When Can We Start Breaking Things?

[Sarmatian]

You guys are forgetting one basic truth -

When an individual goes bust, a bank comes and takes his house, with full backing from the state's legal apparatus.

When a bank (or some other big business) goes bust, the state comes and takes money from individuals and gives it to them to keep them afloat, with the full backing from the state's legal apparatus.


Is it possible that I'm the only one noticing something's wrong here?

[SoFarSoGood]

What?

If I sell a 1000kg of corn as a future at $100 in 3 months. When 3 months comes along I the producer will get $100. Even if the new market price is $50, $200 or a million dollars a ton. I've locked in how much by selling on the future.

What is effected is the next cycle of investment.

More corn! Why? Because it pays more.

[Major Robert Dump]

You guys are forgetting one basic truth -

When an individual goes bust, a bank comes and takes his house, with full backing from the state's legal apparatus.

When a bank (or some other big business) goes bust, the state comes and takes money from individuals and gives it to them to keep them afloat, with the full backing from the state's legal apparatus.


Is it possible that I'm the only one noticing something's wrong here?

There is nothing wrong, because banks are the true creative class and without them we would be nothing. They should be afforded more broad allowances than the average Joe, and we cannot allow them to fail under any circumstances EVER because then who would I steal pens from, huh?

[gaelic cowboy]

DELETE

[gaelic cowboy]

More corn! Why? Because it pays more.

The futures price doesn't drive the market price it's the actually the market price that drives the futures price.

If grain goes mad dear this year then people will react accordingly with a futures prices that protects them against it going any higher.

[SoFarSoGood]

The futures price doesn't drive the market price it's the actually the market price that drives the futures price.

If grain goes mad dear this year then people will react accordingly with a futures prices that protects them against it going any higher.

What you say is partly true - prices are rising as there is/has been a drought in the US but the reverse is also true, the futures prices (just like normal shares or Government bonds) rise and fall on the amount of the demand from investors.

[Vladimir]

You guys are forgetting one basic truth -

When an individual goes bust, a bank comes and takes his house, with full backing from the state's legal apparatus.

When a bank (or some other big business) goes bust, the state comes and takes money from individuals and gives it to them to keep them afloat, with the full backing from the state's legal apparatus.


Is it possible that I'm the only one noticing something's wrong here?

Yes, you: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal...ce_Corporation

Also, if the collapse is big enough to threaten the well being of the state, the state will take measures to protect itself.

[gaelic cowboy]

What you say is partly true - prices are rising as there is/has been a drought in the US but the reverse is also true, the futures prices (just like normal shares or Government bonds) rise and fall on the amount of the demand from investors.

Indeed but this demand has an upper and lower level bound by the market price of the resource.

basically there is a point beyond which it makes no sense to hedge anymore, this can be driven because the potential price of the resource will eat your future profit.

That will generally mean you will try to price below tomorrows price(assuming market price growth) and will probably have to offer something above todays price.

However not everyone prices for profit sometime it's for access, for example a brewery needs barley so they offer a high price to encourage planting for a stable supply of quality barley. (although usually it's a straight contract for delivery at a set price)

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Its funny...

You have these free market values, which work well in your ideal vacuum. The peril to your vacuum is apparently automated labor.

If instead you valued basic freedoms and a relatively good standard of living for all, then automated labor would be pretty good. Who wouldn't want to live in a utopian society where all our needs are provided for by robots, and leisure becomes the most important persuit?

Oh my bad, I thought humans have an intrinsic value. I was under the impression that, you know, we have rights and such because we value human life in itself.

I guess you are right though, if you can't provide anything to the state of "worth" than why should we tolerate you living in our society? Or at all for that matter?



Such a brave statement.

PJ is speaking economically - his point is that if your Labour does not have economic value you cannot participate in the economy. For example, what is a ditch digger to do in a world full of mechanical diggers? He's out of work and on the dole.

Ergo if the demand for that future price goes up the price goes up. If I have agreed to pay $X per ton of wheat at Y date and the price goes up... the producer gets more.

No, he gets the same and you get a bigger profit margin.

Indeed but this demand has an upper and lower level bound by the market price of the resource.

basically there is a point beyond which it makes no sense to hedge anymore, this can be driven because the potential price of the resource will eat your future profit.

That will generally mean you will try to price below tomorrows price(assuming market price growth) and will probably have to offer something above todays price.

However not everyone prices for profit sometime it's for access, for example a brewery needs barley so they offer a high price to encourage planting for a stable supply of quality barley. (although usually it's a straight contract for delivery at a set price)

I don't think he really gets it.

SFSG - the Futures Market is a Market for contracts. The price going up and down on the market is not the price the farmer gets, it is the price the traders pay eachother to hold that contract until delivery. The trick of the Futures market is to buy a Future which was set at a middling price when everyone thinks that price has overshot, traders sell the Future at a loss and as a result you make a bigger profit than the person who originally held the Future when the price rises again.

[Sarmatian]

Yes, you: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal...ce_Corporation

Long article. Me lazy. Explain in few sentences.

Also, if the collapse is big enough to threaten the well being of the state, the state will take measures to protect itself.

Did you just turn communist on me here?

[Idaho]

Americans realising that once capitalism has chewed and swallowed everyone else, it will come for them.

And the Fragony, righter than the righter, feels comfortable because of the employment protection and social programmes of left-leaning Netherlands

I love it guys.

[Vladimir]

Long article. Me lazy. Explain in few sentences.


Did you just turn communist on me here?

Small bank fail, people get money back.

Large bank fall down go boom, make economy sad, state pick bank back up.

[Sarmatian]

Small bank fail, people get money back.

Large bank fall down go boom, make economy sad, state pick bank back up.

State covers savings up to a certain point, me get that, me knows that.

Does it cover home sweet home or only personal savings?

[Vladimir]

State covers savings up to a certain point, me get that, me knows that.

Does it cover home sweet home or only personal savings?

That's an excellent question and fortunately I don't have any experience with that.

What I know for sure is that "too big to fail" should not exist as it is a national security risk. But, if it does, it must not fail.

Edit: Why are we back to the bail out? So confused.

[Sarmatian]

That's an excellent question and fortunately I don't have any experience with that.

What I know for sure is that "too big to fail" should not exist as it is a national security risk. But, if it does, it must not fail.

Edit: Why are we back to the bail out? So confused.

Most states guarantee for personal savings up to a certain point, depending usually on the strength of the economy. Even in Serbia the state guarantees for personal savings up to measly 5000 euros.

Real estates and investments are not covered usually - which means that if you as individual make a bad investment, you lose everything, usually to the big business. If big business makes a bad investment it gets bailed out with your money.

I mentioned that as a response to PJ's "lower and middle class have only themselves to blame for why they aren't the upper class". It's not that simple and quite frankly, it shows that the system is biased.

[Vladimir]

I mentioned that as a response to PJ's "lower and middle class have only themselves to blame for why they aren't the upper class". It's not that simple and quite frankly, it shows that the system is biased.

Well, he's not entirely wrong. It is quite easy to become rich in this country; however, the pursuit of wealth may become an end in itself at the expense of everything else. It's all about choices.

[Idaho]

What a surprise. A society based on accumulating wealth ends up being a society that favours a self serving wealthy clique and disregarding those whose motives do not stem from avarice.

[Major Robert Dump]

Avarice? She is a great musician and the voice of our generation, but I am not sure what she has to do with the conversation

[Idaho]

She's going to bring about a new America through a series of cutting edge MTV stings.

[Vladimir]

What a surprise. A society based on accumulating wealth ends up being a society that favours a self serving wealthy clique and disregarding those whose motives do not stem from avarice.

Yes, and a society based on buggery and poor dental hygiene can rule the seas.

[Major Robert Dump]

Yes, and a society based on buggery and poor dental hygiene can rule the seas.

Pakistan does not really have so great a navy, bra

[SoFarSoGood]

I am certainly not in favour of 'cliques'/'large businesses interests' or semi- monopolies, whichever you chose to call the global business companies and hedge funds and all the rest. Any feeding an monopoly is NOT good for the market: The banks should have been allowed to go the wall after Lehmans and there should be no such thing as 'too big to go broke'. Real people and real growth is NOT 'corporate' but small businesses that put food on the average table. But all small businesses today are potential giants tomorrow who may be public companies and listed.

Ok stock holders at the initial launch pay the premium that carries the company forward for more investment etc (fb investors at the start) but if you and lots of others buy the shares the company value goes up. In the end this results in them have a greater total value and they can invest more.

It's no different essentially with futures on grain and rice. Long term the producers profit from a high price.

[Vladimir]

Pakistan does not really have so great a navy, bra

You say that but I'll laugh when Strike has to wear a hijab.

[Tellos Athenaios]

You say that but I'll laugh when Strike has to wear a hijab.

It'll be immensely funny, until you realise they're after you next. Your avatar will need to change: the outfit will have to go, you will down your last dikke pint, kiss your last ferme griet goodbye and finally have to settle for dried flowers...

[Papewaio]

Strike to take the green? I've heard rumours...

[Strike For The South]

Strike to take the green? I've heard rumours...

OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG

NO BACKSIES