The trial of Anders Behring Breivik

[Viking]

Now, if I got this right, his trial will start in a few weeks: 16 April, so I intended to start a general thread that can be updated.

Some sides of the trial has made me think of things that I have not thought of before; such as the first topic I will bring up below. While I was not in Oslo when the bomb went off, I'll be here during the trial, so if anyone wants his autograph, then that...I keed, I keed. He should get a bullet, but he won't - another dilemma.

Most of the articles that are written on the topic for the time being, are in Norwegian; so you will just have to take my word for the translations.


First out is the draft of a law that can keep people locked up as long as long it is thought that they will be at immediate risk if released. Sounds kind of creepy (especially with the article title); no idea how other countries deal with such issues (and that would be interesting to hear).

New law shall keep Breivik locked up for the rest of his life

The government are hastily introducing a new law that can keep Anders Behring Breivik locked up for the rest of his life, for his own safety.

In a text which TV2 [Norwegian TV channel] has gained access to, it is suggested that a pasient can be kept locked up in a high-security instiution of treatment as long as the police is of the opinon that there is a danger that someone will attack him in an act of revenge for what he has done.

Part of the suggestion reads:

"In very special cases, a patient might have commited grave and highly provocative acts, such as massmurder."

It goes on to say that the condition for the transfer to and confinement of the patient in this special security unit shall be "based on that there is a particularly high risk for attacks against the patient himself"

Then something for the circus.

Breivik wants [Mullah] Krekar as witness

The defence lawyers of Breivik intend to use Islamists to convince the court that [Breivik] had reasons for believeng that Muslims want to take over Norway.

Mohyeldeen Mohammad, Mullah Krekar and Arfan Bhatti may have to witness in the trial against Anders Behring Breivik.

- This is now cleared with Breivik, and it is certain that we request the presence of Krekar, Geir Lippestad, lawyer of Breivik, tells VG Nett [online version of newspaper]

...

Defence lawyer of Breivik, Vibeke Hein Bæra, tells NRK that the witnesses are selected to show that Breivik was not necessarily controlled by paranoid delusions when he planned and executed the acts of terror; and that there instead exist more people in Norway that share his view of Europe being at war.

- We want to highlight the reason for Breivik fighting his battle. He has expressed that he is fighting because he is concerned that Norway will be taken over by Muslims. For this, we want to have witnesses that can tell us something about why he got this fear.

Those names are essentially Islamists currently residing in Norway. Should any of them show up, they'd probably say "yes, we would like Norway to be a nation of Islam", and some more gibberish.

[HoreTore]

The three loonies are called in to make a case that Breivik is sane. They share the same world-view, and thus Breivik cannot be insane as they are sane, is the logic.

[rvg]

New law shall keep Breivik locked up for the rest of his life

Hey, that's not fair. The law wasn't on the books when he committed the murders. Retroactive application of a law -- now that's screwed up.

[HoreTore]

Hey, that's not fair. The law wasn't on the books when he committed the murders. Retroactive application of a law -- now that's screwed up.

This isn't the type of law you are judged by in a courtroom, this is a law concerning how medical staff should handle pasients.

[Greyblades]

...Why would they need new legislation, isn't intentional mass murder enough to get him life without parole?

[PanzerJaeger]

Yeah, don't let yourselves be talked into a Patriot Act-lite. Nearly every crime results in aggrieved victims that could conceivably want revenge.

[lars573]

...Why would they need new legislation, isn't intentional mass murder enough to get him life without parole?

Which would mean he'd be released free and clear by 2030 (assuming his trial only takes a year). You see in Norway the maximum someone can be imprisoned for is 17 years. Not a second longer, no matter what crime you were convicted of.

[Conradus]

Hey, that's not fair. The law wasn't on the books when he committed the murders. Retroactive application of a law -- now that's screwed up.

procedural laws apply on ongoing cases, isn't that standard with these things?

[Kralizec]

Hey, that's not fair. The law wasn't on the books when he committed the murders. Retroactive application of a law -- now that's screwed up.

Exactly. If anything deserves life imprisonment (or the death penalty, if you're so inclined) it's what Breivik has done. But ex post criminal laws are out of the question.

I get the impression however, that we're talking about a similar system that the Dutch have (called TBS for short). In essence, it's a psychiatric lockup, passed out alongside a jail sentence and applied (usually) after the jail sentence has been served out. When in TBS, the person gets treatment and isn't released until the institution and the judge are satisfied that the convict is unlikely to commit another (violent) crime. Which could be indefinitely.

However, even if it's not supposed to be a punitive measure on paper, it's widely regarded as de facto imprisonment that is potentially lifelong. I think retroactive application would be wrong in this case, also.

Compared to the rest of the western world the US penal codes are draconian and quite backward.

Meh. I quite agree with CR's statement. In fact, the Dutch legal system is one of the relatively few in western Europe where a life sentence actually is a life sentence. To top it, unlike most other systems, there's no way to get out earlier except by being pardoned or whatever.

[lars573]

And in Canada a life sentence means your under state supervision (of some form) for the rest of your life. But the actual incarceration is 20 to 25 years.

[Fragony]

Aye, it's rarely given but the worst of the worst get the worst of the worst. TBS is a chance you might one day wil be released, a life sentence is byebye. I believe we are the only European country doing this in fact

@Kraz