Objections to the Sex Trade

[SwordsMaster]

Sure but it would be rude behaviour

What is? Having sex with women?

[Fragony]

What is? Having sex with women?

I wouldn't call that really rude, just moderatily brutal

[SwordsMaster]

I wouldn't call that really rude, just moderatily brutal

Hmm... Don't know, Frag, maybe you're doing it wrong...

[Major Robert Dump]

Geez. U guys talk like I was giving donkey punches and golden showers.

Go visit a wbsite like pattaya addicts, and see how a lot of these guys treat the girls. A lot of them get offended if the girls ask to be fed, or ask to spend the night, or eat a candy from the fridge. They haggle off twenty dollars. There is one guy with an apartment with bad plumbing, who will blame a girl for a clogged toilet and then only pay her half while faking he will have to pay for repairs. This guy brags about this.

I witnessed men walking around talking to the locals like they were scum for asking for a tip when in fact they should not have to ask.

I made it a point not to be "that guy"

I would think my photos of smiling girls in clean digs gorging of food would indicate that people other than myself had a good time. God forbid they get a customer/date who doesn't treat them like dirt

[Vuk]

You are staunchly anti porn and anti prostitution, and you do not approve of sex without love. You make that very clear both here and in the past.
I did? I did not say porn should be illegal, I said selling porn should be. There will be plenty of porn without a porn industry. Also, while it is my personal conviction that having sex without love is not smart, I never said I think it makes people evil or that they should not be allowed to do it. My argument to you was not about sex, but abuse, so I fail to see how that has anything to do with anything.

I, on the other hand, see no difference in spending time and money courting a woman to get into her pants, or simply cutting to the chase and paying for what I want if she is willing.

If you don't see the difference between taking a woman in the US out to dinner so you can seduce her, when she has full legal protections and is not financially dependent on you, and paying a woman who for all you know has no choice in her line of work (thanks to what you and people like you do) to sexually pleasure you so she can put food on the table, then you are really blinding yourself.

The idea of these women being trapped in a prison of human trafficking is greatly exaggerated, and virtually non existent, in the business districts of the cities of the PI. It happens to be government regulated. I was not in Burma. I was not in Ecuador. There were no chaved orangutans. Does it happen in the PI? Of course it does, and I did not go to those places.

This may be the only job some of these women can find. I very well understand that. And you may think I am only making this worse by participating. Not only do I disagree with you, but you cannot prove this in any tangible way other than pulling at the heartstrings. In fact, I am making it better for them by being the best customer I can be in the event I decide to make the purchase. Talk all you want about being part of the problem or part of the solution. That's real big talk, and it doesn't work.
Me pulling at heartstrings? "I am giving these women more money than they have seen in their lives because I am such a nice little pervert!"
Me pulling at heartstrings? lol


I got propositioned EVERYWHERE, and by women who were not girls working in the trade. Of course, you would know this if you bothered to read. I got propositioned in the mall. I got propositioned at the car lot. I got propositioned by girls working in coffee shops and girls leaving nursing schools. The poorer the area you go to, the more the propositions come. And these were by women, I am not even talking about all the shady guys who come up and make me offers.
So what? Do you want a pat on the back?
And, you subtley call me a pedophile, which you have yet to apologize for.
No offense man, but you have said a lot of pretty shitty things about me on this forum and never offered up an apology. Yeah, I insinuated you were a pedo because you disgusted me. No, I don't think you probably really are, but the whole "I have dealt with this before." thing doesn't do you any favors.

And, you suggest that I have nothing to offer these women other than money and have no game, when in fact the second half of my tris was nothing but innocent dating of random girls I met here and there. And before you say they are using me as a green card, be advised that I was not born yesterday, and compared to most Filipino men, Al Bundy would be a good catch because he at least goes to work and doesn't beat them.
No, that is not what I suggest. I don't care how handsome you are/think you are, or how well endowed you are/think you are. The point is that if you were not an American they thought they could get something monetary out of, and you were of their social class and lived there, you would not be getting a 1/100 as lucky as you were. And justifying it by saying that other people are worse to them than you is not exactly that great of a justification.
It is abundently clear that you are skimming over what I write. On one hand, you accuse me of playing hero. Then you tell me I could just give the girls money and move on. When say I have done this, you sarcastically say I am playing hero again. Obviously, nothing I do is right.
No, I actually had read all of your posts in full before responding. I did not ridicule you for playing hero. I ridiculed you for taking advantage of people and thinking you were a hero. If you wanted to just help people and think you were a hero, I would have no problem with that. The thing is though that you go over there and sleep with a bunch of desperate women (as you yourself just admitted above) who are sleeping with you for money, and then think yourself a hero.

I have made it clear several times that I plan on pursuing commercial ventures in the pacific, and that I am also trying to make friends, but you apparently didn't catch that. I also recall mentioning that I am still in contact with most of those girls. I say *most* because the ones who I do not talk to have not returned emails or phone calls. We use facebook, skype, email, yahoo and I have an international calling plan and I talk to several per week. I have continued to send gifts for birthdays and plan on sending christmas presents.
I did catch that, but it is irrelevant. It is good that you are staying in contact with them, but that still doesn't mean that what you did was right.
We obviously are not going to agree on this. If you want to continue to troll me and insult me, go right ahead, and understand I will return the favor in full. Or you can just go away, which I am sure everyone would appreciate.
I am not trolling you man, I am completely serious. I'll be polite to you if you be polite to me.
**And I impregnated no one
**And I do not have a daughter and I hate my sister
**And were I a woman, or if I was a muscle head, I would be stripper or a hooker, so you are arguing against something that I would engage in myself given the poortunity. When I was 19 I slept with a 45 year old once to get a summer job, does that count?

Whatever you say.

I am not arguing this one way or the other, because both cases are true. Some would and some wouldn't. As it stands I am in contact with several who would disagree with you. One girl I went on a date with happens to be studying criminal justice and law and can help me with some legal issues I will encounter, so I will probably pay her to consult me. One keeps proposing to me and I keep telling her to cool it. One harasses the others of FB and says I am hers.

Now, if by "be with" we are talking about them using me for money and a green card, then yeah, and the sky is also blue. And so what. People marry for money all the time. If I am the one getting the hot wife half my age who can give me healthy children, believe me, I am not the sucker. The suckers are my friends in unhappy marriages with women who look like Bea Aurthur.

Four nights ago, I picked up a 22 year old in my hotel bar and didn't pay her a cent. In fact, I was on FB shortly after bragging to one of my Org friends about it, amazed that is was free sans a few drinks. Would be great if he would chime in here. So please, all this talk of me "not having it" is comical. I've got it, I just usually don't feel like using it. I am sure there are uglier people than me in the world



The idea that the Filipino women would be appalled by me is laughable if you consider not only some of the western blokes they marry, but also the slim pickins of quality Filipino men. Throw in the fact that many of them blindly worship our culture and it is a no-brainer.

Did we miss the part where I picked girls up outside of the bars? Did we miss the part where they initiated it? Did we miss the part where they left work early and sought me out? Did we miss the part about the behaviors I saw/heard of regarding other visitors and how a modicum of respect goes a long way?

I am not sure why I am defending myself, as it makes it look like I am seeking validation. Were I seeking that, I could have just posted photos with no stories and lied and said I picked all those girls up in a disco. I am trying to be honest.

** Actually, I know why I am responding. It's because I am trying to finish the other chapters and am sitting at the computer, so I see every time someone says something

I don't give a shite if you 'have it' or not. I was never arguing about whether you were hot or not, because frankly, I could not give a damn. Stop being so insecure man. Whether you are hot or not, that still has no effect on you exploiting people in the sex tourism industry.

You have to be kidding me.

Of course there is a sex trade here, it is a fraction of the tourist income. It is practically sanctioned by the government. And I hear you are allowed to gamble in Las Vegas, as well.

Of course there are women here are looking to be swept off their feet and whisked away to paradise.

Believe me, frags, I understand the country very well.

I'm not going to go easy on him

He called me a pedophile You have hardly been kind to me in other threads man, so quit being a crybaby.
He called me the blight of humanity You were acting like one, so get over it.
He basically said in the legal bar scene in the PI it is not okay, but in the illegal bar scene in the states its not so bad because the women have other choices, which incidentally contradicts why he thinks adult entertainment should not be legal, because the women are all victims and didn't get there by free will. My head is spinning. I actually never said that. I said both were bad, but one was worse.
He chided me for not giving them money in exchange for nothing, and when I pointed out that I did, he chided me again. No, I didn't. I said that you thinking you were a hero for helping some while exploiting others was hypocritical, and that it didn't make you a hero. I would have no problem if all you did was give all the girls some money.

I did not engage street walkers. Read again. I went to legal, regulated establishments that treat there workers sooooo poorly that they get free medical care and one of them just uploaded her pictures onto FB from a bar-paid trip for a week in Boracay, Holy cows, I am practically a slave trader.

Vuk do you pay the sheep or do you get them drunk first?
Your ma's not a sheep Cent, she is an old goat! Sheep don't have beards.

And you can't even buy a girl a drink :(

Drunk me had no idea why you kept playing scrabble. Where I come from the binge drinking was "bible study" and the sex was "prayers". Damn Okie

The both of them.

Vuk can't seem to comprehend that women are not damsels needing to be saved, they can in fact be adults and make adult decisions.
I never said that Strike. Black men in the old South and white men in the old North were not damsels that needed saving, and were adults capable of making adult decisions. There still were being exploited. It is not an insult to someone to say that they are being exploited. Anyone, male or femal can be exploited.

precisely. I guess in Vuk and Kadagars' eyes trophy wives are all whores and prostitutes as well and their husbands are scum.

No, my selfproclaimed brat, it is a completely diff animal. 'Trophy wives' have a choice.

[Vuk]

I think you guys are being too hard on Kadgar. He is echoing that Vuk's concerns are somewhat legitimate, which they would be. The problem is that Vuk is pulling the trigger without reading the story, before asking questions, and without even letting me finish the other chapters.

If people want to ask questions and talk about this, then have at it. But calling me a pedophile and the blight of humanity is not a good way to start a conversation, particulalry when it is coming from a future domestic terrorist

A future domestic terrorist? Wow, lol. And you get bent out of shape because I insinuate from what you posted that you may be a pedo. (and even you have to admit that you did not do yourself many favors in that post)
Did I jump the gun with my criticisms? I don't think so. You posted quite enough for me to form an opinion on what I had read. I am sorry if you think it is too harsh, but frankly, I think you are just grasping at straws to justify a pretty unethical thing you did.

He is currently living on a farm compound raising superhumans to overthrow teh govermentz and insitute a pseudo militaristic society based around bayonet training.



I am remarking on the irony of your comments regarding treating women like your sisters or daughter.

Simple things for simple minds. Some people are easily amused. And I never said you should treat women like your sisters and daughter, I said you should treat them how you would want a stranger to treat you female family members. I guess when your daddy is an Admiral, it is not that important to learn how to read.

Should I point out the obvious flaw in Vuk's argument and say that while it is perfectly healthy to want to have sex with women you're not related to, it is wrong to have it with daughters or sisters.

Reading is not your strong point either I see.

Geez. U guys talk like I was giving donkey punches and golden showers.

Go visit a wbsite like pattaya addicts, and see how a lot of these guys treat the girls. A lot of them get offended if the girls ask to be fed, or ask to spend the night, or eat a candy from the fridge. They haggle off twenty dollars. There is one guy with an apartment with bad plumbing, who will blame a girl for a clogged toilet and then only pay her half while faking he will have to pay for repairs. This guy brags about this.

I witnessed men walking around talking to the locals like they were scum for asking for a tip when in fact they should not have to ask.

I made it a point not to be "that guy"

I would think my photos of smiling girls in clean digs gorging of food would indicate that people other than myself had a good time. God forbid they get a customer/date who doesn't treat them like dirt

Saying that other people treat them worse than you do does not make you a hero, nor does it absolve you of guilt for participating in the industry.
Say you make these women's lives better. You still encourage others to join the industry or force others into it, who will be treated badly by the majority of their clients. So how do you improve the situation in the PI on a whole?
You obviously are determined to believe what you want to believe, and I disagree with you strongly. Honestly though, I think at this point we have both said all we have to say, and it would be best if we agree to disagree on this.

[Vladimir]

Somebody's hungry! Who shall feed him this time?

[Vuk]

Somebody's hungry! Who shall feed him this time?

Yes, if you disagree with me you are a holy crusader! If I disagree with you I am a troll. You should work for MSNBC

[Montmorency]

Trophy wives have just as much choice as these sex trade workers, Vuk. Anyway, they are primarily dancers, waitresses, and bar-maid types - why do you assume they are desperate? Do you dispute MRD's assertion on Philippine attitudes to sex? Do you counterclaim that sex for money is considered a dirty and shameful last resort in the Philippines? Are you basing this off The Scarlet Letter or something like that?

You will have to do better if you wish to convince the Major's devoted readers that your calls of "unethical" behavior aren't just bizarre.

Saying that other people treat them worse than you do does not make you a hero, nor does it absolve you of guilt for participating in the industry.

That's funny stuff. But yes, treating someone "well" is technically the equivalent of not treating someone as badly as others.

[Beskar]

This thread is split from the original to keep the other one on-topic. Feel free to discuss the objections to the sex trade in here.

Also, calm the personal attacks.

[Kadagar_AV]

I'm still interested in why Centurion1 think a guy who have had multiple sexual partners would be less allowed to be heard in matters of prostitution or how to treat a woman?

So Centurion1, how many girls can a guy have sex with in your opinion, and still be allowed to talk about prostitution?

Same goes for how to treat a woman, how many girls can I have done before not having a say in how to treat women?

I find your attacks absolutely ridiculous, to be honest. But go ahed and defend them, I am listening...

[Centurion1]

I'm still interested in why Centurion1 think a guy who have had multiple sexual partners would be less allowed to be heard in matters of prostitution or how to treat a woman?

So Centurion1, how many girls can a guy have sex with in your opinion, and still be allowed to talk about prostitution?

Same goes for how to treat a woman, how many girls can I have done before not having a say in how to treat women?

I find your attacks absolutely ridiculous, to be honest. But go ahed and defend them, I am listening...

You are more than welcome too if I said you couldn't I wouldn't involve myself in this discussion either. There is nothing wrong with having multiple sexual partners I would encourage it. My point being that based on your comments in the past you aren't exactly speaking from the high ground in terms of treating women like your sisters or mother. That's all your views on prostitution are no less legitimate than anyone else. Personally I don't like prostitution will never engage in it and find it distasteful. However, I also recognize the beast that is the Philippines. What seems to be of issue here is that so few of you have any idea what the Philippines are actually like. I would suggest that before you attack MRD for what he did you find out what PI is really like.

Simple things for simple minds. Some people are easily amused. And I never said you should treat women like your sisters and daughter, I said you should treat them how you would want a stranger to treat you female family members. I guess when your daddy is an Admiral, it is not that important to learn how to read.

Sigh

First of all my father was not an admiral. Do you have any idea what it is like to be from a military family? You don't. To have your father gone for 6 months at a time, to live in absolute nightmares like PI or Bahrain or worse and then to top it all off having to worry about them dying. But naw entitled old me hasn't had to worry about anything ever in my life. Have some damned respect. You can attack me but don't use my veteran father to do it,

[Greyblades]

This is not ending well...

[Major Robert Dump]

If you don't see the difference between taking a woman in the US out to dinner so you can seduce her, when she has full legal protections and is not financially dependent on you, and paying a woman who for all you know has no choice in her line of work (thanks to what you and people like you do) to sexually pleasure you so she can put food on the table, then you are really blinding yourself.

Dear Vuk,

Women in the Philippines legally, who are working at legal establishments, do have full legal protections, whereas I, the Gringo from America, have none. In fact, in the event of a dispute over things such as bills at bars, payments to bar girls, and taxi disputes, the foreigner is always wrong and will always end up paying, extorted or in jail. Yet time and time again you refuse to accept that I was in a legal business, and seem to think that I was in a thatch brothel in an alley in Cambodia. What, exactly is the malfunction?

Furthermore, Dearest Boy, the underlined section is utterly fail: So, because of what I do, she has no choice in her line of work? I think you may have a misunderstanding of how economics works. If there was no club for her to work in, would a Wal Mart magically appear for her to work at? Likewise, if I burn down a wal mart, will a Go Go Club appear?

If this is how she puts food on the table, then it is certainly a good thing that she is getting customers. And what a better customer than a nice guy like me?

Me pulling at heartstrings? "I am giving these women more money than they have seen in their lives because I am such a nice little pervert!"
Me pulling at heartstrings? lol So what? Do you want a pat on the back?

Dear Vuk,

That is not the attitude I am taking, but rather I am pointing out that I am paying them above average, which is actually part of a larger theme in the overall story, not because I am a hero, but because I am amazed at how appalling others actions can be, and because I am a nice guy. The fact that I chose to sometimes do this in conjunction with paying for a date seems to be your biggest issue, and I will again reiterate that not only were they there voluntarily, they had a good time.

I am not understanding where you are getting this hero thing. In fact, in various other Org threads, I consistently point out -- brag in fact -- that I ALWAYS tip, and I tip well, and if I cannot afford a tip then I do not buy said service a tip is associated with.

This leaves me no choice but to conclude that you are not a tipper, and you are upset by people who choose to throw a little green. You do not tip the pizza delivery man and likely say something like "Sorry man, I'll get you next time" while shrugging your shoulders. Or perhaps you justify not tipping your waitress because the steak, which she did not cook, was too salty. Or perhaps you are the guy who sits in the front row of the strip club and never tips the dancer. Or perhaps you have done all three.
I appreciate that you think so highly of my tipping and being nice as to be rabidly envious, but please, save your subtle, repressed praise, as I certainly do not deserve it. I am just a nice guy, and I would tip you even, despite my pizza having a piece missing.

I don't care how handsome you are/think you are, or how well endowed you are/think you are. The point is that if you were not an American they thought they could get something monetary out of, and you were of their social class and lived there, you would not be getting a 1/100 as lucky as you were. And justifying it by saying that other people are worse to them than you is not exactly that great of a justification.

Dear Vuk,

Regarding the above paragraph, where you basically say that someone with money and education and mobility will always get the girl, let me start by welcoming you to the Real World. Please enjoy your stay.

First, me being American has far less to do with your percieved crime than me having money. Japanese, Russian, Arab. It's more the money than the nationaility, in terms of taking these ladies out.

The American part comes into play in regards to their personal opinions and attitudes towards me. I do not understand why it is so difficult to believe that some of these women can like me?

Perhaps you are not aware of this, but in the regualted, legal bars, women can turn down potential suitors. Many will not go with Koreans. Many will not go with Black men. Many will not go with Arabs. There are bars where I will be ignored. Again, you are showing how misinformed that you are.

Oh, Dear Vukky, I like how you went from saying that the women there would spit on me if I didn't have money, to saying that they would ignore me if I were just another local guy. Way to backpeddle, bro.

And actually, Vuk, if they would ignore me if I were a local guy, than I am curious why the country is so overpopulated? Why do you hate Filipino men so much? IS YOU RACIST?

I said that you thinking you were a hero for helping some while exploiting others was hypocritical, and that it didn't make you a hero. I would have no problem if all you did was give all the girls some money.

Dear Vuk,

You have a very broad definition of exploit. Apparently, because someone is being exploited somewhere, then the woman who is having a great time with MRD and making lots of money doing it is being exploited, too. Apparently, a woman picking me up in the mall, telling me she is not interested in a boyfriend, and then coming back 2 more times, is being exploited. Apparently, discreetly offering 3 waitresses money to come by my hotel room (which means no manager was forcing them, because he didn't know), and then said waitresses stopping by to party, well, that is exploitation because somewhere someone is being exploited. Lovely reasoning.

I don't give a shite if you 'have it' or not. I was never arguing about whether you were hot or not, because frankly, I could not give a damn. Stop being so insecure man. Whether you are hot or not, that still has no effect on you exploiting people in the sex tourism industry.

Dear Vuk,

Please see previous post. Please also refer to photos of women dancing, laughing, having a good time, and re-appearing at my abode over and over and over on different days because, apparently, they crave to be exploited.

Knowing you, you will choose to believe that I held them hostage and made them change clothes as part of a left wing conspiracy to legalize prostitution and destroy the American family so the gays can take over. For that, I applaud you in advance.

No, I actually had read all of your posts in full before responding. I did not ridicule you for playing hero. I ridiculed you for taking advantage of people and thinking you were a hero. If you wanted to just help people and think you were a hero, I would have no problem with that. The thing is though that you go over there and sleep with a bunch of desperate women (as you yourself just admitted above) who are sleeping with you for money, and then think yourself a hero.

Dear Vuk,

What this boils down to is a fundamental difference in the definition of "exploit," and the long term effects of the activities of "people like me."

What will really blow your mind will be the instances where the women got mad when I did not play Scrabble with them after date. Maybe, this was because they thought they would make less money. Or maybe, they were wanting to try to talk me into a baby. Or maybe, they just knew that I had a couple of BIG WORDS that would score well and make the game more fun for all

Saying that other people treat them worse than you do does not make you a hero, nor does it absolve you of guilt for participating in the industry.
Say you make these women's lives better. You still encourage others to join the industry or force others into it, who will be treated badly by the majority of their clients. So how do you improve the situation in the PI on a whole?

Dear Vuk,

You have no tangible proof that the majority of the girls in these bars are miserable, abused, treated poorly by customers, etc.

I happen to know they are treated poorly because I hear and read stories, both from men and the girls, but this is not the majority. Most men who experience these things do not post or talk about it (because of judgement by people like you). Just because there are stories online of jerks doing jerk things does not make it the majority, those people are the sociopaths

The leap that I am encouraging others to join the industry or be forced into it is absurd, even by your own standards. Even without me overtipping and being nice, the number of women seeking these jobs is overwhelming.

How do we improve the PI as a whole? Whoa, a question? You want to have a discusion now?

Well, for starters, prostitution should remain legal, like it is in much of the world. And the government should try out secularlism for a change, so they stop over producing babies and stifling sex educations.

As you may or may not know, the parliament that threw out the US bases were themselves thrown out because of the tens of thousands of jobs that were lost, and all that money moved to Guam and Okinawa. The Country had virtually no valid plan to fill this vacuum of joblessness.

Meanwhile, our lovely government officials in the State Department and USAID and the USDA taught the PI government how to run a capitalist democracy just like we run ours (piss poorly), except throw in a few pinches of Open Sexuality-Cahtolicism identity crises and a dash of Pacific Islander Tribal Grift, and you get what they have today, which the good ole USA should have seen coming from a mile away because we had been seeing it firsthand for several generations.

The PI cannot feed itself and imports almost all of its food. It's #1 resource is educated, middle class, english speaking man power and much of them GTFO and go elsewhere to work. Unfortunately, because of stupid US immigration laws, many of them go to middle eastern and north african countries to work or be held captive for rich lazy people, and they learn zero marketable job skills.

The PI, in a truly ironic twist, made the Pay-For-Web-Show industry illegal, complete with harsh sentences for people who run them (a couple Swedes got 40 years). Yet, 1000s of women still work on these websites, and make far less money doing it because it is underground.

I have now talked to you like an adult for several paragraphs now, and it is tiring me, so

Dear Vuk

#1:
Bar Girls in the PI make more in one week than they would in a "normal job" in 3 months, to include working as nurses, the majority of which comes from lady drinks commissions and salaries, and there is typically a waiting list of future employees. Most women work in this job for 2-3 years. They can turn down customers.

#2:
Bar Girls in the PI who get western sponsors (i.e. quit being a bar girl and I will send you $$); they rarely ever quit their bar job (so much for forcing and desperation and last resort; they see having a sponsor as a status symbol in addition to an ATM (Irish, from day 5, has multiple sponsors, and brags of this to her work mates); meeting western men who have money is a recruiting selling point, and a very large number of the employees are related, i.e. sister recruitng sister etc ...... and I know this because, get ready (drum roll)

#3:
I am a Private Investigator in the civilian sector, which also happens to be why I deal with and record police officers (not while trolling teenage girls, as you wish to believe), and plan on expanding my business into Asia to check on "fiancees" being sponsored, cheating spouses on "business" trips, and absentee business arrangements, because the Filipino private investigators cannot be trusted. Those investigators cannot be trusted because they will alert their mark for surveillance, and then they will extort money from the unfaithful fiancee or the cheating married man or thieving restaurant manager, and send back a clean bill of activity. Often, rather than give money, the fiancees offer sex.

#4:
The market for these sorts of checks from a dependable source is enormous, because of the huge amount of fraud and grift going on, which is a cultural institution in the Philippines, from the taxi driver up to the parliament. It is not uncommon for a western man chatting with his Filipino "fiancee" to discover that the time her webcam was "not working" that he was actually chatting with her brother, or mother, or husband. When meeting the family, it is not uncommon for the brother or cousin to actually be the husband. This is Filipino grift that goes into the tens of millions each year from blokes all across the world, but the grift does not only go one way. Plenty of men never make the trip to the PI and string girls along. Plenty of men use these girls for webcam sex with false promises, and in return, they get false promises.

Do you see a theme here, with the sex as quid pro quo thing? Do you see a theme here, with everyone on the take? Do you see a theme here, where people are actively and willingly participating. Why is it so hard for you to believe that people do this willingly in sanctioned establishment and some in fact like it, because they have a lower average GDP?


I am not going to feel guilty for doing something perfectly legal because some where, some place, there may be someone involved in the industry who has drawn the short straw, particulalry since I treated these ladies well, they had a good time and I made some new friends in the process. There are people working these jobs because they are desperate, just as there are people working these jobs because they can make obscene amounts of money in a relatively short time, or because they see an opportunity to work some scams and some angles. If you walk into any strip club in the states, you will find virtually the same set of stories, some of them true, some of them untrue. The same can be said for someone who wipes butts in a nursing home.

I will, however, concede that in the Philippines there still exists a certain level of romanticism with meeting Mr Right that is noticebaly void in American clubs (cant speak for other countries), where very few American strippers are going to work thinking they will meet their dream guy. This attitude varies from girl to girl, and time in the job. And sometimes, they do meet Mr Right, and they do get married, with mixed results.

[Kadagar_AV]

You are more than welcome too if I said you couldn't I wouldn't involve myself in this discussion either. There is nothing wrong with having multiple sexual partners I would encourage it. My point being that based on your comments in the past you aren't exactly speaking from the high ground in terms of treating women like your sisters or mother. That's all your views on prostitution are no less legitimate than anyone else. Personally I don't like prostitution will never engage in it and find it distasteful. However, I also recognize the beast that is the Philippines. What seems to be of issue here is that so few of you have any idea what the Philippines are actually like. I would suggest that before you attack MRD for what he did you find out what PI is really like.

I don't think MRD feels attacked by me...

I acknowledge that there IS major moral issues in this whole thing, with that said, I do not believe MRD is doing anything wrong. I do however accuse him of being very much HUMAN, but from what I have read he is upholding a personal moral codex in a sick world. And for that I salute him.

I guess I have a easy time accepting it, as I can recognize myself in it.

Throughout my years I have done my out most to treat girls in a nice and fair way. Bear in mind that I for YEARS have operated in a small town as a foreigner in a rather nationalistic country. Had I been a pig towards girls, I would have been shoo'ed away long since. As it is though, people respect me for who I am around there.

This said, I have upheld a different set of moral than you might be used to. As an example, if a married woman has approached me, I might well have taken her home.

I am sure you say: "But what about her kids, family, everything you home wrecker!"

To that I answer: "I have no idea".

She might also be mentally and physically abused by a drunk, desperately trying to hold it together for some reason but seeking a release. I'm not saying she is, I am saying I don't know, and don't care. If someone want to sleep with me, and I want to sleep with them, I will simply treat them as nicely and fairly as I possibly can.

So I recognize myself in MRDs thinking... Spending the same money in the same place he COULD well donkey punch women while giving midgets golden showers, but that's not exactly what he is doing, now is it? So why don't we cut him some slack, and give some kudos for the positive things as well?

[Major Robert Dump]

I really think you guys are misreading what Kadgar was saying or how he was saying it. This has happened in the past.

Sometimes what he writes is taken the wrong way because he uses Windows auto-dictate which is messed up by his throat cancer voice box and his Cuban accent. Cut him a break.

Everyone chill out

And book a ticket to the Philippines

[Major Robert Dump]

I don't think MRD feels attacked by me...

I acknowledge that there IS major moral issues in this whole thing, with that said, I do not believe MRD is doing anything wrong. I do however accuse him of being very much HUMAN, but from what I have read he is upholding a personal moral codex in a sick world. And for that I salute him.

I guess I have a easy time accepting it, as I can recognize myself in it.

Throughout my years I have done my out most to treat girls in a nice and fair way. Bear in mind that I for YEARS have operated in a small town as a foreigner in a rather nationalistic country. Had I been a pig towards girls, I would have been shoo'ed away long since. As it is though, people respect me for who I am around there.

This said, I have upheld a different set of moral than you might be used to. As an example, if a married woman has approached me, I might well have taken her home.

I am sure you say: "But what about her kids, family, everything you home wrecker!"

To that I answer: "I have no idea".

She might also be mentally and physically abused by a drunk, desperately trying to hold it together for some reason but seeking a release. I'm not saying she is, I am saying I don't know, and don't care. If someone want to sleep with me, and I want to sleep with them, I will simply treat them as nicely and fairly as I possibly can.

So I recognize myself in MRDs thinking... Spending the same money in the same place he COULD well donkey punch women while giving midgets golden showers, but that's not exactly what he is doing, now is it? So why don't we cut him some slack, and give some kudos for the positive things as well?

You said "release"

How many scrabble points is that worth?

[Greyblades]

Perhaps you are not aware of this, but in the regualted, legal bars, women can turn down potential suitors. Many will not go with Koreans. Many will not go with Black men. Many will not go with Arabs. There are bars where I will be ignored. Again, you are showing how misinformed that you are.

The korean bit's oddly specific, do they have a bad reputation in PI?

[Kadagar_AV]

You said "release"

How many scrabble points is that worth?

How come you are so good at scrabble, but yet find it so hard to spell "Kadagar"? Getting the vowels in should be easy enough, there are 3 of them and they are all A's. Quite simple, really. "Kad" is of course also acceptable ;)

[Centurion1]

I don't think MRD feels attacked by me...

I acknowledge that there IS major moral issues in this whole thing, with that said, I do not believe MRD is doing anything wrong. I do however accuse him of being very much HUMAN, but from what I have read he is upholding a personal moral codex in a sick world. And for that I salute him.

I guess I have a easy time accepting it, as I can recognize myself in it.

Throughout my years I have done my out most to treat girls in a nice and fair way. Bear in mind that I for YEARS have operated in a small town as a foreigner in a rather nationalistic country. Had I been a pig towards girls, I would have been shoo'ed away long since. As it is though, people respect me for who I am around there.

This said, I have upheld a different set of moral than you might be used to. As an example, if a married woman has approached me, I might well have taken her home.

I am sure you say: "But what about her kids, family, everything you home wrecker!"

To that I answer: "I have no idea".

She might also be mentally and physically abused by a drunk, desperately trying to hold it together for some reason but seeking a release. I'm not saying she is, I am saying I don't know, and don't care. If someone want to sleep with me, and I want to sleep with them, I will simply treat them as nicely and fairly as I possibly can.

So I recognize myself in MRDs thinking... Spending the same money in the same place he COULD well donkey punch women while giving midgets golden showers, but that's not exactly what he is doing, now is it? So why don't we cut him some slack, and give some kudos for the positive things as well?

And thats what I'm going at. I don't find you morally reprehensible for sleeping with attached girls, I've done it myself (though not married) my point is merely to illustrate the fact that so much of this is absolutely subjective and that depending on your location completely different. So rather than attacking MRD for what he did (not saying you did) we should rather look at the act of sexual favors for money without any sort of personal veil. The backroom isn't for bashing each other or personally based arguments.

tl;dr this isn't a thread about MRD or any of us this is a thread about sex trading. So let's stick to it.

[Centurion1]

The korean bit's oddly specific, do they have a bad reputation in PI?

Korean men don't even do well in Korea. Which is why my buddies and I are going to Japan, Singapore and Korea this winter. It's the culmination of everything I have ever feverishly dreamed of in a yellow haze.

[Vuk]

First of all my father was not an admiral. Do you have any idea what it is like to be from a military family? You don't. To have your father gone for 6 months at a time, to live in absolute nightmares like PI or Bahrain or worse and then to top it all off having to worry about them dying. But naw entitled old me hasn't had to worry about anything ever in my life. Have some damned respect. You can attack me but don't use my veteran father to do it.

lol, we can give, but we cannot take, eh? Let me point out Cent, that my father was also in the military. (a lowly grunt, unfortunately, so I did not enjoy a life full of salutes) Also, you attack and insult my family all the time, and have several times in this threat alone. Here I don't attack your family at all, but simply say that you are spoiled because of your station in life, and you freak out because I mention your father.
Have some respect? Maybe you can remember that the next time you attack me and my family the way that you, Strike, MRD, etc always do in this and other threads. I have no respect for you, based one the way that you have represented yourself on this forum. I didn't disrespect any of your family, which is more respect than you afford me, so quit playing the victim.

[Kadagar_AV]

And thats what I'm going at. I don't find you morally reprehensible for sleeping with attached girls, I've done it myself (though not married) my point is merely to illustrate the fact that so much of this is absolutely subjective and that depending on your location completely different. So rather than attacking MRD for what he did (not saying you did) we should rather look at the act of sexual favors for money without any sort of personal veil. The backroom isn't for bashing each other or personally based arguments.

tl;dr this isn't a thread about MRD or any of us this is a thread about sex trading. So let's stick to it.

So you have grown then, kudos.

When it comes to sex trade, I really gave up on having an opinion. As long as we have a society where people can draw advantages from sexual activities, people will do it. And as long as people will do it, I prefer to have it regulated and out in the open, to protect both parts from harm.

I really gave up on taking the train of thought further than that though, as it never led to anything constructive.

[Hax]

As much as I might disagree with the idea of exploitation of women in the Philippines, I know enough to say that I don't know enough about that particular country in order to make a well-educated assessment of the situation there. That being said, I think that I can trust enough in MRD's own judgement concerning these women and that they are indeed not forced to prostitution because of their abhorrent living standards or economic situation. Or something like that.

What I do want to say is that I think that Vuk (and to a lesser degree,Kadavar) is thinking within the context of this trope that often applies to South Asian urban environments. Call it the "Bangkok stereotype": every (poor) woman is a prostitute; every child is a child prostitute. I'm not saying that you're thinking this, but I think you're definitely being influenced by this notion. Tropes such as these return basically every time when we're talking about whatever: Asian girls are prostitutes; Arabs are terrorists; the Japanese are perverted; Americans are ignorant, etc, etc.

In this context, you're not doing these women any favour. By assuming that they're being forced into prostitution, you're kind of denying their own choice in this. Regardless of your opinion on the morality and/or objectionalities of prostitution, when you say just about anything about this, you're actually treading on very thin ice.

[Centurion1]

lol, we can give, but we cannot take, eh? Let me point out Cent, that my father was also in the military. (a lowly grunt, unfortunately, so I did not enjoy a life full of salutes) Also, you attack and insult my family all the time, and have several times in this threat alone. Here I don't attack your family at all, but simply say that you are spoiled because of your station in life, and you freak out because I mention your father.
Have some respect? Maybe you can remember that the next time you attack me and my family the way that you, Strike, MRD, etc always do in this and other threads. I have no respect for you, based one the way that you have represented yourself on this forum. I didn't disrespect any of your family, which is more respect than you afford me, so quit playing the victim.

I don't think anyone actually thinks your family is inbred or stupid and I don't attack them for actual actions or life choices they made do I? Meanwhile you bring the real world into your personal attacks. You have such a warped sense of the world that now people who come from the officer ranks are some sort wealthy elitist pigs. It is things like that which make people think your a moron.

"i did not enjoy a life full of salutes"

Yeah bro and you got to enjoy growing up in Wisconsin your entire life. I would be happy to trade one for the other. Just because i'm not unemployed and saddled with debt doesn't make me spoiled. My parents station in life is pretty middle class so if you hate the middle class and believe we are all born with silver spoons then sorry dude can't help you.

[Hax]

Also I don't usually agree with MRD and centurion. What is this world coming to? Am I Americanising?

[Kadagar_AV]

As much as I might disagree with the idea of exploitation of women in the Philippines, I know enough to say that I don't know enough about that particular country in order to make a well-educated assessment of the situation there. That being said, I think that I can trust enough in MRD's own judgement concerning these women and that they are indeed not forced to prostitution because of their abhorrent living standards or economic situation. Or something like that.

What I do want to say is that I think that Vuk (and to a lesser degree,Kadavar) is thinking within the context of this trope that often applies to South Asian urban environments. Call it the "Bangkok stereotype": every (poor) woman is a prostitute; every child is a child prostitute. I'm not saying that you're thinking this, but I think you're definitely being influenced by this notion. Tropes such as these return basically every time when we're talking about whatever: Asian girls are prostitutes; Arabs are terrorists; the Japanese are perverted; Americans are ignorant, etc, etc.

In this context, you're not doing these women any favour. By assuming that they're being forced into prostitution, you're kind of denying their own choice in this. Regardless of your opinion on the morality and/or objectionalities of prostitution, when you say just about anything about this, you're actually treading on very thin ice.

I haven't even bought a girl a single drink since the early 90's, before bedding her... Low self esteem is probably what set of my wilder days, so in any way using anything more than myself to get bedded seemed counter productive I guess.

I have absolutely NO idea of how it is in the PI, but the women I've met from all over the world would by and large much prefer to have their own economy and a loving partner, than an economic partner for the night.

With that said, Hax, I have been paid for sex... Didn't know that, now did you :p

So I for one know that it doesn't have to be all bad.

[Vuk]

I don't think anyone actually thinks your family is inbred or stupid and I don't attack them for actual actions or life choices they made do I? Meanwhile you bring the real world into your personal attacks. You have such a warped sense of the world that now people who come from the officer ranks are some sort wealthy elitist pigs. It is things like that which make people think your a moron.

"i did not enjoy a life full of salutes"

Yeah bro and you got to enjoy growing up in Wisconsin your entire life. I would be happy to trade one for the other. Just because i'm not unemployed and saddled with debt doesn't make me spoiled. My parents station in life is pretty middle class so if you hate the middle class and believe we are all born with silver spoons then sorry dude can't help you.

You don't believe the insults you say about my family? So what, the fact is that you do insult my family, and I don't insult yours. If you said half the things you said here about my family to me in real life, you would be eating sod right now. No, wait, I am sorry, you were an amateur boxer and I am a fat redneck who knows nothing about fighting...I remember now.

You bring the real world into you personal attacks on me as well, you hypocrite! How dare you claim that?
And no, I don't think that about people from the officer ranks. I was just making a petty jab at you, like the millions you always fling at me. I don't hate the middle class and I don't hate the rich. I have never been either, but hope some time in my life to be join their ranks. You are reading too much into a petty insult.
I'll make a deal with you Cent, even though you started being an *#&hole to me long before I was being one to you.. If you stop insulting me and my family, I will not insult you. Deal?

[Hax]

I have absolutely NO idea of how it is in the PI, but the women I've met from all over the world would by and large much prefer to have their own economy and a loving partner, than an economic partner for the night.

Maybe. Maybe not. I think I agree with that.

The only thing I'm trying to say here is that we shouldn't work with assumptions based on stereotypical views of something.

[Vuk]

Also I don't usually agree with MRD and centurion. What is this world coming to? Am I Americanising?

Welcome to the dark side. :)