Graduation Gift. Beretta Px4 Storm & 200 Winchester full metal jacket rounds

[Montmorency]

Fear and pain only work on sane people who are not on substances, and the chances of your attacker being on substances, or not being a very sane individual are pretty high.

What leads you to believe that a statistically significant proportion of (potential) felons or petty thieves would in the event experience a psychotic episode due to drug use - not really such a common thing - to the extent of berserker insensitivity? In reality, most criminals will retreat as soon as someone brandishes a firearm.

[Vuk]

What leads you to believe that a statistically significant proportion of (potential) felons or petty thieves would in the event experience a psychotic episode due to drug use - not really such a common thing - to the extent of berserker insensitivity? In reality, most criminals will retreat as soon as someone brandishes a firearm.

I'm talking about in cases where shooting to kill/incapacitate are your only options. If I only wanted to scare people and had no intention of shooting them, I could carry around a toy! I want a gun that has all options on the table. If intimidation and winging shots fail to stop someone, I want to be able to kill them before they kill me. Quit it with your hypocritical morality.

[Greyblades]

Bah! All you gun boys are a bunch of wussies! Real men dont need guns, when we need to kill something we use our teeth!

[Montmorency]

I'm talking about in cases where shooting to kill/incapacitate are your only options. If I only wanted to scare people and had no intention of shooting them, I could carry around a toy! I want a gun that has all options on the table. If intimidation and winging shots fail to stop someone, I want to be able to kill them before they kill me. Quit it with your hypocritical morality.

When did I ever claim a moral high ground?

The point: For most criminals, revealing your weapon will cause them to abort. For most of the remainder, a wound anywhere on the body, with most any firearm projectile, will cause them to abort. Viking champions are a vanishingly small felon demographic, so arming oneself with them in mind primarily is simply a dangerous mindset.

[Vuk]

When did I ever claim a moral high ground?

The point: For most criminals, revealing your weapon will cause them to abort. For most of the remainder, a wound anywhere on the body, with most any firearm projectile, will cause them to abort. Viking champions are a vanishingly small felon demographic, so arming oneself with them in mind primarily is simply a dangerous mindset.

Why is it dangerous to have killing capabilities? I don't know why you assume that because I want a gun capable of killing I am some wacko who just wants to butcher everyone I see. First of all, I don't even carry. The only thing that would make me carry is if I was in an area with really high crime. City crime and drugs usually go together, so the chances of someone being high when they attack you is not that far fetched. Guys on drugs have gotten shot multiple times and not even realized it. They also don't make the best decisions.

I don't want to be responsible for killing anyone, which is why I carry a tire knocker in my car, along with my knives. Killing is always a last resort, but sometimes it is necessary to protect oneself. You may say that those situations are rare, but being mugged at all is rare. You arm yourself for those rare instances and hope they don't come. Of course you should use non-lethal means of defense first whenever possible, but if they never present themselves or if they fail, you had better have something definite to fall back on.

[Montmorency]

I'm speaking in principle. As someone who claims to go to pains with non-lethal or less-lethal alternatives, why would you make lethality the first and foremost trait of defensive gun use?

City crime and drugs usually go together, so the chances of someone being high when they attack you is not that far fetched. Guys on drugs have gotten shot multiple times and not even realized it. They also don't make the best decisions.

Presumably, if one lives in a Detroit or DC slum, the risk of falling victim in a larceny or felony is much higher than the average for the entire country - and thus justifies possession of a firearm for self-defense. Now, "intoxicated" does not necessitate "being in a psychotic rage". Preparing for the latter sort is like carrying a potassium cyanide tablet at all times on the off chance that the CIA will detain and interrogate you.

[Vuk]

I'm speaking in principle. As someone who claims to go to pains with non-lethal or less-lethal alternatives, why would you make lethality the first and foremost trait of defensive gun use?

Because every gun is going to have the same or mostly the same non-lethal and less-lethal abilities (intimidation, accuracy sufficient for winging shots, etc), but where they really differ is the lethal capabilities, and it is in the most dire straights when that becomes important. It is those dire straights I am concerned about. If I only wanted to scare people away I could carry a toy gun. If I wanted to just wound them, and figured I would never be in a situation where I would have to do more, I could just use my knife. Sometimes though you need more. You carry a gun for those instances.

[ICantSpellDawg]

Teeth can still be part of the arsenal