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  1. #1
    Member Member classical_hero's Avatar
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    Default Re: This is why I think Zionism in its current form is so dangerous

    What you are describing here is not Zionism.

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    Stranger in a strange land Moderator Hooahguy's Avatar
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    Default Re: This is why I think Zionism in its current form is so dangerous

    No, it isnt. It has been perverted into what you see today.
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    Amphibious Trebuchet Salesman Member Whacker's Avatar
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    Default Re: This is why I think Zionism in its current form is so dangerous

    And some things that should not have been forgotten.. were lost.


    Nationalism. Bigotry. Didn't we have this problem about, oh say ... 70 or 80 years ago? The irony in all this is just disgusting.

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    Member Member Hax's Avatar
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    Default Re: This is why I think Zionism in its current form is so dangerous

    I think the influence and position of the Charedim is only a part of the problem. What makes matters worse is the fact that Israeli wages cannot keep up with the costs of living in Israel, and if the rate with which the wages are growing remains stable, in a couple of years the economy will probably start to suffer badly. Furthermore, and this is where the Orthodox Jewish community ties into it all, is not only the fact that they have the tendency to breed like rabbits (the average Charedi family consists of roughly ten children) is that Charedi schools are free, which has led to non-Orthodox Jews into putting their children on Charedi schools, which will increase their numbers even more.

    Most of the people I met in Israel seemed to really dislike the Charedim. One shop-owner described them as maffia-esque; apparently if you open your shop on the Sabbath, they'll come and throw in the windows with bricks the following day.
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    Stranger in a strange land Moderator Hooahguy's Avatar
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    Default Re: This is why I think Zionism in its current form is so dangerous

    Quote Originally Posted by Hax View Post

    Most of the people I met in Israel seemed to really dislike the Charedim. One shop-owner described them as maffia-esque; apparently if you open your shop on the Sabbath, they'll come and throw in the windows with bricks the following day.
    Yup, thats pretty much everywhere except Tel Aviv and maybe a few other very secular places, but Tel Aviv seems to be a bastion of sanity.

    Where I stayed for 7 months (a subdivision of Bet Shemesh), the park was not allowed a playground because they were afraid that girls would play on it and be immodest. Thats on top of making them wear dark and heavy long sleeve shirts and long skirts in an area that often gets to over 35 degrees Celsius for most of the year.
    And did I mention that most homes in this area dont have air conditioning?

    Im not sure whats worse: the fact that they are so terrified of seven year old girls playing on a jungle gym or the fact that obviously a number of these Charedim are aroused by it.

    But yeah, everyone who isnt Charedi hates the Charedim.
    Last edited by Hooahguy; 08-21-2012 at 21:07.
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    Cat in a Trilby Hat Member Shokifer's Avatar
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    Default Re: This is why I think Zionism in its current form is so dangerous

    Seems like a lot of the governments in the middle east have been full of very silly people.

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    Member Member Greyblades's Avatar
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    Default Re: This is why I think Zionism in its current form is so dangerous

    Alot of governments everywhere have been full of very silly people.
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    Voluntary Suspension Voluntary Suspension Philippus Flavius Homovallumus's Avatar
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    Default Re: This is why I think Zionism in its current form is so dangerous

    Quote Originally Posted by Hooahguy View Post
    Yup, thats pretty much everywhere except Tel Aviv and maybe a few other very secular places, but Tel Aviv seems to be a bastion of sanity.

    Where I stayed for 7 months (a subdivision of Bet Shemesh), the park was not allowed a playground because they were afraid that girls would play on it and be immodest. Thats on top of making them wear dark and heavy long sleeve shirts and long skirts in an area that often gets to over 35 degrees Celsius for most of the year.
    And did I mention that most homes in this area dont have air conditioning?

    Im not sure whats worse: the fact that they are so terrified of seven year old girls playing on a jungle gym or the fact that obviously a number of these Charedim are aroused by it.

    But yeah, everyone who isnt Charedi hates the Charedim.
    Charedim are like any priestly cast in a theocracy (Israel is an ethno-theocracy, I'm afraid), they have to have oppressive rules people break to justify their existence.

    A priest is spiritual healer, when you have a surplus of priests they become quacks who diagnose spurious ailments constantly and aggressively so that they can "cure" them.

    This is the problem in Israel with the Charedim - but it is only part of the problem.

    The other part of the problem is that Israel should never have been created, as it displaced the Arabs already living there. A point to be recognised is that many anti-Semites supported an Israeli State as a way of getting Jews out of Europe. The long-term viability of such a State, and the fate of any Israeli or Arab people, were not issues they were concerned with.

    Of course, like all other peoples throughout history, they underestimated the strength of the Jewish identity.

    Modern day Jews are the only people in the Near East or Europe who still worship the same ancestral God they did 2,500-3,000 years ago.
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    Sovereign Oppressor Member TIE Fighter Shooter Champion, Turkey Shoot Champion, Juggler Champion Kralizec's Avatar
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    Default Re: This is why I think Zionism in its current form is so dangerous

    Quote Originally Posted by Philipvs Vallindervs Calicvla View Post
    Modern day Jews are the only people in the Near East or Europe who still worship the same ancestral God they did 2,500-3,000 years ago.
    There are still some Samaritans around. Almost extinct, though.

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    Senior Member Senior Member gaelic cowboy's Avatar
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    Default Re: This is why I think Zionism in its current form is so dangerous

    Quote Originally Posted by Philipvs Vallindervs Calicvla View Post
    Modern day Jews are the only people in the Near East or Europe who still worship the same ancestral God they did 2,500-3,000 years ago.
    Well using your own logic on permanance of belief I am sure Zoroastrians might have something to say about it.

    Also don't modern day Jews actually worship a different God to the Gods the Jews worshipped 3000 yrs ago, or at least they have forgotten that there praying to a God of war from a polytheistic faith.
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  11. #11

    Default Re: This is why I think Zionism in its current form is so dangerous

    Quote Originally Posted by Whacker View Post
    And some things that should not have been forgotten.. were lost.


    Nationalism. Bigotry. Didn't we have this problem about, oh say ... 70 or 80 years ago? The irony in all this is just disgusting.
    Perhaps the lesson learned from that conflict was that if one possesses or is soon to possess nukes, genocide and forced emigration is a-okay?

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