Usage of spears

[Eastern Foot-Rocker]

Reasons for overhand handling:

1. You can achieve more power in shock attack. Especially with as jump attack you can let the gravity do some work for you.

2. In close formations the butt-pike of the doru does not hinder your fellow soldiers. Also, if you are in the frontline, you can also attack enemies beside you.
Underhand you can only attack the one in front of you, because the butt-pike behind you is stuck between the formation gap. Only practicable in phalanx formation, and very unflexible.

3. When the shieldwall with the big hoplons is closed, your spear has simply more space above, then under the wall. From ground to shield only about 40 cm.

4. By overhand thrusting the head of the spear often moves forward in a circle. Your opponent has little time to recognise if the circle with the deadly iron head ends on his chest or in the flesh of his leg. Underhand, you need more power and time to move the head up or down.

5. Overhand you can emmediatelly throw, if you decide.

I think this are good suggestions. The overhand spear is more then an unpractical war-myth. Sorry for my bad english. If something isn't clear, please feel free to ask.

[Ichon]

Personally one of the best arguments for overhand grip is that the butt won't get fouled on the men behind or knock into them.

I also would not be at all surprised if the grip depended on what kind of enemy was approaching with overhand favored against enemies with large shields and close formations. The 'press' is important but somewhat overstated- more that a coordinated surge in the line would knock the opposing line and stagger their defense as even with an overhand grip vs a trained opponent who can deflect the spear with shield and duck it might be difficult and long process to score a hit. Coordinated surges which attempt to rock the opposing line off their feet even for a moment would allow a quicker resolution. Also one formation that is consistently getting knocked back would soon have rather low morale and might break.

[Aper]

not again...

lindybeige

[tupan]

Ok,

I just came home from spending a day during my vacation wearing full hoplite gear with some other neat guys and I came to the conclusion that there is no chance in hell that a couple of men can use a dory underhand while maintaining a phalanx.
I tried, but my aspis said no:)

Once the formation is set(if what we did could even be called one), the overlapping and the creation of a shield wall made of very large hoplon's that cover you from thigh to neck pretty much makes using the underhand grip useful only if you want to stab sideways and stab one of your bronze buddies to your right(you can't even stab left sideways without killing the guy on the right first because the other half of the spear will be blocked by him -_-).

That is, if you don't want to go hollywood style and move your shield for a stab thus opening yourself just enough, for a perfect amount of time, to loose both limbs before you come back in formation.
Then you just stand there...armless.

[Blxz]

Debate solved. Should I ever find myself in a modern hoplite formation I will make sure to use an overhanded grip.
Thanks for taking the time out to dredge this thread up though, your insight was actually quite interesting. Do you do that sort of thing often? I've always thought re-enacters were a bit of an odd bunch. its not common where I live.

[moonburn]

Debate solved. Should I ever find myself in a modern hoplite formation I will make sure to use an overhanded grip.
Thanks for taking the time out to dredge this thread up though, your insight was actually quite interesting. Do you do that sort of thing often? I've always thought re-enacters were a bit of an odd bunch. its not common where I live.

considering you live upside down i think you´re not quite common :X damm aussies

i do wonder how come people didn´t drop out of the southern hemisphere before newton and it´s gravity showed up

and isn´t it wierd that your water through the sinkhole runs the other way around ?

[Maeran]

Marius Marich, you do of course realise that saying you have been doing some hoplite re-enactment on this forum is guaranteed to result in someone asking if you took any photos. Just like I'm doing now

You really should just post them straight away. It saves me asking.

[Blxz]

considering you live upside down i think you´re not quite common :X damm aussies

i do wonder how come people didn´t drop out of the southern hemisphere before newton and it´s gravity showed up

and isn´t it wierd that your water through the sinkhole runs the other way around ?

Haha, thankfully before newton came around we were all living up in england. He made it possible for the British to colonise Australia. =)