A fine choice for the House Committee for Science, Space, and Technology

[rvg]

...This kind of belief about animals is sick, disgusting, and much much more dangerous than believing in creationism. Considering animals the equal to people would be bad enough but these people often like animals more than they do people. Scientists (religious and atheist) who want to do animal testing to help create medicines are often stymied by animal rights protesters who have a sway in universities that religious people could only dream of. It's as bad as the prevention of stem cell research by people who have religious beliefs about the soul...

Couldn't agree more. People who put the lives of animals on par or above human lives are quite simply monsters. Their animal worship oftentimes goes hand in hand with utter contempt for humanity, and it's utterly despicable: I would refuse to shake hands with a man who would donate money to an animal shelter instead of, say, giving money to a program that feeds hungry children.

[Montmorency]

Then again, we are animals as well. Why should we give ourselves special treatment? Just because it's more conducive to widespread proliferation?

It always comes down to exceptionalism...

So what does it mean when people act like science and religion are opposed?

Frankly, PVC gives it a better treatment than you.

But essentially, you can't be very far to the left and not think the above is nonsense

So all lefties look to Science for values and moral guidance? I contest.

What we lack is a similar understanding about science.

Let this be a major point of contention between us. There is no such "understanding" concerning religion in America.

This kind of belief about animals is sick, disgusting, and much much more dangerous than believing in creationism. Considering animals the equal to people would be bad enough but these people often like animals more than they do people. Scientists (religious and atheist) who want to do animal testing to help create medicines are often stymied by animal rights protesters who have a sway in universities that religious people could only dream of. It's as bad as the prevention of stem cell research by people who have religious beliefs about the soul.

Allow them to vent while quietly ignoring them. Tangentially, I find it interesting that I hated such individuals - as you seemingly do - most at the height of my socialist phase.

people overestimate their worth and benefit

If the hard sciences can be said to have any worth and benefit, they must be considered maximal.

to reach the level of the ancients.

Look at modern philosophy, for example, and you can easily find statements like "It is no more wrong to slap a baby than it is to slap a horse, assuming you slap the horse hard enough".

Are you sure this is not a red herring?

The true study of the "big questions" must come from one's own life experience and the experience of others.

What are these questions? Anyway, this sounds like platitudinous pop pablum to me.

the believe in nihilism

I don't see how it could be possible for a living human to believe in nihilism.

historical narrative

History is by definition a narrative. Do you stomach only chronologies? "Tell me everything or tell me nothing"?

and on moral issues the most modern thinkers are the best

It is no less simplistic to say that the most ancient thinkers are the best.

Most of what I haven't directly quoted or alluded to should check out, I suppose.

[HoreTore]

This thread has blown the absurd-o-meter.

I have Navaros-nostalgia.

[Papewaio]

IMDHO you will find some people who are not religious at all. They may or may not understand science.

Similarly there are those who are deeply religious and deep scientific thinkers.

Philosophy =/= Science

Also due to statistical limitations Social Sciences lag behind physical sciences. Until we have a mole of humans social sciences will be at a disadvantage.

=][=
Creationism, Greenpeace, PETA are all lacking in critical thinking. They appeal to literal or emotional followers, who are part of the herd animal. Broken clocks get things right occasionally, it does not mean I have to respect their poorly thought out ideas.

Georges Lemaître was one of the greatest thinkers of the 20th century. Religion is good when it is used to open up minds, it is terrible when it is used to stop thinking.

[Strike For The South]

The term gadfly comes to mind

I think I will go outside and speak to my animals

[HoreTore]

Couldn't agree more. People who put the lives of animals on par or above human lives are quite simply monsters. Their animal worship oftentimes goes hand in hand with utter contempt for humanity, and it's utterly despicable: I would refuse to shake hands with a man who would donate money to an animal shelter instead of, say, giving money to a program that feeds hungry children.

So....

Dog owners are evil and despicable? There are plenty of hungry kids in the world, yet they spend their money on dogfood instead of the kids?

I doubt you'll have many chances to refuse a handshake, I sincerely doubt many people are willing to shake hands with someone who spews such drivel.

[rvg]

So....

Dog owners are evil and despicable? There are plenty of hungry kids in the world, yet they spend their money on dogfood instead of the kids?

You said it, not I.

[Beskar]

I give money to the RSPCA and I also give money to Oxfam.

Animals do have rights, they have the right not to be tortured and exploited. If you adopt the religious caretaker approach, God gave you the mandate to look after the world, not house animals in disgusting conditions to rot, suffer and cause misery. Basic rights to animals is essential basis of a moral society.