Should drug possession result in a criminal record?

[Idaho]

We've had a few discussions on drugs over the years and while there are a range of views there does seem to be (from my reading) a general consensus that locking people up and ruining their job prospects for possession is pointless. I really wanted to confirm this with a poll.

This isn't a wider question of legislation or decriminalisation. I just want to pin the issue down at a personal level.

The situation is this:

Your friend has been caught with a personal quantity of drugs. Should he/ she risk a prison sentence or have his/ her job prospects damaged?

[Lemur]

Against the criminalization of drugs away, so my position should come as no surprise.

When I was managing a staff of 30 people, two of my best were potheads. I was not willing to lose them because of (a) stupid regulations, and (b) the length of time THC remains detectable in urine. So I peed in bottles for these two guys several times while I was a supervisor. (I am Mr. Clean when it comes to drugs, which has no bearing on whether or not I think they should be decriminalized.)

I have never met a violent pothead. I have known many violent drunks. The illogic and waste of the drug war never ceases to amaze me.

[Kadagar_AV]

As you phrase the question as the friend having been "caught", one must assume he/she has done something illegal.

I don't believe in victimless crimes.

[Lemur]

I don't believe in victimless crimes.

Why on earth not? Are you saying that everything illegal must therefore have a victim? Or what?

[Kadagar_AV]

Why on earth not? Are you saying that everything illegal must therefore have a victim? Or what?

Why else would it be a problem for someone else?

Me smoking weed at home playing TW - not a crime.
Me smoking weed out on town, trying to stab people in the eye with a hamburger - possibly a crime.

[Kralizec]

I don't claim to be an expert on every drug in existence. Cannabis is fine, but I'm not sure about other drugs. Even then though I'd only approve confiscation & fine as measures to discourage it. Prison time and a criminal record for possesing any drugs for personal use are way overboard in my opinion.

Me smoking weed at home playing TW - not a crime.

Possession is a crime in most jurisdictions, regardless of where you intend to use it.

(I don't think that the actual ingestion of drugs is illegal anywhere, but I could be wrong)

[Fragony]

Not for small quantities. If you have a little it certainly wouldn't get you into trouble here

[Idaho]

Why else would it be a problem for someone else?

Me smoking weed at home playing TW - not a crime.
Me smoking weed out on town, trying to stab people in the eye with a hamburger - possibly a crime.

You are at home doing just that. There is a knock at the door. You stub out, pause tw and get the door. At the door is a policeman asking about a missing dog in the neighborhood. Sniff, sniff... whats that? Probable cause. You're nicked.

[Kadagar_AV]

You are at home doing just that. There is a knock at the door. You stub out, pause tw and get the door. At the door is a policeman asking about a missing dog in the neighborhood. Sniff, sniff... whats that? Probable cause. You're nicked.

I wasn't arguing against that being the case... It just, you know, shouldnt be :)

[Fragony]

You are at home doing just that. There is a knock at the door. You stub out, pause tw and get the door. At the door is a policeman asking about a missing dog in the neighborhood. Sniff, sniff... whats that? Probable cause. You're nicked.

You actually have to allow them entrance if they think they smell something?

[Kadagar_AV]

You actually have to allow them entrance if they think they smell something?

In Sweden yes. Can't talk for other countries.

[Fragony]

In Sweden yes. Can't talk for other countries.

They certainly aren't allowed to do that over here unless they hear someone screaming or something like that, there is public and private space, in your home you can pretty much do what you want even if it isn't strictly legal what you are doing

[Kadagar_AV]

They certainly aren't allowed to do that over here unless they hear someone screaming or something like that, there is public and private space, in your home you can pretty much do what you want even if it isn't strictly legal what you are doing

In Sweden, the police is allowed to do a lot, like to enter your home, if they have reason to believe a crime is being committed that can result in jail. All drug crimes have been bumped up to jail status for this reason.

So while in effect no one ever gets sent to jail for having 1g of weed, the police has the same rights as if you had opened the door holding a bloody knife while you hear screams of agony from within.

[Fragony]

In Sweden, the police is allowed to do a lot, like to enter your home, if they have reason to believe a crime is being committed that can result in jail. All drug crimes have been bumped up to jail status for this reason.

So while in effect no one ever gets sent to jail for having 1g of weed, the police has the same rights as if you had opened the door holding a bloody knife while you hear screams of agony from within.

I expect Sweden to be just as pragmatic as the Netherlands with this, doubt it is any different here when it comes to what they can do. Police will never just enter your home unless they have a very good reason, but never for a bit of drugs. But Idaho's England has always been a bit creepy when it comes to certain things, it's a consintantly borderline semi-fascist state.

[Kadagar_AV]

I expect Sweden to be just as pragmatic as the Netherlands with this, doubt it is any different here when it comes to what they can do. Police will never just enter your home unless they have a very good reason, but never for a bit of drugs. But Idaho's England has always been a bit creepy when it comes to certain things, it's a consintantly borderline semi-fascist state.

On the contrary.

Swedish police has changed their priorities. They are no longer just hunting the dealers, they are actively hunting the users.

Cops have made razzias not expecting to find more than a few grams of, say, cocaine or weed.

Ludicrous, of course.

I sincerely hope that no police thinks about storming my home looking for drugs. It would most likely end up with at least one severely hurt or killed cop, and me dead or in jail for life.

[Fragony]

Swedish government is the worst evil stepmom ever

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

You are at home doing just that. There is a knock at the door. You stub out, pause tw and get the door. At the door is a policeman asking about a missing dog in the neighborhood. Sniff, sniff... whats that? Probable cause. You're nicked.

They need a warrant to search your property - you don't have to let them in. They could nick you, take you in for questioning, go to a judge for a warrant so they can go to your house and bag the spliff but you and I know they won't.

In answer to the question - if one of my friends has been caught it's because they've been smoking dope on the street, otherwise they wouldn't have been caught. I do happen to believe that should be a crime.

[Kadagar_AV]

They need a warrant to search your property - you don't have to let them in. They could nick you, take you in for questioning, go to a judge for a warrant so they can go to your house and bag the spliff but you and I know they won't.

In answer to the question - if one of my friends has been caught it's because they've been smoking dope on the street, otherwise they wouldn't have been caught. I do happen to believe that should be a crime.

How about being drunk on the street?

Or being tired on the street?


Why does it matter to you? If the person is acting in a way that is having a negative effect on you, you can use the normal means to deal with that. But what is the harm of, say, me walking down the street with a joint?

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

How about being drunk on the street?

Or being tired on the street?


Why does it matter to you? If the person is acting in a way that is having a negative effect on you, you can use the normal means to deal with that. But what is the harm of, say, me walking down the street with a joint?

If you're smoking dope in the street other people have to breathe that in, that's assault.

That's why I class it as being different to drink - I don't think you should be allowed to smoke in the straight at all, actually.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Oh please, do you know how crazy that sounds?

It's Common Law Assault in the UK - it's not silly at all, chewing a really strong mint and blowing in someone's face is assault, subjecting someone to a hallucinogenic depressant against their will is also assault. What you do in your own home is your business, but I should never have to be subjected to it and you can smell Pot 50 feet away, it stinks to high heaven. If I can smell it, it's going in my lungs.

[Montmorency]

By that is how they've abolished public cigarette smoking, then?

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

By that is how they've abolished public cigarette smoking, then?

Yes, that is why​. People who don't smoke shouldn't be subjected to cigarette smoke.

[Kadagar_AV]

The passive effect of marijuana is small enough to brush of brush away any argument of that being the reason.

PVC, if you want to ban any kind of smoking on the streets I can understand your point. I don't necessarily agree, but it is a fair point with logical reasons that I can accept.

But if you want to ban weed smoking, but not tobacco smoking... I just don't see the point?

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Blowing weed smoke in someone's face won't get them high unless they inhale deeply and hold it for a few seconds, on purpose. And, of course, if you're just near some weed smoke then you have absolutely nothing to worry about at all, ever.

Rude, sure, but not assault. If the law says that's assault, then the law is absurd.

We've already covered how you don't have to breathe deeply and hold it in to get High - even so it is assault, and rightly so. Assault is subjecting someone to unwanted interference with their person, which includes forcing them to inhale something as well as poking them or screaming at them.

[Kadagar_AV]

We've already covered how you don't have to breathe deeply and hold it in to get High - even so it is assault, and rightly so. Assault is subjecting someone to unwanted interference with their person, which includes forcing them to inhale something as well as poking them or screaming at them.

That's true... But that is not saying that passive smoking would be enough to get you high.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

The passive effect of marijuana is small enough to brush of brush away any argument of that being the reason.

PVC, if you want to ban any kind of smoking on the streets I can understand your point. I don't necessarily agree, but it is a fair point with logical reasons that I can accept.

But if you want to ban weed smoking, but not tobacco smoking... I just don't see the point?

No, I want to ban both - as a non smoker I can pick up on either very quickly, it used to make my hackles rise when I was sitting in my dorm room and suddenly you start to get this whiff under the door. If you don't want to be subjected to the gradually increasing smell over the next few hours all you can do is go out, and shut the closet, windows and door to prevent the smell sticking to your clothes.

It's horrible.

It's also important to point out that even a small passive affect, even being subjected to the smell, in a public place is really not fair for people who do not partake - and the majority of people who do not partake today do so actively, i.e. they want to not be around smokers and smoking.

[Kralizec]

Is 60% enough for a filibuster proof majority? I forgot.

It's Common Law Assault in the UK - it's not silly at all, chewing a really strong mint and blowing in someone's face is assault, subjecting someone to a hallucinogenic depressant against their will is also assault. What you do in your own home is your business, but I should never have to be subjected to it and you can smell Pot 50 feet away, it stinks to high heaven. If I can smell it, it's going in my lungs.

Seriously? Wtf

[Idaho]

I think we are getting sidetracked onto passive smoking and the law regarding respecting peoples space etc.

For the record, regarding uk law: if you are arrested in or near a property, police have the right to search that property. There are also numerous other reasons they can search. If you are arrested for drugs it is routine for them to get a warrant to search your house. Easy pickings for them.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

By that logic we should ban incense, or be able to call the cops on your dorm neighbor when he cooks something that smells atrocious.

Offensive smells surround you every day, that's not a basis for assault.

*I just want to point out how much of a 1st world problem this is. Your 'public space' is not some sanctuary that will be ever-clean and fresh-smelling. Your public space is full of nasty people, nasty cars, nasty landfills, nasty factories and nasty pollution. Some guy trying to enjoy a smoke is the least of your prissy worries.

In this case we are not talking just about a smell - we are also talking about a chemical intoxicant, irrc, it's illegal to use strong solvents in a poorly ventilated public place because it's a health hazard - smoking is also a health hazard, which you share with other people who don't smoke.

Incense is an interesting one, actually, that stuff is also pretty toxic.

Think about this, compare to restrictions on noise pollution.

Seriously? Wtf

Like I said, screaming at someone is assault too - you'd be unlikely to be prosecuted, but if you were you could be convicted and fined.

[Kadagar_AV]

In this case we are not talking just about a smell - we are also talking about a chemical intoxicant, irrc, it's illegal to use strong solvents in a poorly ventilated public place because it's a health hazard - smoking is also a health hazard, which you share with other people who don't smoke.

Incense is an interesting one, actually, that stuff is also pretty toxic.

Think about this, compare to restrictions on noise pollution.



Like I said, screaming at someone is assault too - you'd be unlikely to be prosecuted, but if you were you could be convicted and fined.

Weed aint no chemical bro