Geert Wilders comes out of the closet as an anti-semite

[HoreTore]

I am not shocked.

The European far-right has always hated the jews. It was only a matter of time before the "new far-right" came out as antisemites, just like their older cousins.

It's not about "criticizing Islam". It's about hating everyone who do not look and act exactly as you do. And jews have toped the "people who are not like us"-list for a milennia.

Someone tell the White House to increase military spending. You'll need to rescue us from genocodal maniacs once again soon.

[Fragony]

They should just shut up, jews aren't special what goes for muslims goes for jews as well. A ban on ritual slaughter is a good thing, go somewhere else if you don't like it. So jews will leave, so what. Bye.

[rory_20_uk]

Sorry, sounds more like the anti-semite card being played.

I don't think that this method of slaughter is appropriate.
I don't think that female genital mutilation is appropriate.
I don't think that throwing wives onto the funeral pyre of their dead husbands is appropriate.
I don't think ritually strangling strangers as a religious act is appropriate.
I don't think that stoning adulterers to death is appropriate
I don't think skinning Vikings alive and nailing their skin to church doors is appropriate.
I don't think segreggation based on colour is appropriate.
I don't think raping virgins to cure AIDS is appropriate.

Merely that all these practices have been done doesn't make them acceptable. I am not bothered who does them. If one practice I am against is practiced by a particular group that is their problem - not mine. If there are places that let them practice this then fine, but it not up to me to tolerate every ritual that is done by anyone.

[Fragony]

They can roll up their anti-semite card and shove it up their arse. No special treatment for jews, I don't get any because I like to howl at the moon either.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

I am not shocked.

The European far-right has always hated the jews. It was only a matter of time before the "new far-right" came out as antisemites, just like their older cousins.

It's not about "criticizing Islam". It's about hating everyone who do not look and act exactly as you do. And jews have toped the "people who are not like us"-list for a milennia.

Someone tell the White House to increase military spending. You'll need to rescue us from genocodal maniacs once again soon.

The Political Left is also anti-Semetic - note the extremely rough ride the Israeli dance company got at the Fringe just because they recieve money from the government (why shouldn't they, they don't support extreme Zionism as a result).

I can't find the article on the Guardian website but, according to the author, during the performance (interrupted by protestors) an 82-year old Dutchman turned to her and said, "Don't worry, this isn't Kristalnaught, I remember that."

So...

I don't support slaughter without some form of stunning, even if it's just a hammer blow to the head, does that made me an Anti-Semite?

[HoreTore]

The Political Left is also anti-Semetic - note the extremely rough ride the Israeli dance company got at the Fringe just because they recieve money from the government (why shouldn't they, they don't support extreme Zionism as a result).

I can't find the article on the Guardian website but, according to the author, during the performance (interrupted by protestors) an 82-year old Dutchman turned to her and said, "Don't worry, this isn't Kristalnaught, I remember that."

So...

I don't support slaughter without some form of stunning, even if it's just a hammer blow to the head, does that made me an Anti-Semite?

Do you affiliate yourself politically with Geert Wilders, PVC?

[rory_20_uk]

Do you affiliate yourself politically with Geert Wilders, PVC?

It is possible, if not highly likely, to agree with almost everyone on some point of other. The allies had common ground with Stalin, Hitler was anti smoking, the Mafia tends to be pro-family values (however distorted / corrupted their other values might be).

I agree with Wilders on this particular topic. Wilders might have an agenda that this helps further that I don't have.

[HoreTore]

It is possible, if not highly likely, to agree with almost everyone on some point of other.

I know, and that's why I asked PVC, but not you.

As far as I know, PVC is a tory, but his post makes me wonder if he also supports Wilders and the parties he represents...

[Fragony]

I know, and that's why I asked PVC, but not you.

As far as I know, PVC is a tory, but his post makes me wonder if he also supports Wilders and the parties he represents...

Which will naturally be a horrible thing to do. I don't vote on him but he's the only Dutch politician with some guts. Funny thing about lefties, they see fascim everywhere but they will never recognise it when looking into a mirror.

...

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Do you affiliate yourself politically with Geert Wilders, PVC?

No, but I've been involved in the slaughter of animals, so I know they aren't dead until the blood stop flowing.

I'm also not a "Tory", I vote Tory currently because I happen to think our current Tory MP here is very good.

The point is - this is a non issue viz anti-Semitism, as is the issue of infant circumcision (sp?)

My decidedly jaundiced views on "Jewish" political identity should be fairly well known on this forum, they can be summed up in three words - no special pleading.

[Fragony]

No, but I've been involved in the slaughter of animals, so I know they aren't dead until the blood stop flowing.

Those are just spasms, but why insist on the animal to be fully concious. Do that somewhere else. But Horetore proves himself to be a member of what we just LOVE call the leftist church here. If you agree with something Wilders says you are no longer 100% OK and must support everything Wilders says.

[HoreTore]

Those are just spasms, but why insist on the animal to be fully concious. Do that somewhere else. But Horetore proves himself to be a member of what we just LOVE call the leftist church here. If you agree with something Wilders says you are no longer 100% OK and must support everything Wilders says.

I know I shouldn't respond to nonsense like this, but...

If what you say had any truth, frags, I would've asked rory as well. I didn't, mostly because my question wasn't based on PVC's agreement on kosher slaughter. It was rather based on a certain "X factor" of his post. The tone, the points made, the order the points were made etc all contributed to a certain undefinable thing that made me honestly wonder if he supported Wilders. As I thought he was a staunch Tory, that would be a rather dramatic shift in opinion, and such shifts are always interesting(at least to me).

To give an extreme example to conter your nonsense, a Neo-Nazi would agree that kosher slaughter should be banned. It's highly unlikely, however, that a neo-nazi would support Wilders.

[HoreTore]

I'm also not a "Tory", I vote Tory currently because I happen to think our current Tory MP here is very good.

My apologies. I had the impression that you identified with the conservative party on a stronger basis than that.

I'll be sure to notify the Politbureau and have them update their lists....

[naut]

No, but I've been involved in the slaughter of animals, so I know they aren't dead until the blood stop flowing.

A point that carries across to our species too:

" Wrist cutting is not usually life threatening and patients who self-mutilate know it."

Joel Paris, MD, (2004), Journal of Personality Disorders, The Guilford Press.

Even a libertarian like me will concede some freedoms if the reasoning is sound.

[Fragony]

The Political Left is also anti-Semetic - note the extremely rough ride the Israeli dance company got at the Fringe just because they recieve money from the government (why shouldn't they, they don't support extreme Zionism as a result).

I can't find the article on the Guardian website but, according to the author, during the performance (interrupted by protestors) an 82-year old Dutchman turned to her and said, "Don't worry, this isn't Kristalnaught, I remember that."

So...

I don't support slaughter without some form of stunning, even if it's just a hammer blow to the head, does that made me an Anti-Semite?

There was no Krystalnacht in the Netherlands, I don't know what he remembers but he may be senile. Horetore is just pointing out the irony as Wilders is regarded as a hardcore Israel lover by the left. But for Wilders Israel is just the canary in the colemine. It is probably true that he gets funds from jewish organisations but as you can see he is not on their leash as the left keeps furiously screaming.

[Furunculus]

I am not shocked.

The European far-right has always hated the jews. It was only a matter of time before the "new far-right" came out as antisemites, just like their older cousins.

It's not about "criticizing Islam". It's about hating everyone who do not look and act exactly as you do. And jews have toped the "people who are not like us"-list for a milennia.

Someone tell the White House to increase military spending. You'll need to rescue us from genocodal maniacs once again soon.

just so we all understand what the hyperbole above is referring to let me present the title of the linked article:

"Israel’s chief rabbi warns Dutch populist politician over kosher slaughter ban"

Not exactly calling for the ovens to be set to maximum is he!

[Fragony]

just so we all understand what the hyperbole above is referring to let me present the title of the linked article:

"Israel’s chief rabbi warns Dutch populist politician over kosher slaughter ban"

Not exactly calling for the ovens to be set to maximum is he!

Oh screw him, he got a perfectly fine wall to wail at in jeruzalem. Jews happy, we not all that bothered. Pretty nice eventually. Piss off is as mildly as I can put it, choke on your beard torah-jugend

[Andres]

I am not shocked.

The European far-right has always hated the jews. It was only a matter of time before the "new far-right" came out as antisemites, just like their older cousins.

It's not about "criticizing Islam". It's about hating everyone who do not look and act exactly as you do. And jews have toped the "people who are not like us"-list for a milennia.

Someone tell the White House to increase military spending. You'll need to rescue us from genocodal maniacs once again soon.

You did read that it all begun with bill that was proposed by an animal rights party and that passed the lower house?

Wilders, among, apparently, other political parties, supported that bill back then? Or he didn't?

Are all those parties who did support it in 2011 now "far right" and antisemites?

Do you consider animal rights activists potential genocidal maniacs?

What is antisemite in expecting everybody to respect certain legislation? No ritual slaught of animals. If you want to be offended and consider it anti-Islam or antisemite, then so be it. It has nothing to do with religion, but with animal rights.

[Fragony]

You did read that it was a bill proposed by an animal rights party?

Wilders, among, apparently, other political parties, supported that bill.

Are all those parties now "far right" and antisemites?

Do you consider animal rights activists potential genocidal maniacs?

What is antisemite in expecting everybody to respect certain legislation? No ritual slaught of animals. If you want to be offended and consider it anti-Islam or antisemite, then so be it. It has nothing to do with religion, but with animal rights.

Kinda sums it up. If religious jews think they have an ally in Wilders when it comes to religious slaughter or the jewish religion they are mistaken.

[CBR]

You did read that it all begun with bill that was proposed by an animal rights party and that passed the lower house?

Which means the Dutch Party Animals are Nazis anti-semites too!

http://youtu.be/JngI1_8beoA

[Major Robert Dump]

I did not immediately read the article, and spent the first page saying to myself "I thought Gene Wilder was dead and I thought he ws a Canadian"

I don't know if this guy is being an anti semite so much as pretty anti religion in general, which I really dont have a problem with

[Fragony]

I don't know if this guy is being an anti semite so much as pretty anti religion in general, which I really dont have a problem with

He is anti-islam most of all, too much imho as there are many flavours of Islam. If he would be more considerate of that he would have my vote.

[HoreTore]

You did read that it all begun with bill that was proposed by an animal rights party and that passed the lower house?

Wilders, among, apparently, other political parties, supported that bill back then? Or he didn't?

Are all those parties who did support it in 2011 now "far right" and antisemites?

Do you consider animal rights activists potential genocidal maniacs?

What is antisemite in expecting everybody to respect certain legislation? No ritual slaught of animals. If you want to be offended and consider it anti-Islam or antisemite, then so be it. It has nothing to do with religion, but with animal rights.

See post #12.


When the only "animal rights" legislation you support is banning kosher, then yes, you are an antisemite.

The Belgian jews copes by importing meat, btw. Way to go outsourcing yet another industry!

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

See post #12.When the only "animal rights" legislation you support is banning kosher, then yes, you are an antisemite.The Belgian jews copes by importing meat, btw. Way to go outsourcing yet another industry!

This is not a tenable position - Kosher slaughter would be illegal in most of the EU were it not for a special Jewish exemption, wanting to end that exemption is not anti-Semetic.

[HoreTore]

This is not a tenable position - Kosher slaughter would be illegal in most of the EU were it not for a special Jewish exemption, wanting to end that exemption is not anti-Semetic.

The counter argument to this has been written countless times by numerous writers far more eloquent than myself, there's no real reason for me to respond.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

The counter argument to this has been written countless times by numerous writers far more eloquent than myself, there's no real reason for me to respond.

Banning infant circumcision is fine too in my book.

I would like a response from you, I think both I and the others in this thread who have argued passionately and in good faith here deserve one. There is no logical reason for Jews or Muslims to be allowed special pleading in cases like this - in fact, in a secular society such is unacceptable.

Why should Europe pander to dietary laws designed for an arid climate and bronze age technology?

[Moros]

See post #12.


When the only "animal rights" legislation you support is banning kosher, then yes, you are an antisemite.

The Belgian jews copes by importing meat, btw. Way to go outsourcing yet another industry!

Apparantly I was wrong Belgium still allows it, outlawing was a big thing though. But it is forbidden in Sweden, Iceland and guess what? Norway.
Also your argument about importing kosher meat is not valid. The biggest producer and by far the largest exporter of Halal meat, which has the same condition and is a bigger industry than kosher meat, is New Zealand. It is also the main source of Halal meat in Europe. And guess what, again these animals were required by law to be sedated. Buyaka! In other words Norway is preventing their muslim and jewish civilians to break their traditional laws. And when they try by exporting, they are usually still breaking them without knowing it. You guys are evil! You should think about moving to another country.

[Fragony]

Kinda scary a realisation that Horetore actually meant it. Lefties usually furiously scream that he's a puppet of the zionist movement. And now all of a sudden when jews don't get special treatment it's anti-semitism, at least make a choice. At first I thought Horetore apreciated the irony but I have always been terrible at leftist logic, I just don't see it

[Sir Moody]

Frag you really need to stop lumping the entire "left" into one group - the Left side of the political scale is made up of many different groups with varying views much like the Right is, and not everyone who aligns to the Left thinks the same thing

in this case I think Horetore is pushing it a little - I don't see where he made his leap to Anti-Semitism...

Wilders seems to be supporting the Ethical slaughter of animals - something I can wholly support

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Apparantly I was wrong Belgium still allows it, outlawing was a big thing though. But it is forbidden in Sweden, Iceland and guess what? Norway.
Also your argument about importing kosher meat is not valid. The biggest producer and by far the largest exporter of Halal meat, which has the same condition and is a bigger industry than kosher meat, is New Zealand. It is also the main source of Halal meat in Europe. And guess what, again these animals were required by law to be sedated. Buyaka! In other words Norway is preventing their muslim and jewish civilians to break their traditional laws. And when they try by exporting, they are usually still breaking them without knowing it. You guys are evil! You should think about moving to another country.

Well, by HoreTore's logic Norway MUST be ant-Semitic then because they still allow whaling, among other things.