Quote Originally Posted by Sigurd View Post

And the light shineth in darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it.

You don't get my fruit vs. roots reference? HAVE you read you Bible at all?
Consider this:

Ye shall know them by their fruits

A well known scripture. Compare that to any other reference to fruit and fruit bearers and it is clear that Jesus wants his followers to look for the fruits, and not consider the obscurity where it was brought forth from. Hence.. fruits not roots.
It is a fallacy to judge a prophecy or a religious mission on the obscurity of the person/persons bringing it forth. And that is why when considering the life and acts of near all the church fathers, you'd find something to point to and COULD declare their message void, IF we went down that path.

If you want me to engage in a "the Bible can't be true because..." I would be not following the fruits vs. roots principle I just put forth.
BUT since I am not adhering to Christian teaching... I am not obliged to follow its "rules".

I would have asked which version of the Bible you considered most correct or true to the ... um original, and start from there.
what jesus is saying is, any true believer will produce good fruit, that you can tell who truly believes by there fruit not there words. Than this would be another case as to why islam is false, because of Muhammad fruit. Tell me about theses acts of the church fathers, please tell me about james peter paul and jesus, what did they do that was bad fruit? paul after conversion. The bible version I find most correct is, the original only. The original herbrew and greek.


Quote Originally Posted by komnenos View Post
Actually I have read all of Koran.It can seems true , but some things which I have read are not true.For example the events about dying of S.t Jesus. Also it force Muslims to attack non-Muslims whenever they can.( In other words: Jihad) And many other things. Am I right?
Yes I made a post on this on this thread, post 20 and 23.

Quote Originally Posted by Hax View Post
Firstly, it assumes that all Muslims interpret the Qur'an as you do. I don't think they do. The vast majority of the Muslims I know personally are more than willing to interpret these verses as being orders from God to Muhammad in a historical situation, a situation that has passed and is no longer relevant.

The problem with these discussions is that we equate our personal analysis of what the Qur'an says as how Muslims interpret their religion and thus how they should live. That decision is not at all ours to make.

We cannot speak of "Islam" as just being the Qur‘an and the Sunna. In order to correctly define Islam, we should look at the behaviour of people calling themselves Muslims.
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You are correct here,many Muslims [and christian] chose to inteprit passages as they may, but in the case with koran and Muhammad,we can see how Muhammad himself lived and understood these verses. As well as the earliest followers of islam. In fact even Muhammad said, later generations of Muslims would reject the proper understanding of the jihad/violent verses. That would be referenced in this debate I believe.
Nadir Ahmed vs. David Wood: "Does Islam Promote Violence Towards Non-Muslims?"
http://www.answeringmuslims.com/2011...oes-islam.html