Which civilization has the best unit roster in your opinion.

[Catmand0]

As a follow up on my previous thread about who has the worst unit roster and inspired by Seleucid Empire's comment, I figured we should discuss this.

In my opinion, the Romani have the best unit roster. Not because they have truly exceptional units, but because they posses a flexibility and consistency not found in any other Civ. The Cohortes Reformata has the widest AOR in the game. In all of my other campaigns, I find myself getting weaker and weaker the further I get from my homeland area. With the romans, once one gets the marian reform, you have a constantly strong army that fairs well against just about everything, that can be retrained in most nearby controlled city. We all know that having to shlep your battered elite forces half way across the map is a royal pain the ass. Even with the comparably tiny size of their roster, the Romani can effectively supplement what ever their factional armies lack with regional forces and more often then not have enough money to hire mercenaries on the fly.

If we were to go with pure unit roster, then I would say the Seleucids, Carthaginians, and the Macedonians all have an edge.

[seleucid empire]

I agree with Carthage and Seleucids but I would probably take Macedonia off the list and replace them with Epirus. They have the same roster as macedonia except, Epirus gets thoratikai, elephants, and I personally prefer their molossan agema over the hetairoi of Macedonia. The only thing Epirus doesn't have are the reformed phalanxes of Macedonia which have a huge aor ( every single greek city on the map i believe?)

However I still prefer Epirus. Also in most h or VH campaigns the roman ai gets raped by lusos or epirus (unless you are playing with realistic movement, which means that they will dominate Europe 100% of the time) meaning that the Macedonian reforms won't happen anyway.

Rome has a strong roster but it is the units themselves that are strong and flexible, not the roster. Their lack of cavalry means that they will have a hard time facing the eastern superpowers of the ptolemies and Seleucids.

Historically they were stronger but in game, those phalanxes are really tough. Also sinc eit is an ai superpower they will have 50 stacks waiting for you (historically the Romans had far greater manpower reserves but in game this will not be the case)

[Catmand0]

With Roman units I feel that I can out maneuver phalanxes with ease. When I play as the romans, I generally have just one type of army that I build, 12 to 14 cohorts of heavy infantry(Cohortes Reformata or Prinipecs), 3-4 units of kreten archers, and the general plus additional 2-3 cav units.. That all being said, the Seleucids roster is so diverse, you can create many different armies for many different purposes.

[seleucid empire]

With Roman units I feel that I can out maneuver phalanxes with ease. When I play as the romans, I generally have just one type of army that I build, 12 to 14 cohorts of heavy infantry(Cohortes Reformata or Prinipecs), 3-4 units of kreten archers, and the general plus additional 2-3 cav units.. That all being said, the Seleucids roster is so diverse, you can create many different armies for many different purposes.

Yes it's quite diverse, although its not as diverse as you might think. Generally the only type of army you use is the phalanx based ones.

The only time I use non phalanx armies is when I'm short of troops or I create mercenary armies

With Carthage you can have phalanx armies, hoplite armies, heavy infantry armies or a mixture of the three (with assault infantry)

Still I like seleukids more, cause its got the strongest units in the game.

It has a larger variety of units but still only one type of army



Regarding the Romans, have you reached the east yet? Macedonia and Epirus tend to spam really weird units in their armies until they are richer. So you might not be facing the full might of phalanx nations. When you get to the east, you will face the infamous silvershild and klerouchi phalanghites spam. Then the casualties in each battle will begin to be felt. Romes cavalry roster is quite poor for most of the game. Mercenary cav isn't as good as the factional cav of most nations that field cavalry.

The best you can get is probably the Thessalian cavalry and those are barely a match for the prodomoi of the Hellenic kingdoms (unless they are using them really stupidly)

[seleucid empire]

I guess You can make thoratikai armies and light infantry armies as seleukids but they aren't as stable. The standard armies still have phalanxes as their core

With Carthage there are more options. Any one of their heavier units can be used as their army core

[Brave Brave Sir Robin]

Any of the Hellenistic factions (minus Makedonia) can make Thorakitai based armies. Use the Thoraks as your line units and Theurophoroi as medium reserve infantry. The Seleukids can do this best since they can recruit a wide array of light infantry types to complement the heavy spear line but the Epeirotes, Ptolemies and Baktrians can come close to matching them.

[Catmand0]

Regarding the Romans, have you reached the east yet? Macedonia and Epirus tend to spam really weird units in their armies until they are richer. So you might not be facing the full might of phalanx nations. When you get to the east, you will face the infamous silvershild and klerouchi phalanghites spam. Then the casualties in each battle will begin to be felt. Romes cavalry roster is quite poor for most of the game. Mercenary cav isn't as good as the factional cav of most nations that field cavalry.

The best you can get is probably the Thessalian cavalry and those are barely a match for the prodomoi of the Hellenic kingdoms (unless they are using them really stupidly)

I have gotten to the east several times. In my Romani Campaigns, I always wait until I get to the Marian Reform before I attack the ptolemy. I find that Cohortes Reformata, supported with a few Kreten Archers and Antesignani/regional or merc cav, does the trick against any spammed fullstack of elite phalanxes. Cohortes Reformata have enough armor and moral to pin down phalanxes and allow for a second unit to flank around. Phalanxes are easy to kill even if they are controlled by a human player IMO, it just takes some more involved micro managing. I can also afford to lose some men, considering that I always have a place close by to retrain them.

While I have enjoyed playing with some of the Phalanx heavy Hellenic civs, and have developed some quite deadly tactics with them, their lack of flexibility and uniformity annoys me. The Romani have the powerhouse heavy sword infantry of a Barbarian factions coupled with the discipline of the Hellenic factions that more than makes up for a lack of heavy cav IMO. While Carthage is an enjoyable campaign, and their military diverse and of good quality in addition to access to some fantastic regional troops, I dont feel like they really excels anywhere.

From your user name I would assume that you really like the Hellenic civs, especially the Seleucids. So I assume you have a very particular strategy that you are very good at based around fighting with phalanxes and super elite cavalry, which if executed right, can be unspeakably devastating. My tactics are based around heavy infantry with ranged support and a few cavalry to mop up routers and possibly to some routing charges. Both of these tactics are highly effective in their own way but has shaped what we think are the best units.

I think we should put our money where our mouths are and meet on the field of battle sometime to test our tactics on the matter.

[seleucid empire]

While Carthage is an enjoyable campaign, and their military diverse and of good quality in addition to access to some fantastic regional troops, I dont feel like they really excels anywhere.

From your user name I would assume that you really like the Hellenic civs, especially the Seleucids. So I assume you have a very particular strategy that you are very good at based around fighting with phalanxes and super elite cavalry, which if executed right, can be unspeakably devastating. My tactics are based around heavy infantry with ranged support and a few cavalry to mop up routers and possibly to some routing charges. Both of these tactics are highly effective in their own way but has shaped what we think are the best units.

I think we should put our money where our mouths are and meet on the field of battle sometime to test our tactics on the matter.

carthage excels at everything which is why i consider them dangerous

The thing that I like about phalanxes is Campaign durability. If I were playing against another player for only One battle I would much rather have Carthage or the Romans to be honest (and maybe 1-2 units of phalanxes since i found 1-2 units very effective in holding the elite units and since they dont make up your main battle line, your line will still be flexible). And also, I don't use as much elite heavy cavalry as most other players. I only really use 2 units of cavalry in my standard armies (either one light, one heavy or 2 medium) so In a way I play Hellenic factions the same way that you play Romans. I use infantry to do the work and my heavy only for the coup de grace. Its more effective that way.

I know this sounds like a weird tactic for a Hellenistic faction but I guarantee with enough practice, this method will work against any enemy (I first developed it fighting a steppe faction. Since they usually do a lot of damage even in defeat, I reformed my army and instead of standard infantry and cavalry, I used faster infantry and only one or two medium cavalry units. Also I find that now I am suffering far less casualties with a more balanced army.

The last time I played multi-player was over a year ago. I used to play with my friend but I have since deleted and reinstalled EB several times. I have forgotten how to set up multiplayer games (my current Eb cant play multiplayer). In those games I played with my friend tho, I lost whenever there was a Rome vs Seleukid clash or a Carthage vs Seleukid clash, although I did manage to best him Anything else vs. Seleukids

[kidpacific]

In my opinion, AS has the best roster; Cathage has the second best roster; Baktria has the third best roster.

[seleucid empire]

In my opinion, AS has the best roster; Cathage has the second best roster; Baktria has the third best roster.

Can I ask why you think Bactra is third?

Just curious cause I would usually put Dacia (mini AS) or Rome there

or epirus, they also have elephants. on top of that they have elite pikemen, agrianian assault infantry, the thracian roster and hellenic heavy skirmisher cavalry

[kidpacific]

Can I ask why you think Bactra is third?

Just curious cause I would usually put Dacia (mini AS) or Rome there

or epirus, they also have elephants. on top of that they have elite pikemen, agrianian assault infantry, the thracian roster and hellenic heavy skirmisher cavalry

Baktria has really powerful cavalry: shock cavalry (Cat without reform requirement and Cat elephant ), high-armor HA, FM bodyguard( Hetairio Cat is one of the best cavalries in the game, if not the best)

Compared with Epeiros, Baktria has much more better cavalry( better hammer), weaker phalanx( no elite phalanx, but most time the Pezhetairoi and the Thorakitai are tough enough for the line infantry, i.e., weaker but tough enough anvil ), Indian guild warrior as the assault infantry( the only very good stamina, fast moving, high-armor, high attack and ap attribute-infantry in the game), the Indian and Indian-Greek roster and the high armor Baktrioi Hippotoxotai.

Getai indeed has a good roster but the AOR(area of recruitment) is really limited, and i think the AOR is an important metric for unit, especially for line infantry. And for Bak, the AOR of the Hellenic Native Phalanx, the Pezhetairoi and the Thorakita are much more larger than the AOR of the Getai phalanx.

Roman infantries are really cheap and powerful, but they can't access to high-mass shock cavalry(Italic elite cavalry is good, but it's a medium cavalry after all) . And the unit roster is lack of diversity since most roles in the game is performed by the principles/Cohortes.