Getting dressed with SwordsMaster

[SwordsMaster]

Now that we're fit, and keeping up the daily workout, a hot babe can't keep away from you, and having had your pick, you settle down with one. You need to attend a family wedding, bring her along. But what do you wear?

To the rescue, SwordsMaster's Formal dress for men advice thread!

Does the manbag go with the shoes? My tiki towel with the leather waistcoat? My feathered had with my purple speedos? Wonder no more!

How we will work this is:

You can either post on the thread or PM me with advice for specific events. What jacket to wear? What tie? Dog's funeral? Reception with the King of Metal?

Otherwise, I will update this semi-regularly with general concepts on dressing for men (sorry ladies, years of maleness have not prepared me to advice on dresses...)

Today's topic is:
Does my belt have to match my shoes?

YES!

However - If you're not bothering with shoes, and you're wearing sneakers, mountain boots, ski boots, etc, it makes no difference. We're talking about wearing shoes. Also, the colours need not match 'exactly'. but they should always match approximately. Example: chestnut and chocolate are usually close enough, but reddish brown and light tan are not. Neither are blacks and browns! Unless they're so dark you can only tell the difference by what it says on the box.

[Hooahguy]

I always though that the shoes should match the outfit, hence, match the belt. Brown shoes goes with khaki pants, light-ish blue shirt, and a navy blazer with a light brown belt. Black shoes goes with black/navy pants and whatever shirt you want, and a black belt.

But then again Im not exactly known for being a fancy person so I could be way off.

[SwordsMaster]

I always though that the shoes should match the outfit, hence, match the belt. Brown shoes goes with khaki pants, light-ish blue shirt, and a navy blazer with a light brown belt. Black shoes goes with black/navy pants and whatever shirt you want, and a black belt.

But then again Im not exactly known for being a fancy person so I could be way off.

You're right, but as I said, the restriction is mostly on belt and shoes. I like the navy suit, light brown shoes/belt combination, personally. However, I would stay away from light browns on funerals, or black tie events...

[Vladimir]

Dance lessons at the French embassy. "Cocktail and business" attire is requested but it's dancing, not a fundraiser, and I'm certainly not James Bond.

Date is a half-Egyptian, half-Greek 20-something year old who works for a lobbying firm on the hill.

Suggestions?

[SwordsMaster]

Well, Vlad, cocktail is for her - you'll like it.

Considering it is an embassy (they tend to be a little more conservative) business means tie for you, at least at the door.
Suits:
I would go with either light grey or navy suit, black(grey), navy(grey)/light grey(navy) or light blue(navy) (think a bit greyer than a light blue sky) waistcoat, brown(navy)/black(grey) belt/shoes, and white shirt. Pick the tie to either match the suit, or the waistcoat, and then the pocket square to go with either shirt, waistcoat, or tie (if it doesn't match the suit already, that would be silly). Or go with white shirt, white pocket square.

If it's too hot for a waistcoat, go more creative on the shirt/tie. It's dancing, so you need not to be stuck on pastels/whites, go for bright red, dark grey, black, or even navy (and then get a contrasting tie). Stay away from green, and yellow (unless those are national colours or something. It isn't Paddy's day until March though!)

Or you can do what a friend of mine did - he made a suit out of yellow flip-flops (he's an ozzie, and was going to an embassy reception) and wore that. Depends on what you're going for. His date was his mate who was wearing a suit made out of green flip-flops...

Let me know if you have some more limited ideas in mind so we can work with something more specific.

[edyzmedieval]

I honestly would go for the sharp jacket and trousers without any tie. A navy blue suit/jacket would go really well, along with a crisp white shirt. It makes you feel comfortable and not relaxed but looking proper.

If they do require a tie, just put it on and ditch it after.

[SoFarSoGood]

Tie is a must for Embassies. String of garlic neck attire for French Embassy.

[Vladimir]

Tie is a must for Embassies. String of garlic neck attire for French Embassy.

I'm going to have to start smoking too.

[SwordsMaster]

Tie is a must for Embassies. String of garlic neck attire for French Embassy.

I shudder at the thought of what you might wear to a reception at the hungarian one...

[SoFarSoGood]

An Armenian scalp seems fitting. Get out of prison early card there it seems.

[SwordsMaster]

There is an excellent table (shamelessly stolen from wikipedia) to illustrate what is meant by 'business', 'formal', or 'informal' attire. It also saves me having to provide separate links for each. It's not what most of you think.

Formality (descending)	Daywear	Eveningwear
Ceremonial dress and Court dress	country dependent
Formal (or full formal, full dress, formal attire)	Morning dress	White tie (incl. ball gown for women)
Semi-formal, (le smoking in French, distinct from a smoking jacket)	Stroller	Black tie (i.e. prob. evening dress for women)
Informal (or [old fashioned] cocktail, business attire)	incl. lounge suit for men

[Fragony]

Shouldn't this be getting undressed with Swordmaster really, seems more fitting

Got a handie site for you www.theartofmanliness.com. This could just not work as the site hijacks my ipad (for a reason probably) and linking doesn't work.

[SwordsMaster]

Shouldn't this be getting undressed with Swordmaster really, seems more fitting

Got a handie site for you www.theartofmanliness.com. This could just not work as the site hijacks my ipad (for a reason probably) and linking doesn't work.

Bedankt, Frag. I'm aware of it. Been following it since '07 or so. Lots of good stuff there.

The only problem with that site is that it gives a fundamentally american perspective on men's dress. Which is a lot more casual than it should be, in my opinion. A polo shirt doesn't make you 'smart-casual' It makes you casual in a polo shirt. Specially if you're not wearing pants.

Anyway, that's my ranting.

[Vladimir]

I subscribe to the US Army school of thought when it comes to clothing. Uniform at work, loose T-shirt and jeans or shorts off work. Since I'm a civilian these days, its mostly just T-shirt and shorts. I have a closet with 15 identitical white T-shirts hanging side-by-side, and six pairs of identical blue jeans in a drawer. I don't know what the hell I'd wear to something where I had to look nice.

That's always been my problem: Soldiers dress like . I know the Marines have a force dress code but soldiers always embarrass me when I see them off duty.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

I'm poor - so I only have three suits, a nice tailored navy pinstripe two button, and two presentable blacks, one three button and one two button. I have a semi-formal jacket as well.

Outside London nobody seems to know how to dress today.

[SwordsMaster]

Unfortunately even in London it is all too sad sometimes.

I'm a more-or-less professional traveller, so I pack 2 suits, 1 navy, 1 grey,2 vests that can go with either, and a semi-formal jacket. Tweed. Yes. Tweed.
Have a nice pair of jeans, decent shoes, and a couple of black, and 3 white shirts, and you can survive anywhere.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

One of the best investments I made at 18 was a dinner jacket. I still have it, though I do need a new formal shirt, the amount it saved me in rentals is frankly astonishing.

As far as waistcoats go - my opinion, personally, is that if you are not overweight then you shouldn't wear one. Not only are they somewhat unflattering on most men who aren't overweight but they are also out of fashion, and you can come across as either eccentric or pretentious.

Of course, if you do wear a waistcoat and it has the pocket for a watch, you'd better have a pocket watch to go in it.

Lets talk about cuff-links now:

The simpler the better in my opinion, I own one pair of plain silver cuff-links.

[SoFarSoGood]

How about a Christening?

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Not to hijack SwordsMaster's thread...

That really depends.

Traditionally you would wear a Morning Suit (formal wear) the same as for a wedding - simplicity itself. However, modern usage is a bit more complex than that.

One issue we haven't covered is being overdressed, or too correctly dressed. If you are a young gentleman and you arrive to a Christening, or indeed a Wedding, and you are in a Morning Suit and the child's father/the Bride Groom is in a grey lounge suit you will probably offend your host. A morning suit is expensive and it is synonymous with a certain social strata and way of doing things.

If this is a society Christening you won't get into the Church without a Morning Suit, most likely. Otherwise, if you attended the couple's wedding that's probably a good rule of thumb - especially if it was a Church wedding - if you're not a godparent you're probably best off slumming it with a lounge suit, light grey for preference, and a nice double cuffed shirt in white or a pastel shade with an appropriate tie. This would be one instance where I would say a waistcoat would be appropriate if you want to look a bit more formal.

With regard to shoes, a gentleman is undressed in brown leather unless he is riding or in the army. The brown shoes/blue suit combo in particular is considered to be ungentlemanly, so I am let to believe.

If you were in the military then No.1 Service Dress is a Morning Suit and No.2 is a Lounge Suit in this situation.

Errr...

Avoid school or university ties, and your jewelry should match - which means your cuff-links and tie-slide or tie chain. I don't wear the latter, personally, but if I did I would wear the slide or chain rather than a tie clip or tie pin, because they will damage your tie!

SwordsMaster?

[CountArach]

Those ties that look like piano keys... Yes or no?

[SoFarSoGood]

The brown shoes/blue suit combo in particular is considered to be ungentlemanly, so I am let to believe.

Avoid school or university ties

Totaly agree with the first part and will do second.

[SwordsMaster]

Not to hijack SwordsMaster's thread...

That really depends.

Traditionally you would wear a Morning Suit (formal wear) the same as for a wedding - simplicity itself. However, modern usage is a bit more complex than that.

Only if the event is before 6pm! After that it would be eveningwear time. Traditionally both weddings and christenings took place in the morning, hence the morning suit requirement. Since that is not necessarily the case anymore, you must adjust accordingly.

One issue we haven't covered is being overdressed, or too correctly dressed. If you are a young gentleman and you arrive to a Christening, or indeed a Wedding, and you are in a Morning Suit and the child's father/the Bride Groom is in a grey lounge suit you will probably offend your host. A morning suit is expensive and it is synonymous with a certain social strata and way of doing things.

If this is a society Christening you won't get into the Church without a Morning Suit, most likely. Otherwise, if you attended the couple's wedding that's probably a good rule of thumb - especially if it was a Church wedding - if you're not a godparent you're probably best off slumming it with a lounge suit, light grey for preference, and a nice double cuffed shirt in white or a pastel shade with an appropriate tie. This would be one instance where I would say a waistcoat would be appropriate if you want to look a bit more formal.

I'm a fan of waistcoats. Unless you have a belly which prevents you from seeing your belt buckle. If you know the host well, you can just ask. As PVC said, outdressing the host is considered bad manners. On the other hand if the host has no sense of style or dress, then he should be directed here. As PVC mentioned, a good rule of thumb is to assume the same dresscode as their wedding if you attended that, and if it was at a similar time in the day.

It really depends on whether it is a morning or evening event. If it is daytime, brown shoes, and greys and lighter colours are acceptable. In the evening, you should try to stick to black patent shoes, and dark lounge suits (if you go that route) or a tuxedo if it is a formal affair.

Don't wear a black tie!

With regard to shoes, a gentleman is undressed in brown leather unless he is riding or in the army. The brown shoes/blue suit combo in particular is considered to be ungentlemanly, so I am let to believe.

Not quite true. If you refer to light tan colourings, then yes. You could wear them in a business setting, or in the summer, but they're not for wear with anything else. Darker colours, Bordeaux, and blacks, are acceptable for semi-formal events. But if you go with a tuxedo or more formal, black is the only choice. Court shoes allow for a little variation, but you'd really need to be getting into character.

If you were in the military then No.1 Service Dress is a Morning Suit and No.2 is a Lounge Suit in this situation.

Errr...

Avoid school or university ties, and your jewelry should match - which means your cuff-links and tie-slide or tie chain. I don't wear the latter, personally, but if I did I would wear the slide or chain rather than a tie clip or tie pin, because they will damage your tie!

SwordsMaster?

Avoid school, club, uni, church, or any association ties. Politically motivated ones can be ok at a political rally, but nowhere else.
I'm a big fan of tie pins. There is something understated and disdainful about them. Would the Count of Monte Cristo wear a tie chain? A tie bar would be a second choice for me.


CA: No.

[Vladimir]

I read this thread imagining PVC prancing around like Tim Roth in Rob Roy.

Yes, there is a pun there but this is the Frontroom and I'll be nice.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Only if the event is before 6pm! After that it would be eveningwear time. Traditionally both weddings and christenings took place in the morning, hence the morning suit requirement. Since that is not necessarily the case anymore, you must adjust accordingly.

You're unlikely to attend a christening after 6pm, and if you did it would not usually be a formal affair.

I'm a fan of waistcoats. Unless you have a belly which prevents you from seeing your belt buckle. If you know the host well, you can just ask. As PVC said, outdressing the host is considered bad manners. On the other hand if the host has no sense of style or dress, then he should be directed here. As PVC mentioned, a good rule of thumb is to assume the same dresscode as their wedding if you attended that, and if it was at a similar time in the day.

I'm not fancy enough to pull off a waistcoat, and it's not flattering on someone lean like me. I am of the opinion that if you are overweight you should wear a waistcoat, it helps to conceal the bugle. Bottom line, if you don't look good you might as well flaunt it, with taste.

It really depends on whether it is a morning or evening event. If it is daytime, brown shoes, and greys and lighter colours are acceptable. In the evening, you should try to stick to black patent shoes, and dark lounge suits (if you go that route) or a tuxedo if it is a formal affair.

Don't wear a black tie!

You could wear a dinner suit, but you're going down a peg if you do that. A dark suit and a white shirt will do for anything, and I'm sorry but I'm dead set against brown shoes - unless it's a linen suit. With a wool suit black is the only way to go as far as I'm concerned.

I'm a big fan of tie pins. There is something understated and disdainful about them. Would the Count of Monte Cristo wear a tie chain? A tie bar would be a second choice for me.

It damages the tie - I suppose a fine enough pin might not be a problem. I would use a tie slide for preference, a tie chain is far too ostentatious.

[SwordsMaster]

Dress (Oxford) or button boots are also an option for morning occasions.

[HoreTore]

I only have plaid flannel shirts and blue jeans.

If that's not appropriate dress, then I'm not appropriate for the event anyway.

Oh, and since I'm from Mjøndalen, I always try to wear something brown as well.

[SwordsMaster]

I only have plaid flannel shirts and blue jeans.

If that's not appropriate dress, then I'm not appropriate for the event anyway.

Oh, and since I'm from Mjøndalen, I always try to wear something brown as well.

You need to expand your event horizon, then. There are , of course events without a dress code. I'm providing guidance for those where there is one, specially for the more formal ones, where people often don't know what to wear, as they tend to be relatively infrequent for most.

[Vladimir]

I only have plaid flannel shirts and blue jeans.

If that's not appropriate dress, then I'm not appropriate for the event anyway.

Oh, and since I'm from Mjøndalen, I always try to wear something brown as well.

The perfect dress for members of the working classes.

[Fragony]

The perfect dress for members of the working classes.

I dunno it kinda sounds more like an uniform ;)

[Rhyfelwyr]

Trainers, trackies and a t-shirt for everyday wear.

Replace the trackies with jeans if going out.

And I have one suit for formal occasions.

Covers everything.