Maritime abortions

[Kralizec]

No, this is not about whales.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/1...n_1939273.html

For those of you who've not heard of this before: Women on Waves is an organisition that occasionally sends out a ship under Dutch flag to countries where abortions are illegal. Women, residents of that particular country, who are involuntarily pregnant then board the ship. The ship leaves the port and travels outside national waters so that abortions (the early ones that don't require surgery) can be performed without technically violating any national law. Hence the Dutch nickname "abortion boat".

At least, that's their reputation. Early in their existence they didn't have the actual permits to dispense abortifacients. Publicly they were vague about it, but when asked they said that they did not actually perform abortions because they were not legally allowed to do so. Instead they would just sail to Ireland, Spain or whatever to troll the authorities. Since then I think they actually have gone through with providing abortions, but I could be wrong. In any case according to them the more important point is to inspire debate and convince these countries to relax their laws, since they could never hope to help more than a handful of women on any trip.

Morrocco is apparently the first islamic country they travelled to, previous destinations were all catholic countries. Predictably, the Moroccan government refused them access.

Not everyone over here is a fan of the organisation. I'd expeced that most of the detractors would be pro-life conservatives - relatively rare over here, but they exist. Surprisingly however I've seen a lot of comments saying that this organisation is "imperialist", imposing western cultural norms on other countries. Ridiculous statements, I think. I might write a post on why I think it's ridiculous if someone here agrees with them, otherwise it would be redundant.

Thoughts?

[Fragony]

One big pr-stunt, they were already there they were out for a confrontation with Marocco, NOS did a good job for a change. They should just **** off we have no business telling Marocco what to do.

Agree with him http://www.geenstijl.nl/mt/archieven...e_ab.html#more (Dutch)

[rvg]

Thoughts?

Depends entirely whether or not they provide abortions for everyone with no questions asked or whether they make the decision on the individual basis. The former is abhorrent, the latter is understandable.

[HoreTore]

Depends entirely whether or not they provide abortions for everyone with no questions asked or whether they make the decision on the individual basis. The former is abhorrent, the latter is understandable.

I'd say the latter is horrible, the former is good.

As for the boat, I love it. And I do agree with them that success isn't about performing individual abortions, but rather to provoke a debate which may make abortion legal sometime in the future.

The more conserative the country is, the more the boat is needed.

[Fragony]

I'd say the latter is horrible, the former is good.

As for the boat, I love it. And I do agree with them that success isn't about performing individual abortions, but rather to provoke a debate which may make abortion legal sometime in the future.

The more conserative the country is, the more the boat is needed.

Their country their rules. If they don't tell me how to live my life I'll politely return the favour. There are more pressing matters like abuse of women on our own soil, things like forced marriage between direct cousins, honour killings and domestic violence. But that gets you disaproving looks at party's as you just got to respect that. Easy to taunt Marocco they can't claw out your eyes. Marocco ain't all that conservative by the way it's hardly Saudi Arabia it's pretty modern

[Kralizec]

"Their country their rules"

And the organisation isn't breaking those rules. They're merely removing individuals from the jurisdiction of that country, so that abortions can be performed legally. I know some countries have tried to outlaw that, which opens another can of worms. But I digress.

Anybody who knows enough and has the money can avoid bans like these by:
A) going to a country where abortion is legal
B) find a good doctor in Morocco who performs the procedure anyway

People who are outraged by what this organisation does tend to focus a lot on that it's a Dutch organisation doing something in another part of the world. I just don't get it.

I think that states should allow abortions, at least in the early stages of pregnancy. Morocco's ban on abortion is stupid and I support everyone who tries to get around it. Wether you agree or not is a matter of opinion. Women on Waves thinks it's an important women's rights issue and therefore tries to raise awareness of the issue and offers the procedure to women in countries where it's not available. Good for them. The argument that we should remain blind for what goes on in other countries, and that this organisation shouldn't do what it does, because the Netherlands is not a paradise with absolutely no problems is ridiculous.

[Fragony]

"Their country their rules"

And the organisation isn't breaking those rules. They're merely removing individuals from the jurisdiction of that country, so that abortions can be performed legally. I know some countries have tried to outlaw that, which opens another can of worms. But I digress.

Anybody who knows enough and has the money can avoid bans like these by:
A) going to a country where abortion is legal
B) find a good doctor in Morocco who performs the procedure anyway

People who are outraged by what this organisation does tend to focus a lot on that it's a Dutch organisation doing something in another part of the world. I just don't get it.

I think that states should allow abortions, at least in the early stages of pregnancy. Morocco's ban on abortion is stupid and I support everyone who tries to get around it. Wether you agree or not is a matter of opinion. Women on Waves thinks it's an important women's rights issue and therefore tries to raise awareness of the issue and offers the procedure to women in countries where it's not available. Good for them. The argument that we should remain blind for what goes on in other countries, and that this organisation shouldn't do what it does, because the Netherlands is not a paradise with absolutely no problems is ridiculous.

Yes they are breaking rules there is such a thing as good manners which includes never imposing yourself on others, you won't find it in any lawbook no, as that's all cold formalities. They refuse to accept that things are different there and they very much ought to have better things to do if they really care about women's rights. Attention whore's who do it safe, that's what they are, go out walking a la 'Femme de le la rue' I dare them to do that, but they are probably allready in their 99% white (every series needs a colored guy) neighbourhoods. You CAN have abortions in Marocco by the way there are even specialized clinics (friend told me don't hurt me if that's bull). But what fun is that if you have to flag a territory.

[HoreTore]

Their country their rules.

I have exactly zero respect for national borders, or tyranny in general.

It is a duty for every civilized man to force countries to allow abortions. Human rights are universal, not country-specific.

[Fragony]

Did anyone ever tell you that you can be scary

[Seamus Fermanagh]

I have exactly zero respect for national borders, or tyranny in general.

It is a duty for every civilized man to force countries to allow abortions. Human rights are universal, not country-specific.

You are aware that pro-life advocates would use your last sentence -- and do -- as the reason WHY abortion should be banned.

[Ironside]

Their country their rules. If they don't tell me how to live my life I'll politely return the favour. There are more pressing matters like abuse of women on our own soil, things like forced marriage between direct cousins, honour killings and domestic violence. But that gets you disaproving looks at party's as you just got to respect that. Easy to taunt Marocco they can't claw out your eyes. Marocco ain't all that conservative by the way it's hardly Saudi Arabia it's pretty modern

Several of those matters are closely linked to repressing women's rights. One very common way to increase women's rights are to force out concessions thanks to making the current situation untenable.
And spreading this would reduce the crap immigrant women gets from their families in the Netherlands as well. True, longer time scale so not that helpful for those needing help now, but if successful, helpful for those in the future.

[Fragony]

Several of those matters are closely linked to repressing women's rights. One very common way to increase women's rights are to force out concessions thanks to making the current situation untenable.
And spreading this would reduce the crap immigrant women gets from their families in the Netherlands as well. True, longer time scale so not that helpful for those needing help now, but if successful, helpful for those in the future.

Ok you got a point there, still think it's rude though