The Banality of Heroism

[HoreTore]

Old story of a soldier jumping upon a grenade to save his fellow soldiers from death is often a example of heroism. Might be brave and considered "stupid" in the sense of the action to one self, but it is the whole idea of putting other people before yourself, even as for personal risk.

That's a great example to use. If I remember correctly, it was an american soldier on patrol in Iraq, right?

So, the question is why did he throw himself on that grenade? It must be assumed that it was an instinctive action, I can't imagine him thinking anything, much less weighing the options. Was it a special character trait, or was it something that many others, if not most, would have done if put in that same situation?

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

That's a great example to use. If I remember correctly, it was an american soldier on patrol in Iraq, right?

So, the question is why did he throw himself on that grenade? It must be assumed that it was an instinctive action, I can't imagine him thinking anything, much less weighing the options. Was it a special character trait, or was it something that many others, if not most, would have done if put in that same situation?

There was a British Marine who calmly lay down on top of an IED in Iraq - he calculated that he would probably survive as he was wearing his large pack - he did.

But only just, if he had laid slightly lower, one of the fragments would have gone through his neck.

Then there's the guy who went back into he APC to pull his section clear while it was being strafed by an American A-10. Got the George Cross for that one, as Americans aren't the "enemy".

[Hooahguy]

That's a great example to use. If I remember correctly, it was an american soldier on patrol in Iraq, right?

So, the question is why did he throw himself on that grenade? It must be assumed that it was an instinctive action, I can't imagine him thinking anything, much less weighing the options. Was it a special character trait, or was it something that many others, if not most, would have done if put in that same situation?

Its happened more than once:

On December 19, 1941 at the Battle of Hong Kong, Canadian Army Company Sergeant Major John Robert Osborn jumped on a grenade, sacrificing himself to save his men. He was posthumously awarded the Victoria Cross.

On November 7, 1943 at Bougainville, Marine Sergeant Herbert J. Thomas, Jr deliberately fell on a grenade, sacrificing himself protecting nearby Marines.

On September 1, 1950, near Yongsan, Korea, U.S. Army Private First Class David M. Smith noticed an enemy grenade lobbed into his company's emplacement. Pfc. Smith shouted a warning to his comrades and, fully aware of the odds against him, flung himself upon it. Although he was mortally wounded in this display of valor, his act saved 5 men from injury or death.

On February 11, 1954, IDF private Nathan Elbaz was disarming grenades when he noticed one of the grenade's safeties had slipped. He grabbed the grenade and ran from the tent but realized he wouldn't be able to throw the grenade away without harming some of his friends, so he smothered the explosion with his body.[3]

On February 23, 1971, a M35 2½ ton cargo truck was ambushed by a squad of NVA soldiers near An Khê. At one point during the firefight, an NVA soldier threw a fragmentation grenade into the truck's compartment. 21-year-old Specialist Four Larry G. Dahl was the only occupant who heard the grenade land into the truck. Realizing that there was not sufficient time to return it, he immediately threw himself on top of the grenade, saving his comrades' lives but at the cost of his own. Dahl was posthumously awarded the Medal of Honor.

On April 14, 2004, near Husaybah, Iraq, Jason Dunham used his body and helmet to shield others from a grenade explosion - but died shortly afterward from his injuries.

On July 26, 2006, IDF Major Roi Klein, during the Battle of Bint Jbeil jumped on a grenade thrown into the house where Klein and his unit were present and stopped the explosion with his body.

On September 29, 2006 in Iraq, United States Navy SEAL Michael A. Monsoor, died after falling on a grenade.[1]

On Dec. 4, 2006 in the Iraqi capital Baghdad, 19 year old U.S. Army Spc. Ross A. McGinnis was killed instantly when he used his body to smother a grenade, saving the lives of four nearby soldiers.

In 2008 near Sangin in Afghanistan Matthew Croucher used his body and rucksack to pin a grenade to the floor. Suffering "just a nose bleed" as a result [2].

From Wikipedia.

Why did these people do what they did? If I had to guess, it was because they loved their fellow soldiers more than they loved themselves.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

I think a more interesting question at this point is why HoreTore wants to banalise heroism - the most likely answer seems to be that as a socialist he doesn't believe in extraordinary individuals, and is therefore trying to make heroism "ordinary" so that it will fit into his worldview.

[Hooahguy]

If heroism was ordinary, society wouldn't make it into a big deal when it occurs.

[The Stranger]

heroism can be ordinary as in ordinary people doing something extraordinary (or under extraordinary circumstances) as opposed to a hero being an extra ordinary person doing something in a situation ordinary people would not. and thus society would still make a big deal out of it.

my opinion is that they are both valid and both occur. sometimes a person is just extraordinary and he does stuff normal people would not do or achieve, for example Nelson Mandela or gandhi. Sometimes it is an extra ordinary situation and an ordinary person does something not all but still more others would do and pull off, like saving someone from a wreckage or from drowning.

[Montmorency]

Is there more to heroism than "socially integrative behavior under duress"?

Whether the single mom working three jobs or the soldier giving up his spot on the chopper out of the kessel...

But the more contested definitions are interesting: what about deliberately socially disruptive actions, and not necessarily under duress (from more than a chronically 'degenerate' society, at least).

On these terms, the successful bomb-lobber seems distinct from the previous examples. Is there another formulation that would link them?

As for the causes of heroism, well, that's a matter of value: what the hero values - this informs action - and what the labelers value - this informs the selective appellation of "hero".

In sum: there's nothing banal about the unusual or exceptional - by definition; on the other hand, the roots are...

[Hooahguy]

As for the causes of heroism, well, that's a matter of value: what the hero values - this informs action - and what the labelers value - this informs the selective appellation of "hero".

...which then explains why if you ask most soldiers who are labelled a hero by society if they consider themselves heroes, they will most likely answer that they do not.

[HoreTore]

I think a more interesting question at this point is why HoreTore wants to banalise heroism - the most likely answer seems to be that as a socialist he doesn't believe in extraordinary individuals, and is therefore trying to make heroism "ordinary" so that it will fit into his worldview.

I am always fascinated by your incredible ability to make things personal.

Once again though, that accusation belongs in the dustbin.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

I am always fascinated by your incredible ability to make things personal.

Once again though, that accusation belongs in the dustbin.

You made a post I consider exceptionally weird - working out why you did is more interesting than your OP.

[HoreTore]

I can certainly answer that question:

Because I was thinking about Hannah Aarendt in the shower, specifically whether or not it can be applied broader. Heroism seems like a good starting point.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

I can certainly answer that question:

Because I was thinking about Hannah Aarendt in the shower, specifically whether or not it can be applied broader. Heroism seems like a good starting point.

Which completely misses the point of heroics - as others have shown.

Why would you even think heroism could be banal?

[Kralizec]

Because I was thinking about Hannah Aarendt in the shower

Whatever makes you happy

As for your original question, now that I think about it, I guess there's something to say for the position that most human individuals are capable of both doing great evil or good deeds, depending on their situation and their state of mind.

I imagine that some heroic deeds were done in the heat of the moment, and the person doing it might not have done the heroic thing if he had time to ponder his actions. And also the other way around - people who are naturally cautious and timid, but with strong willpower, might be able to sacrifce themselves after making a conscious decision.

I'm not sure if it's plausible that someone would by his own initiative sacrifice himself because he thought it was expected of him as opposed to genuine altruism. I wouldn't rule it out.

Heroic deeds are still admirable even if you take a down-to-earth approach and examine the reasons and motivations, of course.