U.S. Ambassador and three others killed in Libya.

[rvg]

As I pointed out, two whole posts ago, "Sam Bacille" may or may not be a fabricated identity. Extremely unclear.

Bacile has identified himself as an Israeli Jew in interviews, but Israeli diplomats said they have no record of anybody with that name being a citizen.

That revelation raised more questions about the identity of Bacile, who also claims to be a real estate developer in California.

Records show no evidence of a 50-something Sam Bacile residing in the Golden State or having a real estate license. He is now in hiding.

Furthermore:

Though Bacile claims he spent $5 million on the movie -- a figure that would put the film's budget on par with the Toronto International Film Festival entrant and Julianne Moore-starrer What Maisie Knew -- the 13 minutes of footage available online look unprofessional. Furthermore, Bacile has virtually no footprint in the Hollywood community. The writer-director-producer has no agent listed on IMDBPro and no credits on any film or TV production.

This is all good and such, but both Basile and his excuse for a movie are irrelevant. The only relevant thing is the muslim reaction to that movie.

[Hax]

I like the term the Muslim reaction. As if this is the general reaction of Muslims to stuff like this.

[Vuk]

I like the term the Muslim reaction. As if this is the general reaction of Muslims to stuff like this.

Kind of like when you and others talk about the American reaction to 9/11? The only reaction that is really important here is the reaction that is causing this violence. The peaceful reactions of muslims, jews, and Christians are not really important to the discussion. The reaction that is important is that of those muslims who killed innocent people for religious reasons.

[Fragony]

I like the term the Muslim reaction. As if this is the general reaction of Muslims to stuff like this.

Kinda is or did I miss something

[Kadagar_AV]

I like the term the Muslim reaction. As if this is the general reaction of Muslims to stuff like this.

My problem, is that we can depict Jesus as homosexual, and Christians will start mail bombing you.

Depict Muhamemd in any way, and muslims will start bombing you. Do you see the difference there?

I am not saying all muslims are idiots. But all idiots seem to be muslim. You can defend the religion all you want, but the fact is that there are MILLIONS of people out there with what I consider an extremely unhealthy look on life at large. And they all seem to wave a quaran around (can't be bothered to spell the piece of **** book right in English).

[Strike For The South]

I remember when the NWO used actual Jews to do their bidding.

[Major Robert Dump]

@Lemur (and others)

First off, in my intial post I was distracted and should not have mentioned the 2nd Amendment. That as carelessless on my part. I meant only the 1st.

In regards to the statement, regarding the "denigration of religion...."

In the past, for example the idiot preacher in Florida burning Korans, condemnation of the act was typically accompanied by a reminder that although it was distatesful, it was also legal. Over and over, people like KArzai called for the preachers arrest and prosecution, and over and over, he was told it was not illegal what the man did.

This time, we get just a subtle reference to the films intent, along with rebuking the violence.

The fact is these people, and I do mean these people in the most bigoted, ethnocentric manner, need to be reminded that what this man did was not illegal, and no amount of rioting and violence is ever (I hope) going to make our government start preventing things like this from being produced. These people need to be reminded that the world does not revolve around their superstitions or their religious whims, because the more you remind them the more likely they may eventually come around to understanding the concept of religious freedom and freedom of expression.

Trying to explain these freedoms to even the most progressive, intelligent Afghan working for me was like trying to teach a chicken a magic trick. They just didn't get it. "Why dont you arrest himg?"...."Why doesn't the president just make him stop?" were their responses, they just didn't get it. I guess that's all you can expect from someone who is indoctrinated from birth and cannot even study science, math or history without having their textbooks peppered with allah This and Allah That, but hey, elightenment is worth a try....

[Strike For The South]

BUT ALL CULTURES ARE EQUAL !!!!111111111111111

[Seamus Fermanagh]

BUT ALL CULTURES ARE EQUAL !!!!111111111111111

There are times I simply adore you, Strike.



I said a prayer for the families and the deceased in this episode. Quite sickening, all told, but if anything surprisingly infrequent when you pause to think about it.

[Kadagar_AV]

Hax,

Again.

Personally I need more. If YOU want a religion you are proud of, then that religion must start to adhere to some of the basic principles as to how the rest of us view religions.

Even in Sweden we have imams with absolutely HORRIBLE views, and they are not shut up. I agree with you, I much agree with you, with the fact that they are often argued against. But, I don't care much if some imams are for blowing young Swedes up on the streets, and more imams are against a young Swede getting blown up on the streets.

My PROBLEM is that there is a young Swede blowing himself up in the street.


The same view is true from a larger perspective as well.

So again, until you go through your religions ranks and get rid of the more unwanted actors, you will have to deal with being lumped together with them.

The christian church, as well as all other religions, have had its own cleansings over the years. Otherwise they would today have had to deal with the same loons you now do. But that they have had the same problems but dealt with them, while you still have the problems but dont' deal with them. That wont get your religion any respect from me.

Me? I'm just a crazy atheist thinking the world would be a better place if people focused more on discovering space, inner and outer, than age old books and myths.

[Major Robert Dump]

Also, I love how Hamid KArzais call for justice invokes some image of this filmmaker inducing mad crazy violent strife in between two religions, as if christians and jews are out there with farmer tools fighting with the muslims.

This is totally one sided, as usual. But hey, if you leave the meat uncovered, amIright??????

[Hax]

My problem, is that we can depict Jesus as homosexual, and Christians will start mail bombing you.

Depict Muhamemd in any way, and muslims will start bombing you. Do you see the difference there?

Muhammad has been depicted numerous times throughout history, both by Muslims and non-Muslims alike and very little people were hurt in the process (not counting falling bricks and mishaps with shovels and the like). So that's definitely not the same as "in any way".

That does not at all detract the hysterical and insane reactions that seemed to be the case after the Jyllands-Posten cartoons or this more recent film, which is not what I'm arguing about and merits no arguing at all. There are some crazy people out there.

I am not saying all muslims are idiots. But all idiots seem to be muslim.

Really? The Church of Scientology has done some crazy things? Remember Aum Shinrikyo in Japan? The Manson family? Jonestown?

The notion that (mass) hysteria and disproportionate acts of retribution are somehow a part of Islam or that it is supposed to be a religion that lends itself extraordinarily well (speaking relatively to Christianity, Judaism and other religions) to violent behaviour is rooted in the idea that there are core aspects of Islam (as a religion) that are incompatible with our working definition of "civilisation". This then supports the notion that behind every well-behaved and decent Muslim there exists some kind of core that hates democracy and women. People just have to scratch hard enough and then this core would supposedly reveal itself. Edward Saïd wrote a lot about this concept back in the seventies.

[Kadagar_AV]

Muhammad has been depicted numerous times throughout history, both by Muslims and non-Muslims alike and very little people were hurt in the process (not counting falling bricks and mishaps with shovels and the like). So that's definitely not the same as "in any way".

That does not at all detract the hysterical and insane reactions that seemed to be the case after the Jyllands-Posten cartoons or this more recent film, which is not what I'm arguing about and merits no arguing at all. There are some crazy people out there.

Well, my point is that other religions seem to do a WAY better job of sorting out their loons.

Until the rest of the muslims start acting out against your more lunatical members of the muslim family, you must understand that the family at large will be questioned.

[Hax]

Well, my point is that other religions seem to do a WAY better job of sorting out their loons.

Until the rest of the muslims start acting out against your more lunatical members of the muslim family, you must understand that the family at large will be questioned.

Explaining to you the exact causes of why things are as they are takes a venture back into the 19th century and the foundation of the Saudi state, which will help explain a lot, but not everything.

I also disagree with the notion that somehow, Muslims are immediately complicit or approve of the actions committed by these people in Libya and Egypt, as I don't see the reason why the Irish should somehow all distance themselves from the IRA or that Germans should distance themself from the Holocaust now. A better example might be the presence of neo-nazis in contemporary Russia. When is the last time you said: "not all Russians are idiots, but all idiots seem Russian. Why aren't Russians distancing themselves from those neo-nazis in Moscow"?

you must understand that the family at large will be questioned.

This is not only arse gravy of the worst sort, it's also quite dangerous. So now Muslims from Indonesia, Morocco, Iran and Lebanon, with all the sectarian differences and differences in opinions between them are somehow also complicit.

[HoreTore]

This is all good and such, but both Basile and his excuse for a movie are irrelevant. The only relevant thing is the muslim reaction to that movie.

Muslim reactions? Which ones?

Kind of like when you and others talk about the American reaction to 9/11?

When talking about how the US state reacted to 9/11, what term other than "American reaction" can you use?

[TinCow]

Dunno if anyone saw this, but one of the guys that was killed was a Mod over at Something Awful, and a senior member of Goonswarm:
http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2012/09/vilerat/

I'm not quite sure why that has such an effect on me, but it does.

[rvg]

Muslim reactions? Which ones?

None of these... muslim reaction to the movie...

[HoreTore]

None of these... muslim reaction to the movie...

Again, which ones? The few who attacked the embassy, the ones who protested peacefully, the ones who said the movie was irrelevant and should be forgotten, the ones who said the film is within the bounds of free speech or the vast majority who simply did not care enough about it to say anything?

[rvg]

Again, which ones? The few who attacked the embassy, the ones who protested peacefully, the ones who said the movie was irrelevant and should be forgotten, the ones who said the film is within the bounds of free speech or the vast majority who simply did not care enough about it to say anything?

The ones who attacked, obviously.

[HoreTore]

The ones who attacked, obviously.

Ah....

So you are talking about the reaction of the people who attacked the embassy, not the reaction of muslims then?

Good to have that cleared up.

[rvg]

Ah....

So you are talking about the reaction of the people who attacked the embassy, not the reaction of muslims then?

Good to have that cleared up.

They are muslims, are they not?