.

About speed though, I agree. KE = ½ mv².V there is the most important factor. Even small people have plenty enough mass in their bodies to throw behind their punches if they have good technique, and do plenty of damage. What really matters most of all is the speed at which they launch their arm and body forward. Something that a lot of modern amateur boxing morons don't understand. To take splitting wood as an example, I often will choose the lighter maul (say, 12 instead of 14.5lbs, and when I was younger, 8, instead of 12) because I can make it travel faster, and therefore split more effectively than if I had chosen the larger one.

After what Vuk said this is the stupidest thing I have ever heard. Having taken some physics in my lifetime and having an understanding of how a punch hits and feels I question your ability to comment on this.

Look guys I figured it out. Since Vuk worked on farms he is naturally predisposed to be a superior human being than I am. This is why he was allowed to join the military and I cannot seem to pass my medical examination. He is just stronger, faster, and more of a h2h combat expert (which is a skillset that is of paramount importance on the modern battlefield). Basically because he is a superior specimen of man he is, as i stated before, stronger, faster, and an all around better physical athlete than my frail potentially division 1 body could ever hope to be. More so I should be afraid to ever enter the state of Wisconsin because his equally fit by a long lost secret regimen of farming labor brothers would beat my butt because to them I am nothing but a fly on the wall.

I completely concede my point to vuk in regards to boxing. If only I knew that there were secret methods that could make fighters even better. God only knows why the entire boxing world has regressed in training methods when Billy Bob out on the farm in Iowa is by default the greatest athlete in the America's. So of course I also agree with vuks point that we should switch to bareknuckle boxing. Ignore the fact that a boxing glove hits with more force than 4oz mma gloves or bare fists, thats irrelevant. We need to go back to the days of 6-8 hour boxing matches where two men were too scared of breaking their hands all they did was body shots on each other with the occasional straight jab. Also ignore that they usually ended up breaking their hands which is why men like John Sullivan ended up with severe crippling arthritis in his hands and could barely bend his fingers by the time he was in his fifties. But yeah it would be sick if we could start paying for 6 hour matches where the fighters circle each other forever and rupture each others internal organs. Then we would have the pleasure of seeing someone die on the mat from a ruptured spleen. Then we can start dragging farmboys off pops corn farm and setting them to fight each other once all of those weak azz "professional athletes" die off which should be soon since all they ever do is weak modern workouts. Then to fully perfect the art of boxing we will dissolve any sort of semblance of rules in the ring. This will destroy what was once a stinky good for nothing dance of two artists and create a shuffling lumbering brawl with no regard for finesse or technique. Excuse me this would actually develop "proper combos, effective guards and real defense."

At the end of the day guys the reason that Vuk is in command of Seal Team six is because he used to work on a farm. This made him the killing machine we see before us. Hopefully, one day if I ever encounter his farm trained army of supermen I will be able to run away. BUT WAIT!!!! His body is so hardened by the menial labor he takes an absurd joy in he will easily outpace my sub 4.9 40 yard dash speed all while being +300 pounds. Did I mention that farmwork gave Vuk a physique that grants him a waist size of 32 all while being over 300 pounds. I'm going to get a job on a farm right now so I can hopefully get stronger and faster like the 21st centuries Jim Thrope, Vuk.

You buffon.

I'll take your petty insults seriously Cent when you become team leader Seal Team six or any of the other absurd accomplishments you mentioned.
And for your information dollophead, when I first tried to join the military, I was not fat at all. I was rejected because of a genetic condition that was completely beyond my control. That has nothing to do with fitness or training.
I know though, you were an amateur boxer, so that makes you an expert. You were one of thousands of flabby idiots with no form and no skill who exhausted themselves by the second round throwing ineffective punches at each other for the sake of further degrading the sport of boxing and giving themselves hardons. Sorry for doubting you Mr. Pacquiao.

And to repeat myself (since you obviously did not read my post), I was not arguing that farmers are better fighters than professional athletes. I said that 100+ years ago when people did a lot of hard work since they were young (farm work being just one example of that), they had a lot better base to then go on and be athletes, then kids who grow up in the ghetto hanging out on the side of the street, or who sit in their 300k+ house playing Playstation as kids.

[Peasant Phill]

I can't resist:

You're right Vuk, everything was better in the past. people in the past were better at things than people now who have more time and better support to train for something specific.

[Major Robert Dump]

We should have an org reunion, but instead of drinking and meeting one another, we can have Kumate. I can host, but in the interest of preventing cheating, I insist that all fighters fight naked

[Ironside]

Don't tell me that spending 10-14 hours a day for a few weeks a year splitting hardword to burn during the winter with a 12lb maul, starting when you were just a wee child is not going to teach you something about hitting hard and fast. Don't tell me that spending 12+ hours a day digging and hauling rocks for two months to fix a septic tank, get rid of an old leech field, and put in a new one is not going to build better core strength than training 1-2 hours a day at a gym.
Don't tell me that carrying huge field stones around all day is not going to build better full body strength than working for 1-2 hours in the gym.

You are of course correct. it will in particular be giving a lot more stamina, something very important in boxing and not something you pick up by strength training in a gym.

And since we all know that all the training boxers do is 1-2 hour strength training in gyms, we see the result in that they barely last one round.

That professional boxers would spend most of thier days training everything needed for boxing is a proposterous idea.

[Husar]

I think Capitalism ruined it, they're simply making a lot more money now. Switch to Communism and you can have the government return the sport to a true art form.

This is because socialist/communist governments subsidize the true arts while capitalist inverstors only care about making money. Gloves make more money because the girls can watch it, too. Or in other words, the market obviously demanded that boxers wear gloves, if you have a problem with that, you've obviously got a problem with market economics.

Also never forget to consider the monetary aspect!

[Centurion1]

I'll take your petty insults seriously Cent when you become team leader Seal Team six or any of the other absurd accomplishments you mentioned.
And for your information dollophead, when I first tried to join the military, I was not fat at all. I was rejected because of a genetic condition that was completely beyond my control. That has nothing to do with fitness or training.
I know though, you were an amateur boxer, so that makes you an expert. You were one of thousands of flabby idiots with no form and no skill who exhausted themselves by the second round throwing ineffective punches at each other for the sake of further degrading the sport of boxing and giving themselves hardons. Sorry for doubting you Mr. Pacquiao.

And to repeat myself (since you obviously did not read my post), I was not arguing that farmers are better fighters than professional athletes. I said that 100+ years ago when people did a lot of hard work since they were young (farm work being just one example of that), they had a lot better base to then go on and be athletes, then kids who grow up in the ghetto hanging out on the side of the street, or who sit in their 300k+ house playing Playstation as kids.

I don't walk around suggesting we institute a draft and place focus in military training on bayonet training like yourself. Lol I'm a flabby idiot now I guess. Coming from a boy who has said he is 300 plus pounds and is probably in no position to call anyone flabby.... so forgive me if I don't take that very seriously. Golden Gloves is a more serious competition than anything you have ever been involved in in the course of your entire life.

So now people are inferior if their houses are worth more than 300k? I never thought you would disrespect an individual based on their monetary status or that of their parents but I guess you would after all, disappointing. You know what athletes do now? They train for their respective sports. I started boxing when I was ten as a birthday present from my father (it was not requested) andkept going because I displayed a basic aptitude. I started playing football and basketball from about the age of 7 or 8. I started lifting weights when I was reaching 13 or 14 and parents allowed me too. As soon as I hit high school I started taking supplements and taking in absurd amounts of calories.

At the end of the day Vuk you know nothing about any sports, you know nothing about the human body, you know nothing about the nature of the athlete in the 21st century, and you sure as hell don't know anything about boxing.

You are right however.... Boxing is a joke and has been for quite a long time. Your "solution" is absurd though.

Edit: The absolute absurdity of someone saying an actual boxer, even amateur who has received any training has no skill when he himself bases his knowledge of boxing on youtube clips of fat rednecks in backyards fighting (a number of which I suspect mr. vuk has submitted) and barroom brawls at the family reunion (aka his town bar)

[a completely inoffensive name]

Vuk knows what he is talking about guys. As he is typing out his boxing thesis, he wears his "Insanity Workout" T-Shirt and is about to finish his last week of P90X.

[Centurion1]

Vuk knows what he is talking about guys. As he is typing out his boxing thesis, he wears his "Insanity Workout" T-Shirt and is about to finish his last week of P90X.

P90X doesnt involve enough farmwork or marines stabbing things with bayonets to interest The vuk

[Major Robert Dump]

Man, you guys are just downright meanies.

[Andres]

Please stop the personal attacks, gentlemen. You don't want me to knock you all out with a blink of my left eye. Yes, I'm that awesome.

[Centurion1]

Please stop the personal attacks, gentlemen. You don't want me to knock you all out with a blink of my left eye. Yes, I'm that awesome.

Did you train on a farm?