Academy of Elemental Magic [Concluded]

[seireikhaan]

KNEEL BEFORE YOUR GOD

[seireikhaan]

Also of note, I believe this absolves my college of scum- we discussed our plan quite ahead of time in quicktopic.

[TinCow]

Also of note, I believe this absolves my college of scum- we discussed our plan quite ahead of time in quicktopic.

Noted.

[seireikhaan]

So, down to actual business. I'm quite surprised the scum went so hard for me. Three powerful attacks in one night was admittingly one more than I expected to get. Quite funny nonetheless.

Vote: Bsmith

He is the best lead I've gotten yet. He bears corruption, and his strongest element is air, which appeared in the writeup. I don't know if his corruption is necessarily high enough that he is scum for sure, but it's the best lead I've gotten. His thread behavior reinforces my belief here- he's made a whole lot of harmless votes, between a long-after-meaningful bandwagon on NinjaCow, a non-vote, and an abstain.

As well, I think I've established myself as someone trustworthy enough for this stealing item. Anything this strong should be given to someone who won't abuse it.

vote: issaikhaan for spectral hand

[Visor]

BSmith hasn't been very active anywhere (he's busy), and corruption isn't an indicator of scum (I started off with some naturally, due to my role.)

I'm happy to vote for him, but I'm not sold.

Vote: Riedquat

[seireikhaan]

BSmith hasn't been very active anywhere (he's busy), and corruption isn't an indicator of scum (I started off with some naturally, due to my role.)

I'm happy to vote for him, but I'm not sold.

Vote: Riedquat

Also, out with it. What role? Why did you start with corruption? You can't just say something like that and expect me to not be curious. Corruption is something scum have- however, as you noted, it is not a guarantee of guilt. But I, as of now, do not know anyone town-oriented who actually does possess corruption.

[Visor]

Also, out with it. What role? Why did you start with corruption? You can't just say something like that and expect me to not be curious. Corruption is something scum have- however, as you noted, it is not a guarantee of guilt. But I, as of now, do not know anyone town-oriented who actually does possess corruption.

I'm a "North Man". Anyone who has a similar or the same role as me can confirm.

[White_eyes:D]

Unvote:Kennigit Vote:Bsmith

There is really only one item to steal of any worth, and it is only good for offensive actions as far as I am told. Would you really need a steal item?

[Visor]

Unvote:Kennigit Vote:Bsmith

There is really only one item to steal of any worth, and it is only good for offensive actions as far as I am told. Would you really need a steal item?

I bet the scumbags have an item. You might also be able to steal the college item.

[White_eyes:D]

I bet the scumbags have an item. You might also be able to steal the college item.

Then the Spectral Hand is sold to Khaan.

[seireikhaan]

Unvote:Kennigit Vote:Bsmith

There is really only one item to steal of any worth, and it is only good for offensive actions as far as I am told. Would you really need a steal item?

No, I don't need to steal, and that's basically the whole point. I am proven innocent with no motive to steal something actually valuable away from someone else. This way we can make sure a scum doesn't get it.

[Kennigit]

Also of note, I believe this absolves my college of scum- we discussed our plan quite ahead of time in quicktopic.

I admit I haven't been following the details of this game super close and am catching up mostly now, but I don't follow that or how in the past you said you are "98% certain" or whatever.

There are at least 2 scum factions and it seems certainly one of them doesn't have the goal to simply kill everyone around. In addition, I'm quite happy in asserting that the scum will happily go along with "let's not follow our VC of eliminating another college and simply stay alive guiz, this peace treaty is da best!". The scum can easily have items that make them scale faster than a townie (i.e. gain more XP or corruption), and giving more time before starting the college war disproportionately helps the scum.

Now obviously protecting you worked tonight and is all good, but considering all the attacks have been stacked on you last night (quite clearly scum oriented), what are all the people in other colleges doing besides explicitly going against what the rule says is the VC (i.e. why is there this armistice) and the scum happy in not killing anyone? Last night literally nothing happened, and I as a unaligned person I don't want to just give the scum a free pass to live as long as they fake act with their college.

I declined my random water college invite very early on n3 because I didn't want to go to a college where I had 0 AV and bother to spend the XP to raise that AV to go then kill other townies of the opposite college (pyromancer, I assume). I would rather spend that XP on DV and health as a unaligned, which payed off a tiny bit in a fire AV attack and certainly getting more and more health didn't hurt when mr. khaan's friends attacked me.

But I get confused when Mr water tincow (right, if I read things correctly?)

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

You killed the only man [head of waves] with decent taste in this college! DAMN YOU ALL!

If that's the case, it was probably an attempt to frame the Water College and incite strife.

I'd like to request that the entire town stop with all the probing attacks for at least a little while and instead put some effort into finding the scum. There will be plenty of time for us to eliminate our opponents later, but that really should be done after the scum are caught. If we try and obliterate each other now we'll just be handing them a win. Scum-hunting is difficult enough in a game like this with non-fatal attacks and lynchings and the major restrictions on out-of-thread communication. We stand the best chance if we keep to ourselves at night and focus on lynching with a decent number each day.

goes around calling the head of the fire college a "wrong" lynch. Even if there is desire for a peace treaty, surely a little benefit like that is encouraging for when people finally have to break the little feel-good non-aggression pact.

I know that many (khaan, atpg, tincow, etc) seem to be asking for the colleges to take a pause from killing people and 'focus' on scum, but from my memory there has been almost no indication of the coordinated/"Devastating" 3 or more person attacks from people-from-the-same-college that actually indicates any real effort to do damage. There never was a college war to begin with, and I can imagine the scum even pushing forward for such a little peace treaty and kill people like me.

I don't see why a bunch of college educated folks in atpg's air or the geodudes, etc are not following their VCs (as I understand it from the rules, not being a part of a college myself) and people affiliated with those colleges attacking clearly unaligned people i.e. me, if you recall:

I will confirm the attack on Kennegit [sic] came from my college.

but they don't work together (i.e. my attack was not enough damage to be a coordinated attack). I know atpg had the touchy feely good of "look at how the colleges worked together to get a scum! isn't that grrrrrreeeeeaaaattt!" when clearly there are scum amongst the colleges who aren't even that interested in killing people, and everyone else is doing half hearted 1 person attacks on people like me. Is everyone honestly that confident their college will be the final one standing?

i.e. I see almost nothing about the colleges being cleared of scums because with the colleges having a fake little temporary armistice, the scum will just go along with that armistice. This little "we'll 'clear' everyone in our college then kill noncollegites" is just going to get a person like me killed, while doing nothing to final scum. I don't want THAT to happen, since I want all the scum gone and not just purge out my own college of scum then cowboy on up to kill an enemy college.

This bsmith air business while not being air college makes sense, and that seems like a good case to me, but I'm quite worried about the delay in real scum hunting. For all we know the scum want to do some sort of timed vc, or were generating like +1 corruption a night with a little magic dagger or whatever and will reach some uber powerful super corrupt state where the town won't bring them down.

honestly I actually just don't know what the VC is for them is and at least 1 scums being quite content to sit around and not attack worries me, and such silly discussions about starting corruption is quite vain as the majority of living players started out "vanilla" with the scum amongst them, i.e. the scum would be mostly indistinguishable from the vanillas. Particularly since clearly some scum don't care about having an AV of 5 o 6 or whatever to kill, and some townies will start with 1 corruption.

tl;dr: the armistice will reach a nonprogress point that I believe is right now, kills time for the scum that could be getting stronger OR more importantly don't even have an eliminate victory condition, encourages people to invest in AV rather than DV for the final war and make it easier for the high AV scum to hide, and hypothetically I treat "anyone not following the town VC is going for a different VC" and that's kind of the whole principle of the armistice. You'll kill unaligned perfectly content townies like myself while 'clear' your own college, people who only got a single water college invite forever ago and didn't want to have a 0 av college, while the scum could work towards a non elimination VC or scale differently than townies

[Ferret]

So let me get this straight, you're saying that the colleges should all kill each other in case there are scum hiding in them, just so that unaligned townies won't be attacked? Seriously?

So far one person outside a college has been killed. That person was scum. There are at least three more scum still attacking, the college leaders seem to have a close eye on their members' night actions. Therefore I feel there is a fair chance of these three remaining scum being in the 'unaligned' category. Why would we ignore them?

If you're so scared of being collateral damage then you ought to accept any invitations that come your way from now on. There is no disadvantage whatsoever to having low stats in the element of your college, so if you're innocent you have nothing to lose.

[White_eyes:D]

The reason the unaligned scum are done for if they didn't join a college is....you get MUCH cheaper upgrades for that element. There is no reason not to join one, if you didn't, your gonna die a sad death.

Edit: I suspect the reason the scum didn't join a college, might have been to avoid the faction wars they suspected that would result. I think this truce is throwing them off big time.

[Kennigit]

So far one person outside a college has been killed. That person was scum. There are at least three more scum still attacking, the college leaders seem to have a close eye on their members' night actions. Therefore I feel there is a fair chance of these three remaining scum being in the 'unaligned' category. Why would we ignore them?

If you're so scared of being collateral damage then you ought to accept any invitations that come your way from now on. There is no disadvantage whatsoever to having low stats in the element of your college, so if you're innocent you have nothing to lose.

I think you misunderstand me, and it's pretty natural for the college people killed to be townies when 2/4 of the dead townies were head masters. I'm not saying don't ignore unaligned at all, just that I definitely think the current plan is "confirm my college, kill the rest". And I have serious doubts on how to confirm the people in your college, because "following the plan of the college" is not really clearing of anything imo. It clears them of being 3 attacking scum, and I believe with 2 scum teams there are more scum out there than 4 total in the game.

[TinCow]

There are at least 2 scum factions and it seems certainly one of them doesn't have the goal to simply kill everyone around.

I believe with 2 scum teams there are more scum out there than 4 total in the game.

Why do you think there are two scum teams?

[Visor]

Why do you think there are two scum teams?

OP?

[Ferret]

I think you misunderstand me, and it's pretty natural for the college people killed to be townies when 2/4 of the dead townies were head masters. I'm not saying don't ignore unaligned at all, just that I definitely think the current plan is "confirm my college, kill the rest". And I have serious doubts on how to confirm the people in your college, because "following the plan of the college" is not really clearing of anything imo. It clears them of being 3 attacking scum, and I believe with 2 scum teams there are more scum out there than 4 total in the game.

That would be a whole lot of scum. And why would the non-attacking scum just be sitting back? Sure they'll be getting more powerful with time but so will all the townies.

It's harder for scum to blend into colleges than you think, night attacks are monitored to make sure that the individual does not have a suspiciously high AV in any element, and corruption levels are possible to estimate from the write up. Okay so maybe there are some scum characters that have townie stats and are hiding in a college but there's no way to detect them and that is certainly no reason to stop going after the attacking scum, who are actively harming the town at the moment. We've killed one of them and have a reasonable case against BSmith.

It is not simply a case of kill everyone outside the colleges but considering that there are no disadvantages whatsoever for a townie to join a college it does make people look suspicious. When we back that suspicion up with more evidence why would we not go after them? I still don't understand what you are suggesting, do you want us to start lynching our own college members just in case they managed to slip through the tests? You're really not helping yourself here...

[TinCow]

I know that many (khaan, atpg, tincow, etc) seem to be asking for the colleges to take a pause from killing people and 'focus' on scum, but from my memory there has been almost no indication of the coordinated/"Devastating" 3 or more person attacks from people-from-the-same-college that actually indicates any real effort to do damage. There never was a college war to begin with, and I can imagine the scum even pushing forward for such a little peace treaty and kill people like me.

I called for an end to the probing attacks, I never claimed we were involved in all-out war. Probing attacks themselves don't do much damage on their own, but cumulatively they can start to hurt. My request was partially selfish, as I had been on the receiving end of two in a row at the time I made the request. In any case, your argument is ridiculous. College in-fighting weakens the town due to hp attrition. Scum don't get automatic kills in this game, and even unprotected people can survive scum attacks if they are sufficiently healthy. So, the more hp the town as a whole has, the harder it is for the scum to get kills. In addition, the starting heads of the colleges are guaranteed innocents. Attacks against them decrease the town's chances of eliminating the scum. While the colleges will inevitably have to fight it out, it's in our collective interests to postpone that fighting until the scum are eliminated, or at least significantly reduced.

Kudos on your attempt to get the town to kill each other.

FoS: Kennigit

[Askthepizzaguy]

I don't think I've ever seen Kennigit post a wall of words that size.

For his attempt to impersonatethepizzaguy, that earns him a raised eyebrow of tsk-tsk-ery.

[seireikhaan]

I admit I haven't been following the details of this game super close and am catching up mostly now, but I don't follow that or how in the past you said you are "98% certain" or whatever.

There are at least 2 scum factions and it seems certainly one of them doesn't have the goal to simply kill everyone around. In addition, I'm quite happy in asserting that the scum will happily go along with "let's not follow our VC of eliminating another college and simply stay alive guiz, this peace treaty is da best!". The scum can easily have items that make them scale faster than a townie (i.e. gain more XP or corruption), and giving more time before starting the college war disproportionately helps the scum.

Pretty simple. As I pointed out, we discussed the plans to protect me well ahead of time. I seriously doubt the scum would just go ahead and launch attacks against me anyways and waste their whole night phase. The 2% I mentioned earlier was basically a reference to the possibility that mechanics of the game worked differently than I and pretty much everyone else thought. Now, I think that's pretty irrelevent, for the logic I pointed out.

Now obviously protecting you worked tonight and is all good, but considering all the attacks have been stacked on you last night (quite clearly scum oriented), what are all the people in other colleges doing besides explicitly going against what the rule says is the VC (i.e. why is there this armistice) and the scum happy in not killing anyone? Last night literally nothing happened, and I as a unaligned person I don't want to just give the scum a free pass to live as long as they fake act with their college.

I declined my random water college invite very early on n3 because I didn't want to go to a college where I had 0 AV and bother to spend the XP to raise that AV to go then kill other townies of the opposite college (pyromancer, I assume). I would rather spend that XP on DV and health as a unaligned, which payed off a tiny bit in a fire AV attack and certainly getting more and more health didn't hurt when mr. khaan's friends attacked me.

My college was pretty visible last night. I took a look at Bsmith, and I got protected. The other folk, well, whatever they're doing is up to them. I can't PM anyone, so it's not like I can exactly try to coordinate very effectively without giving everything away. I ordered my original vig on you out of a hunch and lack of better things to do that night.
If you think I gave the folks in my school a free pass without doing my homework, you're quite mistaken. As for the other schools, well, that's up to them, I don't have the resources to do their job for them.

But I get confused when Mr water tincow (right, if I read things correctly?)

goes around calling the head of the fire college a "wrong" lynch. Even if there is desire for a peace treaty, surely a little benefit like that is encouraging for when people finally have to break the little feel-good non-aggression pact.

I know that many (khaan, atpg, tincow, etc) seem to be asking for the colleges to take a pause from killing people and 'focus' on scum, but from my memory there has been almost no indication of the coordinated/"Devastating" 3 or more person attacks from people-from-the-same-college that actually indicates any real effort to do damage. There never was a college war to begin with, and I can imagine the scum even pushing forward for such a little peace treaty and kill people like me.

I don't see why a bunch of college educated folks in atpg's air or the geodudes, etc are not following their VCs (as I understand it from the rules, not being a part of a college myself) and people affiliated with those colleges attacking clearly unaligned people i.e. me, if you recall:

Colleges have more victory conditions than beating the snot out of each other. Primarily, beating the scum. Lynching innocents doesn't really help with that. Also, not all colleges want all other colleges defeated.

but they don't work together (i.e. my attack was not enough damage to be a coordinated attack). I know atpg had the touchy feely good of "look at how the colleges worked together to get a scum! isn't that grrrrrreeeeeaaaattt!" when clearly there are scum amongst the colleges who aren't even that interested in killing people, and everyone else is doing half hearted 1 person attacks on people like me. Is everyone honestly that confident their college will be the final one standing?

i.e. I see almost nothing about the colleges being cleared of scums because with the colleges having a fake little temporary armistice, the scum will just go along with that armistice. This little "we'll 'clear' everyone in our college then kill noncollegites" is just going to get a person like me killed, while doing nothing to final scum. I don't want THAT to happen, since I want all the scum gone and not just purge out my own college of scum then cowboy on up to kill an enemy college.

Once again- I have ensured my college does not have scum. I can't ensure the same thing with the other schools, imo, but they have a better grasp of who's in and who's not, and dealing with them. I will do my best to help, but coordination is difficult when we're not allowed to pm. You trying to sow dissent and make us war with each other is... honestly the scummiest thing I've seen in a mafia game in a long, long time.

This bsmith air business while not being air college makes sense, and that seems like a good case to me, but I'm quite worried about the delay in real scum hunting. For all we know the scum want to do some sort of timed vc, or were generating like +1 corruption a night with a little magic dagger or whatever and will reach some uber powerful super corrupt state where the town won't bring them down.

Wait, what. This doesn't count as "real" scum hunting? What, pray tell, is? I investigated someone, and used my knowledge of game mechanics to determine that he's a pretty decent bet. You have a better idea?

honestly I actually just don't know what the VC is for them is and at least 1 scums being quite content to sit around and not attack worries me, and such silly discussions about starting corruption is quite vain as the majority of living players started out "vanilla" with the scum amongst them, i.e. the scum would be mostly indistinguishable from the vanillas. Particularly since clearly some scum don't care about having an AV of 5 o 6 or whatever to kill, and some townies will start with 1 corruption.

Pardon me? Are you insinuating that most people started with corruption? I'mma say "no" right now on that one. That's just untrue.

tl;dr: the armistice will reach a nonprogress point that I believe is right now, kills time for the scum that could be getting stronger OR more importantly don't even have an eliminate victory condition, encourages people to invest in AV rather than DV for the final war and make it easier for the high AV scum to hide, and hypothetically I treat "anyone not following the town VC is going for a different VC" and that's kind of the whole principle of the armistice. You'll kill unaligned perfectly content townies like myself while 'clear' your own college, people who only got a single water college invite forever ago and didn't want to have a 0 av college, while the scum could work towards a non elimination VC or scale differently than townies

IDEK

[Kennigit]

well visorslash claims to have started on corruption, I'm not trying to say "oh go kill each other" but what I'm trying to say is so many people have written off "my college scum free 100% yes-sir, no doubt in my mind, 100% clear!" and I don't follow that.