Why is it okay for missionaries to lie?

[HoreTore]

Do you think that communism promotes and creates economic growth?

Um, what?

If you're talking about soviet-style communism, nah. And that might explain why people who define themselves as communist rarely speak about economic growth, they are in other because of other things.(equality, hippestuff, etc). But then again, the USSR did have a very high growth rate in the years after ww2 - the consensus among histories seems to be that it represented "the height" of mass production, but that it proved completely incapable of adjusting to a changing world, which the market manages to do wonderfully.

If you're talking about China, well... It's a rather undeniable fact that China has had a growth rate of about 10% per year over the last decade or so. Whether that represents "communism" is quite debatable.

But what does that have to do with missionaries blatantly lying abiut raising the dead? The bible is quite clear about lying being a sin you know... And communism of course does not have a ban on lies

[Major Robert Dump]

I think some of them genuinely believe what they are saying

Others justify the means by the ends

And others are just doing it for money. Watch an American television ministry sometime, and you will be shocked. In statements carefully crafted by their lawyers, they outright claim that if you send them money you will be healed, riches will be bestowed on you, opportunities will arise and new doors will open, and they even suggest that the level of blessing correlates to the amount of money. Seriously, on TV. And apparently, it's prefectly legal.

My birth mom was into those shows and she was psycho religious. She would send the rent money to the 700 Club and then act surprised when we got evicted.

[HoreTore]

I get the God Channel here - it's quite fun to watch actually.

But the ones who honestly believe it - how is it possible to do so? Religious insanity, or what?

As for those who believe the end justifies the means - how do they manage to circumvent a rather direct commandment from their god so easily?

[Kralizec]

My birth mom was into those shows and she was psycho religious. She would send the rent money to the 700 Club and then act surprised when we got evicted.

Wow, that's...messed up.

[Centurion1]

Um, what?

If you're talking about soviet-style communism, nah. And that might explain why people who define themselves as communist rarely speak about economic growth, they are in other because of other things.(equality, hippestuff, etc). But then again, the USSR did have a very high growth rate in the years after ww2 - the consensus among histories seems to be that it represented "the height" of mass production, but that it proved completely incapable of adjusting to a changing world, which the market manages to do wonderfully.

If you're talking about China, well... It's a rather undeniable fact that China has had a growth rate of about 10% per year over the last decade or so. Whether that represents "communism" is quite debatable.

But what does that have to do with missionaries blatantly lying abiut raising the dead? The bible is quite clear about lying being a sin you know... And communism of course does not have a ban on lies

Because in the eyes of theoretical economics communism is a blatant enemy of the guiding principles of economic growth. Are you blatantly lying through your teeth? My econ book is pretty clear certain conditions should be present to encourage economic growth you know.

So
A. Maybe they aren't lying.

B. Maybe they think it is a miracle. There have been plenty of verified cases in the west of "miracles" that have happened that are then explained easily using western medicine and very expensive machines. For some reason I doubt that MRI and X ray machines are floating around the bush.

Just because YOU have no faith and don't believe in a God doesn't mean he isn't real. Hell, I felt self obsessed just writing that.

[HoreTore]

Because in the eyes of theoretical economics communism is a blatant enemy of the guiding principles of economic growth. Are you blatantly lying through your teeth? My econ book is pretty clear certain conditions should be present to encourage economic growth you know.

So
A. Maybe they aren't lying.

B. Maybe they think it is a miracle. There have been plenty of verified cases in the west of "miracles" that have happened that are then explained easily using western medicine and very expensive machines. For some reason I doubt that MRI and X ray machines are floating around the bush.

Just because YOU have no faith and don't believe in a God doesn't mean he isn't real. Hell, I felt self obsessed just writing that.

I would be blatantly lying if I said the USSR was the best system ever for creating economic growth. But as it happens, I don't. And seeing as I'm not a communist or favour a planned economy, why on earth would I? Both the USSR and China have, however, had two periods of very high growth. The USSR in the post-war years(until late 60's/early 70's), and China has its period now. Now, if your economy books deny that, then who's the one lying? But can that be attributed to a planned economy alone, or even at all? Doubtful in the USSR case, highly unlikely with China.

And for crying out loud - of course they're lying. A baby dead for two weeks, raised from the dead. That cannot happen, and so the tale is an obvious lie. And I bet they know it. I mean, these people are trying to convert people by performing "miracles". If they had actually managed to raise someone from the dead through the power of god, what would they do? Contact every newspaper in the world to spread the story, that's what. Not hide it away in their organizations newspaper where noone will read it and noone gets saved... So, the reason why they haven't gone to mainstream media with their story is very sinple - they know they've just made it all up.

[Papewaio]

Hypochondria, kleptomania and over diseases of the mind are around.

Would you hold the victim of a mental illness responsible for their acts?

Btw I'm not saying all missionaries have a mental illness. But some of them will crack like anyone isolated and exposed to culture shock and the euphoria of travel.

For instance are holiday romances lies because they happen under exotic locations?

I'll think you'll find when people go on holidays on ships, resorts and hotels they operate under a different set of responses then normal.

Some will believe the one night stand at the resort is the start of a life time adventure.

Self delusion exists, we lie to ourselves everyday. It's a problem where it leads to harm. Just look at the rise of obesity it's just one example of the consequences of daily small denials.

[HoreTore]

Hypochondria, kleptomania and over diseases of the mind are around.

Would you hold the victim of a mental illness responsible for their acts?

I'm not proposing to burn them at the stake, am I?

I'm interested in their motivations, not punishment...

[Major Robert Dump]

I'm interested in punishment

[HoreTore]

There are many thousands of missionaries out on actual missions at any given time. I'm sure most of them are more interested in doing good works and trying to impart their morality than in fabricating claims of miracles. There are always bad apples, though.

Then why are none of them speaking out against it?

And I don't know about the US, but the major Norwegian missionary organizations are all "pro-miracle", including such things as raising the dead. So for me, it's a fair assumption that the majority are involved with fabricating and spreading lies.

[Kralizec]

B. Maybe they think it is a miracle. There have been plenty of verified cases in the west of "miracles" that have happened that are then explained easily using western medicine and very expensive machines. For some reason I doubt that MRI and X ray machines are floating around the bush.

Sorry, but even if this is true for some cases it's still a lame excuse. Just because you don't know of a rational explanation for something (or worse: the scientific community doesn't know of one yet) doesn't mean it's okay to assume it's divine intervention. That smells of confirmation bias.