Org Mobile Site
Thread: National or European
Originally Posted by rvg:
I'm not sure what you mean.
The latino vote. The black vote. The Cuban vote. etc, etc. I'm not sure if there's still an Italian vote, Irish vote, German vote, etc.I'm not sure what you mean.
I've not seen the same behavior of naming and focusing, even with the larger and older immigrant waves in Sweden (that is people that can now vote), say Serb/Croats/Bosnians, Iranians and Irakians.
In a way, you're what Horetore is wanting Europe to be: US=Europe with subgroup=country.
I would say that Scandinavian is a stronger self-identification than European in Sweden.
Originally Posted by Ironside:
In a way, you're what Horetore is wanting Europe to be: US=Europe with subgroup=country.
Is it impossible to post questions or arguments that interest you here, without everyone else assuming that it's your own opinion?In a way, you're what Horetore is wanting Europe to be: US=Europe with subgroup=country.
A shared cultural/historic heritage is important. Frenchmen have spilled more english blood than they have chinese. And yet, if they do not consider themselves to be in the same boat as the chinese (when the relationship is more or less coloured by indifference), why should they see themselves associated with the english when that relationship has been marked by conflict?
Originally Posted by SwordsMaster:
A shared cultural/historic heritage is important. Frenchmen have spilled more english blood than they have chinese. And yet, if they do not consider themselves to be in the same boat as the chinese (when the relationship is more or less coloured by indifference), why should they see themselves associated with the english when that relationship has been marked by conflict?
War is a sound basis for intimacy. Of course, after we kill a lot of Chinese I would happily enter a political union with them as well. A shared cultural/historic heritage is important. Frenchmen have spilled more english blood than they have chinese. And yet, if they do not consider themselves to be in the same boat as the chinese (when the relationship is more or less coloured by indifference), why should they see themselves associated with the english when that relationship has been marked by conflict?
...
The 100 years war was more of a dynastic conflict than anything else. "French" troops fought on both sides. Around the same time the low lands were disunited and frequently at war. They're mostly okay with eachother now and are called the Netherlands. Spain, Italy, Romania and others did not exist as single states either.
European nations have a long and turbulent history of dealings with eachother, including but not limited to warfare. I think that people tend to focus on the differences and take the similarities for granted without even noticing them. The shared culture between European countries is greater than that between the various ethnic groups of India.
I've traveled through a decent amount of European countries and in my experience I find it easier to relate to the people there of my age than I do with Dutch people of older generations. Provided that they speak either English or German, because otherwise I can't talk to them- but nowadays most people below the age of 30 do.
Originally Posted by Kralizec:
War is a sound basis for intimacy. Of course, after we kill a lot of Chinese I would happily enter a political union with them as well.
...
The 100 years war was more of a dynastic conflict than anything else. "French" troops fought on both sides. Around the same time the low lands were disunited and frequently at war. They're mostly okay with eachother now and are called the Netherlands. Spain, Italy, Romania and others did not exist as single states either.
European nations have a long and turbulent history of dealings with eachother, including but not limited to warfare. I think that people tend to focus on the differences and take the similarities for granted without even noticing them. The shared culture between European countries is greater than that between the various ethnic groups of India.
I've traveled through a decent amount of European countries and in my experience I find it easier to relate to the people there of my age than I do with Dutch people of older generations. Provided that they speak either English or German, because otherwise I can't talk to them- but nowadays most people below the age of 30 do.
Fair enough - but this always looks different from an English perspective, where the Lion has ruled for almost a thousand years - before that we had near 300 years of the Wyvern.War is a sound basis for intimacy. Of course, after we kill a lot of Chinese I would happily enter a political union with them as well.
...
The 100 years war was more of a dynastic conflict than anything else. "French" troops fought on both sides. Around the same time the low lands were disunited and frequently at war. They're mostly okay with eachother now and are called the Netherlands. Spain, Italy, Romania and others did not exist as single states either.
European nations have a long and turbulent history of dealings with eachother, including but not limited to warfare. I think that people tend to focus on the differences and take the similarities for granted without even noticing them. The shared culture between European countries is greater than that between the various ethnic groups of India.
I've traveled through a decent amount of European countries and in my experience I find it easier to relate to the people there of my age than I do with Dutch people of older generations. Provided that they speak either English or German, because otherwise I can't talk to them- but nowadays most people below the age of 30 do.
Scandinavia has existed as a region for that long, but no country in mainland Europe is as old.
You pointed to the unity of the Netherlands - which has been achieved after you fought out your differences. From where I'm sitting we've got at least two more wars to come between France, Germany and Britain.
Originally Posted by Philipvs Vallindervs Calicvla:
Fair enough - but this always looks different from an English perspective, where the Lion has ruled for almost a thousand years - before that we had near 300 years of the Wyvern.
Scandinavia has existed as a region for that long, but no country in mainland Europe is as old.
You pointed to the unity of the Netherlands - which has been achieved after you fought out your differences. From where I'm sitting we've got at least two more wars to come between France, Germany and Britain.
I honestly don't. Why do you think that?Fair enough - but this always looks different from an English perspective, where the Lion has ruled for almost a thousand years - before that we had near 300 years of the Wyvern.
Scandinavia has existed as a region for that long, but no country in mainland Europe is as old.
You pointed to the unity of the Netherlands - which has been achieved after you fought out your differences. From where I'm sitting we've got at least two more wars to come between France, Germany and Britain.
When I see how much interconnection there is between, say, France and England these days, I find it hard to see it possible to drum up the amount of anger and hatred towards the other nation that needed for a war.
You can't wage war without demonizing your enemy. And doing that get's exceedingly hard with today's access to information.
Originally Posted by Tiaexz:
Imagine if I was typical. What a world.
More wars? Doubtful. A war would simply be idiotic and whoever takes part will lose, there cannot be a winner.
I think cue actual shiver running the planet is scarier, but not by much. shiver at this end - the idea of myImagine if I was typical. What a world.
More wars? Doubtful. A war would simply be idiotic and whoever takes part will lose, there cannot be a winner.
Originally Posted by Kadagar_AV:
I honestly don't. Why do you think that?
When I see how much interconnection there is between, say, France and England these days, I find it hard to see it possible to drum up the amount of anger and hatred towards the other nation that needed for a war.
You can't wage war without demonizing your enemy. And doing that get's exceedingly hard with today's access to information.
I think you'll find that there is always more room for war - nobody thought Germany and Britain would go to war in 1914, the level of interconnectedness made it absurd - but it happened, and it started without demonisation, that came later.I honestly don't. Why do you think that?
When I see how much interconnection there is between, say, France and England these days, I find it hard to see it possible to drum up the amount of anger and hatred towards the other nation that needed for a war.
You can't wage war without demonizing your enemy. And doing that get's exceedingly hard with today's access to information.
It sounds to me like a take on traditional, racist European Nationalism that has expanded to include as many people of European descent as possible. Sounds like more racism to me.
You Euros really gotta come over to my side of the pond and see how much better it can be.
Sure, we got our racists, but the majority of people here do not strongly identify with a racial heritage like you Euros do.
You Euros really gotta come over to my side of the pond and see how much better it can be.
Sure, we got our racists, but the majority of people here do not strongly identify with a racial heritage like you Euros do.Originally Posted by Vuk:
It sounds to me like a take on traditional, racist European Nationalism that has expanded to include as many people of European descent as possible. Sounds like more racism to me.
You Euros really gotta come over to my side of the pond and see how much better it can be. Sure, we got our racists, but the majority of people here do not strongly identify with a racial heritage like you Euros do.
Are you geographically divided by culture and language?It sounds to me like a take on traditional, racist European Nationalism that has expanded to include as many people of European descent as possible. Sounds like more racism to me.
You Euros really gotta come over to my side of the pond and see how much better it can be.
Sure, we got our racists, but the majority of people here do not strongly identify with a racial heritage like you Euros do.Originally Posted by Kadagar_AV:
Are you geographically divided by culture and language?
No, but you Euros don't just identify by culture and language, but also very strongly by race. That is why you are so excepting of spreading your loyalty to a wider Europe, where every nation therein shares a majority white race, but not a common culture or language. Are you geographically divided by culture and language?
European people in the last century are and have been very prone to racial indentification.
Originally Posted by Vuk:
No, but you Euros don't just identify by culture and language, but also very strongly by race. That is why you are so excepting of spreading your loyalty to a wider Europe, where every nation therein shares a majority white race, but not a common culture or language.
European people in the last century are and have been very prone to racial indentification.
Are you often making stuff up as you go along, or is this thread somehow special?No, but you Euros don't just identify by culture and language, but also very strongly by race. That is why you are so excepting of spreading your loyalty to a wider Europe, where every nation therein shares a majority white race, but not a common culture or language.
European people in the last century are and have been very prone to racial indentification.
I call your conclusions coco as coco puffs.
Originally Posted by Vuk:
It sounds to me like a take on traditional, racist European Nationalism that has expanded to include as many people of European descent as possible. Sounds like more racism to me.
You Euros really gotta come over to my side of the pond and see how much better it can be. Sure, we got our racists, but the majority of people here do not strongly identify with a racial heritage like you Euros do.
I am.... Baffled.It sounds to me like a take on traditional, racist European Nationalism that has expanded to include as many people of European descent as possible. Sounds like more racism to me.
You Euros really gotta come over to my side of the pond and see how much better it can be.
Sure, we got our racists, but the majority of people here do not strongly identify with a racial heritage like you Euros do.And kinda amazed at how you linked "identity" with "race". No need for me to explain it though, pvc did the job well.
Originally Posted by Vuk:
It sounds to me like a take on traditional, racist European Nationalism that has expanded to include as many people of European descent as possible. Sounds like more racism to me.
You Euros really gotta come over to my side of the pond and see how much better it can be. Sure, we got our racists, but the majority of people here do not strongly identify with a racial heritage like you Euros do.
Most of America still identifes strongly with the hyphenIt sounds to me like a take on traditional, racist European Nationalism that has expanded to include as many people of European descent as possible. Sounds like more racism to me.
You Euros really gotta come over to my side of the pond and see how much better it can be.
Sure, we got our racists, but the majority of people here do not strongly identify with a racial heritage like you Euros do.Originally Posted by Ironside:
The latino vote. The black vote. The Cuban vote. etc, etc. I'm not sure if there's still an Italian vote, Irish vote, German vote, etc.
I've not seen the same behavior of naming and focusing, even with the larger and older immigrant waves in Sweden (that is people that can now vote), say Serb/Croats/Bosnians, Iranians and Irakians.
Statisticians and campaign managers push those labels and terms. The average American cares nothing about your specific ethnic background.The latino vote. The black vote. The Cuban vote. etc, etc. I'm not sure if there's still an Italian vote, Irish vote, German vote, etc.
I've not seen the same behavior of naming and focusing, even with the larger and older immigrant waves in Sweden (that is people that can now vote), say Serb/Croats/Bosnians, Iranians and Irakians.
\\
Originally Posted by :
Statisticians and campaign managers push those labels and terms. The average American cares nothing about your specific ethnic background.
I was walking through Harlem the other day.Statisticians and campaign managers push those labels and terms. The average American cares nothing about your specific ethnic background.
A hulking Latino teen exclaimed to his buddy, as I passed the two of them on the street, "Holy
, a Ruskie!"I'm not even Russian...
Cheery anecdotes aside, your college peers are not average Americans...
Originally Posted by Montmorency:
I was walking through Harlem the other day.
A hulking Latino teen exclaimed to his buddy, as I passed the two of them on the street, "Holy, a Ruskie!"
I'm not even Russian...
Cheery anecdotes aside, your college peers are not average Americans...
Your anecdotes are not representative of average americans... No one I have worked with cared about ethnic backgrounds, and when I say worked I mean a real job, with real people.I was walking through Harlem the other day.
A hulking Latino teen exclaimed to his buddy, as I passed the two of them on the street, "Holy
, a Ruskie!"I'm not even Russian...
Cheery anecdotes aside, your college peers are not average Americans...
Originally Posted by :
Your anecdotes are not representative of average americans... No one I have worked with cared about ethnic backgrounds, and when I say worked I mean a real job, with real people.
But yours are? Your anecdotes are not representative of average americans... No one I have worked with cared about ethnic backgrounds, and when I say worked I mean a real job, with real people.
I can assure you that people pay quite a bit of attention to ethnicity.
Originally Posted by Montmorency:
But yours are?
I can assure you that people pay quite a bit of attention to ethnicity.
Not claiming mine are representative just throwing out my experiences since you seemed content in using yours to back a point.But yours are?
I can assure you that people pay quite a bit of attention to ethnicity.
I'm sure people pay attention, but I have doubts that people go the next step in defining others by said ethnicity. But then again, people made a stink about Obama's ethnic background, so perhaps you are right.
I distrust Germans
Is that where I put this answer?
Is that where I put this answer?
Thread Ratings provided by
Thread Ratings (Lite) -
vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2025 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2025 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2025 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO