Vaccines—Who Needs 'Em?

[Papewaio]

Not taking a complete course of antibiotics gives an opportunity to create mutant strains.

Not completely immunizing a population gives an opportunity to create mutant strains.

In essence the selfish who don't get immunized are a Darwin award for the entire community. They are a very real case of endangering everyone due to gross negligence.

[Vuk]

Not taking a complete course of antibiotics gives an opportunity to create mutant strains.

Not completely immunizing a population gives an opportunity to create mutant strains.

In essence the selfish who don't get immunized are a Darwin award for the entire community. They are a very real case of endangering everyone due to gross negligence.

Oh really? Because I remember reading that bacteria responds to anti-biotics and mutates to more dangerous forms as a result.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Oh really? Because I remember reading that bacteria responds to anti-biotics and mutates to more dangerous forms as a result.

That's if you don't take the whole course some of the bacteria then survives and develops an immunity.

Think of it like this - you have a cave full of terrorists, you could just throw in one white phosphorus grenade and hope it burns them all, or you could throw in three. If you only throw in one you run the risk of one of the terrorists surviving and learning about Willie Peter.

See?

[Vuk]

That's if you don't take the whole course some of the bacteria then survives and develops an immunity.

Think of it like this - you have a cave full of terrorists, you could just throw in one white phosphorus grenade and hope it burns them all, or you could throw in three. If you only throw in one you run the risk of one of the terrorists surviving and learning about Willie Peter.

See?

I'll put it this way PVC, I know tons of people who get all their shots who get a lot sicker, a lot more often than members of my family who have not. I also know some un-immunized people who get sick a lot, and some immunized people who never get sick. The deciding factor does not seem to be whether or not they get immunized. People who never (or hardly ever) get sick in my experience, whether immunized or not are almost always the people who eat healthily, are active, and get lots of sleep.
I really have not seen any significant difference between the immunized and the unimmunized.

I'll live a relatively healthy lifestyle and be clean, and I will probably end up being much less of a threat to anyone's children than a huge amount of those who are immunized who eat shit food, who aren't clean, etc, etc.

The science is not settled on vaccines, and while some vaccines seem completely harmless to take, others are not. One type is completely different than another. I will put nothing in my body until there are enough years of proven results, without large cases of bad side-effects, and there is a scientific consensus on the issue. That is not yet the case with many vaccines.

[Sir Moody]

The science is not settled on vaccines, and while some vaccines seem completely harmless to take, others are not. One type is completely different than another. I will put nothing in my body until there are enough years of proven results, without large cases of bad side-effects, and there is a scientific consensus on the issue. That is not yet the case with many vaccines.

see no that isn't the case at all - there IS a scientific consensus on Vaccination - there has been one for decades

the Studies which attempted to prove otherwise have all been discredited - go back and read ALL the links we have posted so far and better still WATCH the video CBR posted - its very good

what you are spouting is typical conspiracy spread by groups who are Anti-Vaccination for what ever reason (be it Religion or Paranoid delusions about Government or "Big Pharma") and who ignore decades of Science and statistical evidence

go look up the World Heath Organisations figures on Measles - it was on the brink of eradication in the 90's but now after 10 years of this stupid Anti-Vac FIRST WORLD countries are seeing an upturn in almost epidemic proportions

you may think "Measles huh so what they can get spotty and itchy for a while and be perfectly fine" but Measles is a KILLER among the very young

now I wouldn't call you a "Murderer" for not vaccinating but you ARE endangering those around you - you are basically gambling with the lives of your entire community

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

I'll put it this way PVC, I know tons of people who get all their shots who get a lot sicker, a lot more often than members of my family who have not. I also know some un-immunized people who get sick a lot, and some immunized people who never get sick. The deciding factor does not seem to be whether or not they get immunized. People who never (or hardly ever) get sick in my experience, whether immunized or not are almost always the people who eat healthily, are active, and get lots of sleep.
I really have not seen any significant difference between the immunized and the unimmunized.

I'll live a relatively healthy lifestyle and be clean, and I will probably end up being much less of a threat to anyone's children than a huge amount of those who are immunized who eat shit food, who aren't clean, etc, etc.

The science is not settled on vaccines, and while some vaccines seem completely harmless to take, others are not. One type is completely different than another. I will put nothing in my body until there are enough years of proven results, without large cases of bad side-effects, and there is a scientific consensus on the issue. That is not yet the case with many vaccines.

The science has been settled for about a century

Vaccines work, Jenna proved it.

Sure, people still get sick, but not with the things they are vaccinated against.

[Montmorency]

The science is not settled on vaccines

You just profoundly insulted the intelligence of everyone following this thread.

I hope you are happy.

[Vuk]

You just profoundly insulted the intelligence of everyone following this thread.

I hope you are happy.

Yes, and on evolution and man-made global warming as well. I know.

[ajaxfetish]

Yes, accusing people who choose not to stick needles all througout themselves of being child-murderers is a perfectly rational thing.

Yes, accusing people who refuse to help eradicate deadly childhood diseases of endangering others' children is a perfectly rational thing.

I'll put it this way PVC, I know tons of people who get all their shots who get a lot sicker, a lot more often than members of my family who have not. I also know some un-immunized people who get sick a lot, and some immunized people who never get sick. The deciding factor does not seem to be whether or not they get immunized. People who never (or hardly ever) get sick in my experience, whether immunized or not are almost always the people who eat healthily, are active, and get lots of sleep.
I really have not seen any significant difference between the immunized and the unimmunized.

The most commonly experienced disease by far is the common cold, for which there is no vaccine. So, of course, both immunized people and non-immunized people are going to get sick in similar numbers. The fortunate thing is that the common cold is relatively harmless. How many immunized people do you know who are getting measles or rubella, or whooping cough? I'm guessing not a lot. As long as people like you are around, though, they'll still be here to infect children who are too young to be immunized, people with allergic reactions to vaccines, people for whom the vaccine doesn't prove effective, and of course folks like you who intentionally avoid immunization. And unfortunately, unlike the cold, these can be pretty deadly, meaning you may be making possible the deaths of people in any of those groups.

I'll live a relatively healthy lifestyle and be clean, and I will probably end up being much less of a threat to anyone's children than a huge amount of those who are immunized who eat shit food, who aren't clean, etc, etc.

Yeah, sloppier people may spread colds around more than you, and give people the sniffles. Somehow I'm not as concerned about that as I am the killer diseases you are a potential vector for.

The science is not settled on vaccines, and while some vaccines seem completely harmless to take, others are not. One type is completely different than another. I will put nothing in my body until there are enough years of proven results, without large cases of bad side-effects, and there is a scientific consensus on the issue. That is not yet the case with many vaccines.

The science is settled. You are waiting for a consensus that has already arrived, so you will presumably remain a danger to others for the rest of your life, for no good reason.

Ajax

[rory_20_uk]

I'll put it this way PVC, I know tons of people who get all their shots who get a lot sicker, a lot more often than members of my family who have not. I also know some un-immunized people who get sick a lot, and some immunized people who never get sick. The deciding factor does not seem to be whether or not they get immunized. People who never (or hardly ever) get sick in my experience, whether immunized or not are almost always the people who eat healthily, are active, and get lots of sleep.
I really have not seen any significant difference between the immunized and the unimmunized.

I'll live a relatively healthy lifestyle and be clean, and I will probably end up being much less of a threat to anyone's children than a huge amount of those who are immunized who eat shit food, who aren't clean, etc, etc.

The science is not settled on vaccines, and while some vaccines seem completely harmless to take, others are not. One type is completely different than another. I will put nothing in my body until there are enough years of proven results, without large cases of bad side-effects, and there is a scientific consensus on the issue. That is not yet the case with many vaccines.

Your views vs over 100 years of research.

Frankly I can't be bothered to write more.

[Montmorency]

Yes, and on evolution and man-made global warming as well. I know.

Are you looking for a low whistle, or something?

[jirisys]

I also know some un-immunized people who get sick a lot, and some immunized people who never get sick. The deciding factor does not seem to be whether or not they get immunized. People who never (or hardly ever) get sick in my experience, whether immunized or not are almost always the people who eat healthily, are active, and get lots of sleep.

Are you actually being serious? No one is saying that immunization stops you from getting any disease. That's asinine.

People get immunized from a particular disease. You don't see many smallpox-immunized people getting smallpox do you now?

Same thing happens with antibiotics, you stop taking them after you don't feel any more symptoms but you haven't finished the dose (or use one of those goddamn antibacterial soap). Now you got stuff like Beta-Lactamase producing e. Coli, who laugh at your puny attempts to treat them with penicillin.

I really have not seen any significant difference between the immunized and the unimmunized.

That's because there shouldn't be. Except one can easily contract Polio and could potentially start an epidemic, and the other most likely won't.

I'll live a relatively healthy lifestyle and be clean, and I will probably end up being much less of a threat to anyone's children than a huge amount of those who are immunized who eat shit food, who aren't clean, etc, etc.

I'm glad you do.

But no, because the common cold is scarcely mortal to children. Yellow fever is. And if you get bitten by a carrying mosquito, you will likely die a horrible death
(or live horrible days in a hospital bed). If you had vaccinated, you would have had around a 70% chance of not getting the virus at all.

The science is not settled on vaccines, and while some vaccines seem completely harmless to take, others are not. One type is completely different than another. I will put nothing in my body until there are enough years of proven results, without large cases of bad side-effects, and there is a scientific consensus on the issue. That is not yet the case with many vaccines.

Yes it is. Ask any scientist, you will not find one that is not condescending to you for even asking about it.

It's a risk, side-effects can be pretty bad, but compromising herd immunity and risking the life of a kid (or an adult, or many kids, or many adults) is much more important than a few days feeling like crap.

Enough years? Enough years? Go and try to get smallpox, I mean it. The only samples of viruses left are kept in laboratories, why? Vaccination. We eradicated a whole disease with vaccination, is that not proof enough? The disease has been around for millenia, and we eradicated it in only 200 years. There has not been any case of smallpox since the 90's. If that is not proof enough, then I don't know what is.

~Jirisys ()

[Tuuvi]

I'll put it this way PVC, I know tons of people who get all their shots who get a lot sicker, a lot more often than members of my family who have not. I also know some un-immunized people who get sick a lot, and some immunized people who never get sick. The deciding factor does not seem to be whether or not they get immunized. People who never (or hardly ever) get sick in my experience, whether immunized or not are almost always the people who eat healthily, are active, and get lots of sleep.
I really have not seen any significant difference between the immunized and the unimmunized.

I'll live a relatively healthy lifestyle and be clean, and I will probably end up being much less of a threat to anyone's children than a huge amount of those who are immunized who eat shit food, who aren't clean, etc, etc.

The science is not settled on vaccines, and while some vaccines seem completely harmless to take, others are not. One type is completely different than another. I will put nothing in my body until there are enough years of proven results, without large cases of bad side-effects, and there is a scientific consensus on the issue. That is not yet the case with many vaccines.

I don't think you understand how vaccines work or what they are. Like people have already said, vaccines target a specific disease; they don't prevent you from getting sick in general.

When your immune system is fighting a disease, it learns the signature of that disease and develops antibodies to defeat it. These antibodies then circulate throughout your body, looking for anything that resembles the disease they were made to defend against. If they find it, they immediately bind themselves to the disease causing pathogen and destroy it, before it can infect your body. This is why people usually don't get diseases like chicken pox more than once.

A vaccine is a non-disease causing form of the pathogen. They work by stimulating your immune system to make antibodies for the disease without making you sick from it.

[Vuk]

I don't think you understand how vaccines work or what they are. Like people have already said, vaccines target a specific disease; they don't prevent you from getting sick in general.

When your immune system is fighting a disease, it learns the signature of that disease and develops antibodies to defeat it. These antibodies then circulate throughout your body, looking for anything that resembles the disease they were made to defend against. If they find it, they immediately bind themselves to the disease causing pathogen and destroy it, before it can infect your body. This is why people usually don't get diseases like chicken pox more than once.

A vaccine is a non-disease causing form of the pathogen. They work by stimulating your immune system to make antibodies for the disease without making you sick from it.

No, I am talking about real world benefits. How many people walk around with smallpox? Why do you have to talk a smallpox vaccine if you cannot afford it?

[Tuuvi]

No, I am talking about real world benefits. How many people walk around with smallpox? Why do you have to talk a smallpox vaccine if you cannot afford it?

I thought you were talking about how you know a bunch of people who still get sick even though they were vaccinated.

The real world benefits are easy to see. If I get the chicken pox vaccine, I won't get chickenpox. If I get the polio vaccine, I won't get polio, and I won't become a cripple or die. If everyone that is able gets the polio vaccine, then the disease will die out because there won't be anyone left to infect and the disease won't be able to spread.

[Beskar]

No, I am talking about real world benefits. How many people walk around with smallpox?

You know... you are answering your own question with that. Real world benefits is that these diseases which were big time killers are now so 'trivial' due to vaccinations in your mind. It is quite mind boggling.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

No, I am talking about real world benefits. How many people walk around with smallpox? Why do you have to talk a smallpox vaccine if you cannot afford it?

There is no Smallpox because we eradicated it through a forced vaccination program - we even closed a temple in India and forced everyone to get the job (the temple was an infection vector and people went in there to get infected).

Now there's no Smallpox, a disease so terrible that even the suggestion of its return would cause mass panic.

[Tuuvi]

oops double post