Most Notorious Military Blunders

[Kadagar_AV]

Market Garden was overly ambitious, but I have every bit of respect for the men who undertook it. Those (British e.a.) paratroopers who managed to hold onto Arnhem Bridge for days without any support fought a desperate yet incredible battle.

Well, as do I.

One of the paratroopers when interviewed (watched it yesterday on nat geo) talked about the grievous errors on the commanding side, but adding that they would still have jumped with the information they had today. Quite though guys.

With that said, that's what you get when you create a hero general for public morale, and then actually let the idiot plan major operations.

[Conradus]

Isn't that a bit too harsh on Montey?

[Kadagar_AV]

Isn't that a bit too harsh on Montey?

Not really... The Desert Fox got his behind handed to him by Rommel until the balance of forces were what? 10-1 or so in Montey's favour, before he could win.

After that "strategical victory" he went off to plan this disaster.

Even later he went on to become a complete social pariah and was more or less hidden in a corner.

[Conradus]

Montey always was careful in his attacks (except Market Garden of course). The odds were more like 2-1 for Montey in North Africa initially, but that hadn't stopped Rommel from advancing that much. So some credit is due to Monteys handling of the Eight Army. Later on he played his part in the Battle of the Bulge even after the failure of Market Garden.
And that failure was like anything not entirely the fault of the planners, miscommunication, sheer luck amongst other things played its parts.

[Kadagar_AV]

Montey always was careful in his attacks (except Market Garden of course). The odds were more like 2-1 for Montey in North Africa initially, but that hadn't stopped Rommel from advancing that much. So some credit is due to Monteys handling of the Eight Army. Later on he played his part in the Battle of the Bulge even after the failure of Market Garden.
And that failure was like anything not entirely the fault of the planners, miscommunication, sheer luck amongst other things played its parts.

He wasn't "careful in his attacks", he was a blabbering fool. The epitome of the ill effects when you go for character not wits in the search for officers. The very idea that you dare to call him careful when he dropped thousands of troops on AA guns and elite regiments are evidence enough of carefulness not being the main characteristic of him.

He got his behind handed to him repeatedly in the desert until the power balance were WAY away from 2-1.

His desert victory only came when they had complete air superiority and 3-1 to 10-1 superiority on the ground.



And pretty please do not talk about luck... The more you train, the more luck you have. At least that is what I got taught in the army.

[ReluctantSamurai]

The Desert Fox got his behind handed to him by Rommel

I do believe you've got it backwards, there [the part about who was called the Desert Fox]

With that said, that's what you get when you create a hero general for public morale, and then actually let the idiot plan major operations.

Do you know who was responsible for the operational planning for "Overlord"?

He wasn't "careful in his attacks", he was a blabbering fool.

Rather an over the top comment, don't you think?

Monty was certainly cautious but he was no 'blabbering fool'. One only has to look at the condition of the British 8th Army in North Africa before Monty's arrival to see that he was no fool. And I don't believe Rommel took him for a fool either

I find it rather odd that Monty, to this day, still takes the heat for 'Market Garden' but Patton gets multiple kudos for being the dashing commander in Sicily and Operation Cobra, yet overlooking the fiasco of 3rd Army's assault on Metz.

But...there will always be 'Monty haters' as long as there is discussions about ww2

[Kadagar_AV]

I do believe you've got it backwards, there [the part about who was called the Desert Fox]



Do you know who was responsible for the operational planning for "Overlord"?



Rather an over the top comment, don't you think?

Monty was certainly cautious but he was no 'blabbering fool'. One only has to look at the condition of the British 8th Army in North Africa before Monty's arrival to see that he was no fool. And I don't believe Rommel took him for a fool either

I find it rather odd that Monty, to this day, still takes the heat for 'Market Garden' but Patton gets multiple kudos for being the dashing commander in Sicily and Operation Cobra, yet overlooking the fiasco of 3rd Army's assault on Metz.

But...there will always be 'Monty haters' as long as there is discussions about ww2

OMG, I blame weed and caffeine. Of course you are right, and oh what a fool I look! Yes indeed, Rommel = Desert Fox.

I know General Dwight Eisenhower was in command, but some of the beach landings I can see Monety's hands on ;)

And about NA... He got supplies and supplies and supplies and supplies...


Don't get me wrong, blabbering fool is of course an overstatement. However, his heroic role is, in my eyes, MUCH propaganda. A mediocre strategist, at best.

With that said, I will freely admit that my already displayed error would be enough to question me. I can't believe I wrote that.

[PanzerJaeger]

Do you know who was responsible for the operational planning for "Overlord"?

Heh, I'm not sure that Overlord is much of a credit to Monty's record.

I do agree, though, that Monty gets an inordinate amount of criticism, especially compared to the much overhyped Patton. The reality is that all the Allied commanders were dealing with overwhelming numerical superiority, among other significant advantages, and they all screwed up at one point or another despite them.