Yes, if you disagree with me you are a holy crusader! If I disagree with you I am a troll. You should work for MSNBCOriginally Posted by Vladimir
Re: 15 days in the Philippines, or, how to blow 10k in 2 weeks
Yes, if you disagree with me you are a holy crusader! If I disagree with you I am a troll. You should work for MSNBC
Hammer, anvil, forge and fire, chase away The Hoofed Liar. Roof and doorway, block and beam, chase The Trickster from our dreams.Vigilance is our shield, that protects us from our squalid past. Knowledge is our weapon, with which we carve a path to an enlightened future.
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Re: 15 days in the Philippines, or, how to blow 10k in 2 weeks
Trophy wives have just as much choice as these sex trade workers, Vuk. Anyway, they are primarily dancers, waitresses, and bar-maid types - why do you assume they are desperate? Do you dispute MRD's assertion on Philippine attitudes to sex? Do you counterclaim that sex for money is considered a dirty and shameful last resort in the Philippines? Are you basing this off The Scarlet Letter or something like that?
You will have to do better if you wish to convince the Major's devoted readers that your calls of "unethical" behavior aren't just bizarre.
That's funny stuff. But yes, treating someone "well" is technically the equivalent of not treating someone as badly as others.Saying that other people treat them worse than you do does not make you a hero, nor does it absolve you of guilt for participating in the industry.
Vitiate Man.
History repeats the old conceits
The glib replies, the same defeats
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
Re: 15 days in the Philippines, or, how to blow 10k in 2 weeks
This thread is split from the original to keep the other one on-topic. Feel free to discuss the objections to the sex trade in here.
Also, calm the personal attacks.
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Re: 15 days in the Philippines, or, how to blow 10k in 2 weeks
I'm still interested in why Centurion1 think a guy who have had multiple sexual partners would be less allowed to be heard in matters of prostitution or how to treat a woman?
So Centurion1, how many girls can a guy have sex with in your opinion, and still be allowed to talk about prostitution?
Same goes for how to treat a woman, how many girls can I have done before not having a say in how to treat women?
I find your attacks absolutely ridiculous, to be honest. But go ahed and defend them, I am listening...
Re: 15 days in the Philippines, or, how to blow 10k in 2 weeks
You are more than welcome too if I said you couldn't I wouldn't involve myself in this discussion either. There is nothing wrong with having multiple sexual partners I would encourage it. My point being that based on your comments in the past you aren't exactly speaking from the high ground in terms of treating women like your sisters or mother. That's all your views on prostitution are no less legitimate than anyone else. Personally I don't like prostitution will never engage in it and find it distasteful. However, I also recognize the beast that is the Philippines. What seems to be of issue here is that so few of you have any idea what the Philippines are actually like. I would suggest that before you attack MRD for what he did you find out what PI is really like.
SighSimple things for simple minds. Some people are easily amused. And I never said you should treat women like your sisters and daughter, I said you should treat them how you would want a stranger to treat you female family members. I guess when your daddy is an Admiral, it is not that important to learn how to read.
First of all my father was not an admiral. Do you have any idea what it is like to be from a military family? You don't. To have your father gone for 6 months at a time, to live in absolute nightmares like PI or Bahrain or worse and then to top it all off having to worry about them dying. But naw entitled old me hasn't had to worry about anything ever in my life. Have some damned respect. You can attack me but don't use my veteran father to do it,
Last edited by Beskar; 09-06-2012 at 08:14.
Re: 15 days in the Philippines, or, how to blow 10k in 2 weeks
This is not ending well...
Being better than the worst does not inherently make you good. But being better than the rest lets you brag.
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
Re: 15 days in the Philippines, or, how to blow 10k in 2 weeks
I don't think MRD feels attacked by me...
I acknowledge that there IS major moral issues in this whole thing, with that said, I do not believe MRD is doing anything wrong. I do however accuse him of being very much HUMAN, but from what I have read he is upholding a personal moral codex in a sick world. And for that I salute him.
I guess I have a easy time accepting it, as I can recognize myself in it.
Throughout my years I have done my out most to treat girls in a nice and fair way. Bear in mind that I for YEARS have operated in a small town as a foreigner in a rather nationalistic country. Had I been a pig towards girls, I would have been shoo'ed away long since. As it is though, people respect me for who I am around there.
This said, I have upheld a different set of moral than you might be used to. As an example, if a married woman has approached me, I might well have taken her home.
I am sure you say: "But what about her kids, family, everything you home wrecker!"
To that I answer: "I have no idea".
She might also be mentally and physically abused by a drunk, desperately trying to hold it together for some reason but seeking a release. I'm not saying she is, I am saying I don't know, and don't care. If someone want to sleep with me, and I want to sleep with them, I will simply treat them as nicely and fairly as I possibly can.
So I recognize myself in MRDs thinking... Spending the same money in the same place he COULD well donkey punch women while giving midgets golden showers, but that's not exactly what he is doing, now is it? So why don't we cut him some slack, and give some kudos for the positive things as well?
Last edited by Kadagar_AV; 09-05-2012 at 23:44. Reason: TL;DR is now underlined...
Re: 15 days in the Philippines, or, how to blow 10k in 2 weeks
You said "release"
How many scrabble points is that worth?
Baby Quit Your Cryin' Put Your Clown Britches On!!!
Re: 15 days in the Philippines, or, how to blow 10k in 2 weeks
And thats what I'm going at. I don't find you morally reprehensible for sleeping with attached girls, I've done it myself (though not married) my point is merely to illustrate the fact that so much of this is absolutely subjective and that depending on your location completely different. So rather than attacking MRD for what he did (not saying you did) we should rather look at the act of sexual favors for money without any sort of personal veil. The backroom isn't for bashing each other or personally based arguments.
tl;dr this isn't a thread about MRD or any of us this is a thread about sex trading. So let's stick to it.
Re: 15 days in the Philippines, or, how to blow 10k in 2 weeks
Dear Vuk,
Women in the Philippines legally, who are working at legal establishments, do have full legal protections, whereas I, the Gringo from America, have none. In fact, in the event of a dispute over things such as bills at bars, payments to bar girls, and taxi disputes, the foreigner is always wrong and will always end up paying, extorted or in jail. Yet time and time again you refuse to accept that I was in a legal business, and seem to think that I was in a thatch brothel in an alley in Cambodia. What, exactly is the malfunction?
Furthermore, Dearest Boy, the underlined section is utterly fail: So, because of what I do, she has no choice in her line of work? I think you may have a misunderstanding of how economics works. If there was no club for her to work in, would a Wal Mart magically appear for her to work at? Likewise, if I burn down a wal mart, will a Go Go Club appear?
If this is how she puts food on the table, then it is certainly a good thing that she is getting customers. And what a better customer than a nice guy like me?
Dear Vuk,
That is not the attitude I am taking, but rather I am pointing out that I am paying them above average, which is actually part of a larger theme in the overall story, not because I am a hero, but because I am amazed at how appalling others actions can be, and because I am a nice guy. The fact that I chose to sometimes do this in conjunction with paying for a date seems to be your biggest issue, and I will again reiterate that not only were they there voluntarily, they had a good time.
I am not understanding where you are getting this hero thing. In fact, in various other Org threads, I consistently point out -- brag in fact -- that I ALWAYS tip, and I tip well, and if I cannot afford a tip then I do not buy said service a tip is associated with.
This leaves me no choice but to conclude that you are not a tipper, and you are upset by people who choose to throw a little green. You do not tip the pizza delivery man and likely say something like "Sorry man, I'll get you next time" while shrugging your shoulders. Or perhaps you justify not tipping your waitress because the steak, which she did not cook, was too salty. Or perhaps you are the guy who sits in the front row of the strip club and never tips the dancer. Or perhaps you have done all three.
I appreciate that you think so highly of my tipping and being nice as to be rabidly envious, but please, save your subtle, repressed praise, as I certainly do not deserve it. I am just a nice guy, and I would tip you even, despite my pizza having a piece missing.
Dear Vuk,
Regarding the above paragraph, where you basically say that someone with money and education and mobility will always get the girl, let me start by welcoming you to the Real World. Please enjoy your stay.
First, me being American has far less to do with your percieved crime than me having money. Japanese, Russian, Arab. It's more the money than the nationaility, in terms of taking these ladies out.
The American part comes into play in regards to their personal opinions and attitudes towards me. I do not understand why it is so difficult to believe that some of these women can like me?
Perhaps you are not aware of this, but in the regualted, legal bars, women can turn down potential suitors. Many will not go with Koreans. Many will not go with Black men. Many will not go with Arabs. There are bars where I will be ignored. Again, you are showing how misinformed that you are.
Oh, Dear Vukky, I like how you went from saying that the women there would spit on me if I didn't have money, to saying that they would ignore me if I were just another local guy. Way to backpeddle, bro.
And actually, Vuk, if they would ignore me if I were a local guy, than I am curious why the country is so overpopulated? Why do you hate Filipino men so much? IS YOU RACIST?
Dear Vuk,
You have a very broad definition of exploit. Apparently, because someone is being exploited somewhere, then the woman who is having a great time with MRD and making lots of money doing it is being exploited, too. Apparently, a woman picking me up in the mall, telling me she is not interested in a boyfriend, and then coming back 2 more times, is being exploited. Apparently, discreetly offering 3 waitresses money to come by my hotel room (which means no manager was forcing them, because he didn't know), and then said waitresses stopping by to party, well, that is exploitation because somewhere someone is being exploited. Lovely reasoning.
Dear Vuk,
Please see previous post. Please also refer to photos of women dancing, laughing, having a good time, and re-appearing at my abode over and over and over on different days because, apparently, they crave to be exploited.
Knowing you, you will choose to believe that I held them hostage and made them change clothes as part of a left wing conspiracy to legalize prostitution and destroy the American family so the gays can take over. For that, I applaud you in advance.
Dear Vuk,
What this boils down to is a fundamental difference in the definition of "exploit," and the long term effects of the activities of "people like me."
What will really blow your mind will be the instances where the women got mad when I did not play Scrabble with them after date. Maybe, this was because they thought they would make less money. Or maybe, they were wanting to try to talk me into a baby. Or maybe, they just knew that I had a couple of BIG WORDS that would score well and make the game more fun for all
Dear Vuk,
You have no tangible proof that the majority of the girls in these bars are miserable, abused, treated poorly by customers, etc.
I happen to know they are treated poorly because I hear and read stories, both from men and the girls, but this is not the majority. Most men who experience these things do not post or talk about it (because of judgement by people like you). Just because there are stories online of jerks doing jerk things does not make it the majority, those people are the sociopaths
The leap that I am encouraging others to join the industry or be forced into it is absurd, even by your own standards. Even without me overtipping and being nice, the number of women seeking these jobs is overwhelming.
How do we improve the PI as a whole? Whoa, a question? You want to have a discusion now?
Well, for starters, prostitution should remain legal, like it is in much of the world. And the government should try out secularlism for a change, so they stop over producing babies and stifling sex educations.
As you may or may not know, the parliament that threw out the US bases were themselves thrown out because of the tens of thousands of jobs that were lost, and all that money moved to Guam and Okinawa. The Country had virtually no valid plan to fill this vacuum of joblessness.
Meanwhile, our lovely government officials in the State Department and USAID and the USDA taught the PI government how to run a capitalist democracy just like we run ours (piss poorly), except throw in a few pinches of Open Sexuality-Cahtolicism identity crises and a dash of Pacific Islander Tribal Grift, and you get what they have today, which the good ole USA should have seen coming from a mile away because we had been seeing it firsthand for several generations.
The PI cannot feed itself and imports almost all of its food. It's #1 resource is educated, middle class, english speaking man power and much of them GTFO and go elsewhere to work. Unfortunately, because of stupid US immigration laws, many of them go to middle eastern and north african countries to work or be held captive for rich lazy people, and they learn zero marketable job skills.
The PI, in a truly ironic twist, made the Pay-For-Web-Show industry illegal, complete with harsh sentences for people who run them (a couple Swedes got 40 years). Yet, 1000s of women still work on these websites, and make far less money doing it because it is underground.
I have now talked to you like an adult for several paragraphs now, and it is tiring me, so
Dear Vuk
#1:
Bar Girls in the PI make more in one week than they would in a "normal job" in 3 months, to include working as nurses, the majority of which comes from lady drinks commissions and salaries, and there is typically a waiting list of future employees. Most women work in this job for 2-3 years. They can turn down customers.
#2:
Bar Girls in the PI who get western sponsors (i.e. quit being a bar girl and I will send you $$); they rarely ever quit their bar job (so much for forcing and desperation and last resort; they see having a sponsor as a status symbol in addition to an ATM (Irish, from day 5, has multiple sponsors, and brags of this to her work mates); meeting western men who have money is a recruiting selling point, and a very large number of the employees are related, i.e. sister recruitng sister etc ...... and I know this because, get ready (drum roll)
#3:
I am a Private Investigator in the civilian sector, which also happens to be why I deal with and record police officers (not while trolling teenage girls, as you wish to believe), and plan on expanding my business into Asia to check on "fiancees" being sponsored, cheating spouses on "business" trips, and absentee business arrangements, because the Filipino private investigators cannot be trusted. Those investigators cannot be trusted because they will alert their mark for surveillance, and then they will extort money from the unfaithful fiancee or the cheating married man or thieving restaurant manager, and send back a clean bill of activity. Often, rather than give money, the fiancees offer sex.
#4:
The market for these sorts of checks from a dependable source is enormous, because of the huge amount of fraud and grift going on, which is a cultural institution in the Philippines, from the taxi driver up to the parliament. It is not uncommon for a western man chatting with his Filipino "fiancee" to discover that the time her webcam was "not working" that he was actually chatting with her brother, or mother, or husband. When meeting the family, it is not uncommon for the brother or cousin to actually be the husband. This is Filipino grift that goes into the tens of millions each year from blokes all across the world, but the grift does not only go one way. Plenty of men never make the trip to the PI and string girls along. Plenty of men use these girls for webcam sex with false promises, and in return, they get false promises.
Do you see a theme here, with the sex as quid pro quo thing? Do you see a theme here, with everyone on the take? Do you see a theme here, where people are actively and willingly participating. Why is it so hard for you to believe that people do this willingly in sanctioned establishment and some in fact like it, because they have a lower average GDP?
I am not going to feel guilty for doing something perfectly legal because some where, some place, there may be someone involved in the industry who has drawn the short straw, particulalry since I treated these ladies well, they had a good time and I made some new friends in the process. There are people working these jobs because they are desperate, just as there are people working these jobs because they can make obscene amounts of money in a relatively short time, or because they see an opportunity to work some scams and some angles. If you walk into any strip club in the states, you will find virtually the same set of stories, some of them true, some of them untrue. The same can be said for someone who wipes butts in a nursing home.
I will, however, concede that in the Philippines there still exists a certain level of romanticism with meeting Mr Right that is noticebaly void in American clubs (cant speak for other countries), where very few American strippers are going to work thinking they will meet their dream guy. This attitude varies from girl to girl, and time in the job. And sometimes, they do meet Mr Right, and they do get married, with mixed results.
Baby Quit Your Cryin' Put Your Clown Britches On!!!
Re: 15 days in the Philippines, or, how to blow 10k in 2 weeks
I really think you guys are misreading what Kadgar was saying or how he was saying it. This has happened in the past.
Sometimes what he writes is taken the wrong way because he uses Windows auto-dictate which is messed up by his throat cancer voice box and his Cuban accent. Cut him a break.
Everyone chill out
And book a ticket to the Philippines
Baby Quit Your Cryin' Put Your Clown Britches On!!!
Re: 15 days in the Philippines, or, how to blow 10k in 2 weeks
The korean bit's oddly specific, do they have a bad reputation in PI?Perhaps you are not aware of this, but in the regualted, legal bars, women can turn down potential suitors. Many will not go with Koreans. Many will not go with Black men. Many will not go with Arabs. There are bars where I will be ignored. Again, you are showing how misinformed that you are.
Being better than the worst does not inherently make you good. But being better than the rest lets you brag.
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
Re: 15 days in the Philippines, or, how to blow 10k in 2 weeks
Korean men don't even do well in Korea. Which is why my buddies and I are going to Japan, Singapore and Korea this winter. It's the culmination of everything I have ever feverishly dreamed of in a yellow haze.
Last edited by Centurion1; 09-05-2012 at 23:52. Reason: i is bad at english
Re: 15 days in the Philippines, or, how to blow 10k in 2 weeks
BTW, I never knew I was so dear to you. :) Do I get a hug?
I never said you were throwing them to ground and forcibly raping them, so I don't know where you got that idea. Maybe you honestly do think that there is nothing unethical about your behavior. I guess I'll just have to take your word on that. I do, though, disagree with you, and let's leave it at that.
Hammer, anvil, forge and fire, chase away The Hoofed Liar. Roof and doorway, block and beam, chase The Trickster from our dreams.Vigilance is our shield, that protects us from our squalid past. Knowledge is our weapon, with which we carve a path to an enlightened future.
Everything you need to know about Kadagar_AV:
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