Maritime abortions

[Fragony]

I'd say the latter is horrible, the former is good.

As for the boat, I love it. And I do agree with them that success isn't about performing individual abortions, but rather to provoke a debate which may make abortion legal sometime in the future.

The more conserative the country is, the more the boat is needed.

Their country their rules. If they don't tell me how to live my life I'll politely return the favour. There are more pressing matters like abuse of women on our own soil, things like forced marriage between direct cousins, honour killings and domestic violence. But that gets you disaproving looks at party's as you just got to respect that. Easy to taunt Marocco they can't claw out your eyes. Marocco ain't all that conservative by the way it's hardly Saudi Arabia it's pretty modern

[Kralizec]

"Their country their rules"

And the organisation isn't breaking those rules. They're merely removing individuals from the jurisdiction of that country, so that abortions can be performed legally. I know some countries have tried to outlaw that, which opens another can of worms. But I digress.

Anybody who knows enough and has the money can avoid bans like these by:
A) going to a country where abortion is legal
B) find a good doctor in Morocco who performs the procedure anyway

People who are outraged by what this organisation does tend to focus a lot on that it's a Dutch organisation doing something in another part of the world. I just don't get it.

I think that states should allow abortions, at least in the early stages of pregnancy. Morocco's ban on abortion is stupid and I support everyone who tries to get around it. Wether you agree or not is a matter of opinion. Women on Waves thinks it's an important women's rights issue and therefore tries to raise awareness of the issue and offers the procedure to women in countries where it's not available. Good for them. The argument that we should remain blind for what goes on in other countries, and that this organisation shouldn't do what it does, because the Netherlands is not a paradise with absolutely no problems is ridiculous.

[Fragony]

"Their country their rules"

And the organisation isn't breaking those rules. They're merely removing individuals from the jurisdiction of that country, so that abortions can be performed legally. I know some countries have tried to outlaw that, which opens another can of worms. But I digress.

Anybody who knows enough and has the money can avoid bans like these by:
A) going to a country where abortion is legal
B) find a good doctor in Morocco who performs the procedure anyway

People who are outraged by what this organisation does tend to focus a lot on that it's a Dutch organisation doing something in another part of the world. I just don't get it.

I think that states should allow abortions, at least in the early stages of pregnancy. Morocco's ban on abortion is stupid and I support everyone who tries to get around it. Wether you agree or not is a matter of opinion. Women on Waves thinks it's an important women's rights issue and therefore tries to raise awareness of the issue and offers the procedure to women in countries where it's not available. Good for them. The argument that we should remain blind for what goes on in other countries, and that this organisation shouldn't do what it does, because the Netherlands is not a paradise with absolutely no problems is ridiculous.

Yes they are breaking rules there is such a thing as good manners which includes never imposing yourself on others, you won't find it in any lawbook no, as that's all cold formalities. They refuse to accept that things are different there and they very much ought to have better things to do if they really care about women's rights. Attention whore's who do it safe, that's what they are, go out walking a la 'Femme de le la rue' I dare them to do that, but they are probably allready in their 99% white (every series needs a colored guy) neighbourhoods. You CAN have abortions in Marocco by the way there are even specialized clinics (friend told me don't hurt me if that's bull). But what fun is that if you have to flag a territory.

[Kralizec]

The organisation helps people avoiding a stupid law without risking criminal prosecution. Good manners have nothing to do with it, what matters is wether they crossed the law or not. Of course you don't have to like it.

So according to you, noboby should do (volunteer) work for an idealist cause unless they grew up in multi-racial slums? I don't know wether the members of the organisation are from privileged backgrounds, and I don't think it's important. I really don't see why they deserve all these personal attacks. I can only imagine that you lash out against them because you don't agree with their ideas on abortion. And that you ironically defend their culture because you agree with it in this case.

Yes, you can have abortions in Morocco if you know the right people. And maybe there are specialised clinics for it. But that's despite the fact that it's illegal. Presumably, the women who would have visited the abortion boat are unmarried women with not enough money or who don't have the right connections to dodge the law in their own country except by falling off the stairs or hiring some hack to "help" them in a dark alley.

[Fragony]

'Yes, you can have abortions in Morocco if you know the right people. And maybe there are specialised clinics for it. But that's despite the fact that it's illegal. Presumably, the women who would have visited the abortion boat are unmarried women with not enough money or who don't have the right connections to dodge the law in their own country except by falling off the stairs or hiring some hack to "help" them in a dark alley.'

common man they are a bunch of narcistic b*tches, I wonder how long how long they would be absolutely horrified once one of the women they really really just wanted to help gets murdered by her family.

[Greyblades]

Yes they are breaking rules there is such a thing as good manners which includes never imposing yourself on others, you won't find it in any lawbook no, as that's all cold formalities.

The rest of your post is opinion that I disagree with and mostly ignore, but what rules are they breaking presicely and who are they imposing on? They park themselves in port and arrange treat any woman who shows up willingly outside of the teritorial boundaries. They're not breaking any laws or they would have been arrested already, and, even ignoring that thier actions cost the governments or locals nothing, there are apparantly several moroccans/irish/spanish women want them there so they aren't exactly imposing.

[Fragony]

The rest of your post is opinion that I disagree with and mostly ignore, but what rules are they breaking presicely and who are they imposing on? They park themselves in port and arrange treat any woman who shows up willingly outside of the teritorial boundaries. They're not breaking any laws or they would have been arrested already, and, even ignoring that thier actions cost the governments or locals nothing, there are apparantly several moroccans/irish/spanish women want them there so they aren't exactly imposing.

They might not be breaking any formal laws but they are breaking promises they can't keep, it's cruel and senseless and very egocentric.

[Greyblades]

They might not be breaking any formal laws but they are breaking promises they can't keep, it's cruel and senseless and very egocentric.

"Breaking promises they cant keep"? What does that even mean? And how the is it cruel?

[Fragony]

"Breaking promises they cant keep"? What does that even mean? And how the is it cruel?

You see anything changing there soon?

[HoreTore]

Their country their rules.

I have exactly zero respect for national borders, or tyranny in general.

It is a duty for every civilized man to force countries to allow abortions. Human rights are universal, not country-specific.

[Fragony]

Did anyone ever tell you that you can be scary

[HoreTore]

When you join the UN, you explicitly agree that it's OK for other nations to meddle with your "internal affairs", like your (lack of) democracy, your laws, etc.

Morocco is a member of the UN. I see no problem.

[Strike For The South]

I lean towards imperialism. I really don't have a problem with what they are doing but I just know if I met these people in real life they would be overflowing with burden.

The west still sees other cultures as primitive and backwards and still has the same need to bring them up to speed

Horetore is probably the most xenophobic, in that sense

[HoreTore]

I lean towards imperialism. I really don't have a problem with what they are doing but I just know if I met these people in real life they would be overflowing with burden.

The west still sees other cultures as primitive and backwards and still has the same need to bring them up to speed

Horetore is probably the most xenophobic, in that sense

Hah!

Tyrannic ruler =/= general population.

If a Moroccan woman wants an abortion, saying that she should be able to have one is not xenophobic, imperialist or whatever. Her culture is not backwards, it is her culture which says it's fine. To put it into your argument: all I'm saying is that the woman in questions should be free to do as is her culture, without interference from those who wre of a different culture.

Also, the woman-hating antiabortion folks are the same all over the world, and the less influence they have, the better.




But kudos for the red herring you threw in my face, of course

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Hah!

Tyrannic ruler =/= general population.

If a Moroccan woman wants an abortion, saying that she should be able to have one is not xenophobic, imperialist or whatever. Her culture is not backwards, it is her culture which says it's fine. To put it into your argument: all I'm saying is that the woman in questions should be free to do as is her culture, without interference from those who wre of a different culture.

Also, the woman-hating antiabortion folks are the same all over the world, and the less influence they have, the better.




But kudos for the red herring you threw in my face, of course

You're a terrible person because you believe you are right.

The idea a woman has a "right" to an abortion is merely a cultural construct - Moroccan women who want abortions are not of a "different culture" to those who think nobody should ever have an abortion.

Moroccans have the right to self determination - over here we bankrupt people who refuse to accommodate homosexuals in their hotels, there they deny women abortions.

In every society there are winners and loses - I can tell you as a Christian in a publicly secular society, I'm not very happy, if I want to be accepted in certain places or in certain careers I have to pretend to be something I'm not.

Sound like any other minority group you know?

[Greyblades]

Did anyone ever tell you that you can be scary

Funny, I have been thinking the same thing about you for 2 years.

[Fragony]

Funny, I have been thinking the same thing about you for 2 years.

Oh shoo

[Seamus Fermanagh]

I have exactly zero respect for national borders, or tyranny in general.

It is a duty for every civilized man to force countries to allow abortions. Human rights are universal, not country-specific.

You are aware that pro-life advocates would use your last sentence -- and do -- as the reason WHY abortion should be banned.

[HoreTore]

You are aware that pro-life advocates would use your last sentence -- and do -- as the reason WHY abortion should be banned.

"human"

[Ironside]

Their country their rules. If they don't tell me how to live my life I'll politely return the favour. There are more pressing matters like abuse of women on our own soil, things like forced marriage between direct cousins, honour killings and domestic violence. But that gets you disaproving looks at party's as you just got to respect that. Easy to taunt Marocco they can't claw out your eyes. Marocco ain't all that conservative by the way it's hardly Saudi Arabia it's pretty modern

Several of those matters are closely linked to repressing women's rights. One very common way to increase women's rights are to force out concessions thanks to making the current situation untenable.
And spreading this would reduce the crap immigrant women gets from their families in the Netherlands as well. True, longer time scale so not that helpful for those needing help now, but if successful, helpful for those in the future.

[Fragony]

Several of those matters are closely linked to repressing women's rights. One very common way to increase women's rights are to force out concessions thanks to making the current situation untenable.
And spreading this would reduce the crap immigrant women gets from their families in the Netherlands as well. True, longer time scale so not that helpful for those needing help now, but if successful, helpful for those in the future.

Ok you got a point there, still think it's rude though

[HoreTore]

Ok you got a point there, still think it's rude though

Rudeness and hate is what drives the world towards a more peaceful and tolerant place.

[Fragony]

Rudeness and hate is what drives the world towards a more peaceful and tolerant place.

Did someone ever tell you t-

Oh screw it ;)

[Montmorency]

Rudeness and hate is what drives the world towards a more peaceful and tolerant place.

This is why we need to resurrect Hitler.

[Fragony]

This is why we need to resurrect Hitler.

You must have taken the oath, 'I solemny swear I am boring as '